[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis

[Anonymous]

One thing that I am very struck with is the overlap one finds in " things that are true" across various methods.

Take for example the chart below.

Notice that we have a valid High Close Doji pattern.

This pattern appears within the body of the WRB and the following Ultra Wide Spread bar with Ultra High volume. Take a look at the test bar.

VSA tells us that a test bar is when Professional Money "mark" prices down to see if there are is any supply (sellers). VSA, however, does not look at the open of the bar. But look at what we see if we do. First, we see that this bar is a doji. In candlestick terms this bar represents indecision. More over, the close on the top means price was rejected as it moved down. This is not unlike what VSA tells us.

When we look at the entire bar, what must be the way the bar played out? The bar opened up, went down and the price came up to close right where it opened. Clearly, we can see that Professional Money "marked-down" the price only to take it back up again. In this case, we have a "perfect" example of the true intentions of the Smart Money. If the open had been lower on the bar, we would of course still have a test, but the picture would be different. For example, if the open was at the low of the bar, we would still have a test, but we would not get a sense of the "mark-down".

Note that the other labeled test candle opens in the middle and closes on its high. We do see the action (mark down-price rejection) here as well.

To be clear, tests come in various forms and the key is the volume and the close. But some tests are more reliable than others. Volume plays a role here but so does the open. Tests that are also dojis tend to be the optimal type of tests. To those that use candles, this makes sense. Hammers with long shadows also make ideal test bars.

Two methods reaching like conclusions.

It should be pointed out that a test bar needs confirmation. Ideally that confirmation comes on the next bar with a close higher than the close of the close of the test bar. If that confirmation bar closes higher than the high of the test bar and it (the test bar) is a doji, well, now we have something..............

[ezduzzit]

	Quote:	dupaski
	I have a video of a presentation Williams and Krueger gave for the CBOT back in Sept. of '06 if anyone is interested. It's about 50 Meg so perhaps I can post it somewhere to make it available if there is any interest.

Hello Dupaski.. Have you found a place to upload the video above refrenced? I am sure there are some of us who would like to see it if you really don't mind going to the trouble to post it.

Also.. to PP... you once mentioned Joel Pozen with reference to VSA. I found out he does a mentoring program, but it certainly is not inexpensive at $4,000. Is he really that great a mentor or do you feel the key concepts can be learned by an experienced trader from intensive effort spent with the book and the bootcamp alone?

Do please keep this thread going. I find it to be one of the most interesting threads in the entire forum thus far.

Happy Trading

[Anonymous]

	Quote:	ezduzzit
	Also.. to PP... you once mentioned Joel Pozen with reference to VSA. I found out he does a mentoring program, but it certainly is not inexpensive at $4,000. Is he really that great a mentor or do you feel the key concepts can be learned by an experienced trader from intensive effort spent with the book and the bootcamp alone?

Thanks ezduzzit.

You asked about Joel Pozen. Your question uses the word mentor so my answer as it pertains to this is, I do not know. I have not taken his course and thus can not comment on his ability to teach what he knows, or in the overall course.

I have taken the free live demo a couple of times. It is clear to me that Joel posses an uncanny ability to "call" market direction based on reading the bars. After attending numerous webinars by Tradeguider, it is refreshing to see someone NOT dependant on "indicators" to read price and volume.

That is, Gavin, who does most of the non-software customer webinars, actually relies on trending systems and VSA indicators of the software to make trading decisions. Whereas Joel is looking at Volume, Price, Spread and Support and Resistance levels only. Joel does place a "dot" on all bars that have volume less than the previous two bars, but he is doing more CHART READING than signal waiting if you will. Nevertheless, I agree that the cost seems a bit high. I do recommend taking the demo if you have not. He is willing to share many insights during these free sessions and you can decide if it is a program worth pursuing.

If one buys the book and the bootcamp and puts in the time to learn the concepts, that is enough to create a solid understanding of many key VSA ideas.

Simply, the most cost effective way to learn is:

1. The Book ($100.00)
2. The bootcamp ($500.00)
3. Screen time
4. Webinars (free)- every now and then Gavin does provide useful pieces of information.
5. Screen time
6. Repeat

** unfortunately, if you buy the book and bootcamp and the foundations course and attend the upcoming live seminars, you will spend much more than a person that only buys the End Of Day version of the software. However, your money is not considered equal, and thus you will not be allowed into the customer only seminars held by Todd where advanced learning takes place. Go figure. **

Also that Weimar by Todd can be found on the CBOT website.

[cooter]

	Quote:	PivotProfiler
	Also that Weimar by Todd can be found on the CBOT website.

And here's the link:

CBOT - Detecting High Probability Turning Points Using Volume Spread Analysis

Enjoy...

[ezduzzit]

	Quote:	cooter
	And here's the link: CBOT - Detecting High Probability Turning Points Using Volume Spread Analysis Enjoy...

Thanks to both of you (Pivot and Cooter) for the info. I will attend Joel's live demo this coming Wednesday. I already went through the TG bootcamp a good while back and have reviewed the cd's of that program as well at home a couple of times.

I am afraid I have to agree 100% with your feelings about TG's current customer policies if you don't buy their software. But so be it, as I have seen their software and it really does not interest me. I do think that I will buy and study the book though, as I got a sense there were a large number of examles therein. I did read a tiny smattering of Richard Ney's stuff as well, which I found interesting but a bit hard to decipher at times. They could certainly stand some updating.

Thanks again to you two and all the other contributors here for a very interesting thread.

Happy Trading

[BlowFish]

	Quote:	PivotProfiler
	Thanks ezduzzit. Simply, the most cost effective way to learn is: 1. The Book ($100.00) 2. The bootcamp ($500.00) 3. Screen time 4. Webinars (free)- every now and then Gavin does provide useful pieces of information. 5. Screen time 6. Repeat

PP my question is about 2. Does it really add anything that is not in the book? I have no issue splurging $500 but to be honest the book (especially the MM one over the paper one) seems pretty much complete from a point of view of analysis.

What does the boot camp have that the book dosen't? Does it talk about actual trading (as oposed to analysis)? One nuance or subtlty learn't makes it worthwhile but I am a bit sceptical.

Without being disrespectful not sure about 4. Seems mainly a mechanism to sell the software.I understand that Todd was a trader but Gavin was an entrepeneur (outside the business) that bought into Tradeguider with a view to marketing it better. Again without being disrespectful it shows in his presentations.

Repeating 5 seems the most value (with a re read of 1 now and then).

Cheers.

[coyotte]

Browsed this thread , but haven't come across this query.

Have read "Master the Markets" but is TradeGuider worth the loot ?.
seems to me just eyeballing will do the same job

[momentom]

I received an email from TradeGuider offering a free download of Tom Williams book.

I took them up on it even though I have the hard copy. I needed to authenticate with the emal address they sent the offer to.

[Anonymous]

	Quote:	coyotte
	Browsed this thread , but haven't come across this query. Have read "Master the Markets" but is TradeGuider worth the loot ?. seems to me just eyeballing will do the same job

In a word, NO.

[Anonymous]

	Quote:	BlowFish
	PP my question is about 2. Does it really add anything that is not in the book? I have no issue splurging $500 but to be honest the book (especially the MM one over the paper one) seems pretty much complete from a point of view of analysis. What does the boot camp have that the book dosen't? Does it talk about actual trading (as oposed to analysis)? One nuance or subtlty learn't makes it worthwhile but I am a bit sceptical. Without being disrespectful not sure about 4. Seems mainly a mechanism to sell the software.I understand that Todd was a trader but Gavin was an entrepeneur (outside the business) that bought into Tradeguider with a view to marketing it better. Again without being disrespectful it shows in his presentations. Repeating 5 seems the most value (with a re read of 1 now and then). Cheers.

Todd recently called the webinars by Gavin "Sales Presentations" and his webinars to customers "Educational learning.."". I think that says it all. And is one of my primary reasons for being so disappointed with TG.

There was a time when a person could learn a lot of information from the free webinars held by Todd. Which was also the reason, so many software customers would attend. Now, however, Gavin is trying to hock software to the masses. He talks the "talk" about trading from price and volume and the perils of indicator trading, then proceeds to use indicators himself ( trading systems are indicators). He waits for the VSA signs and bars to change color before making trades. Simply, that is not reading a chart.

TG is a software product. But there is a viable method to reading the charts at its core. This method, Volume Spread Analysis, is all worth using and need not be tied up with the product itself.

As for the bootcamp, see above. Todd, one of the world's recognized leaders in VSA and Tom Williams, the creator of VSA, made the bootcamp. Could there be a better source to gleam some nuances? It brings some of the concepts of the book to life.