Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Do Or Die

Divergence Trading Strategy- Advanced

Recommended Posts

 

Hardly MM, I just feel that as long as I'm going to participate in these threads then its my obligation to help separate rumor/myth from fact...

 

Some of us here at TL actually want to help other traders, while others just want to show how smart they think they are...

 

BTW, Steve, I owe nothing in the form of proof to you. If you weren't so insolent, I'd provide the proof. I know that others believe me because of the quality of my work...

 

 

Phantom

Edited by phantom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hardly MM, I just feel that as long as I'm going to participate in these threads then its my obligation to help separate rumor/myth from fact...

 

Some of us here at TL actually want to help other traders, while others just want to show how smart they think they are...

 

Phantom

 

It's all good. In fact, a lot is learned when there is disagreement.

 

MM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1st insight - Retail traders like to pick tops and bottoms, as they perceive that is the way to make money. Problem is, the vast majority of retail traders lose.

 

2nd insight - The biggest problem with trading divergence signals, even if you manage to make some money from them, is that it puts you in a completely wrong state of mind. It causes your brain to be looking for reasons to go against the prevailing trend. Problem is, most of the money made in the markets are by trend followers. And if your brain is looking for divergences, it almost always will mean you are missing out on the much bigger trending moves. It will also result in you having many failed entries when divergence appears then vanishes due to the trend continuing, meaing you have just missed out on another trend move by trying to pick a reversal.

 

So for every profitable divergence signal someone can show me, I can show them 10 failed signals. That just isn't possible when it comes to taking trend signals. Divergence setups can be useful as exit points, but if you wish to discover TRUE divergence signals you need to analyse multiple timeframes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hardly MM, I just feel that as long as I'm going to participate in these threads then its my obligation to help separate rumor/myth from fact...

 

Some of us here at TL actually want to help other traders, while others just want to show how smart they think they are...

 

BTW, Steve, I owe nothing in the form of proof to you. If you weren't so insolent, I'd provide the proof. I know that others believe me because of the quality of my work...

 

 

Phantom

 

 

You've been asked before (by others) to provide backtest data and you declined

 

Get your story straight princess.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
...If Do or Die is willing to do the research and collect the data necessary to prove his point, I applaud that....

 

Hi Steve,

 

I thought that was the purpose for this thread...Do or Die is giving real-time trade signals on the research and data he's collected so far. Simply, you guys need to allow the thread to continue and develop and stop debating with the results so far that have overall been profitable.

 

Thus, wait until the thread has concluded and then cast your stones because debating with someone that has shown real-time profitable results so far doesn't make any sense to me unless the purpose is to try to discourage or derail the thread.

 

1st insight - Retail traders like to pick tops and bottoms, as they perceive that is the way to make money. Problem is, the vast majority of retail traders lose.

 

2nd insight - The biggest problem with trading divergence signals, even if you manage to make some money from them, is that it puts you in a completely wrong state of mind. It causes your brain to be looking for reasons to go against the prevailing trend. Problem is, most of the money made in the markets are by trend followers. And if your brain is looking for divergences, it almost always will mean you are missing out on the much bigger trending moves. It will also result in you having many failed entries when divergence appears then vanishes due to the trend continuing, meaing you have just missed out on another trend move by trying to pick a reversal.

 

So for every profitable divergence signal someone can show me, I can show them 10 failed signals. That just isn't possible when it comes to taking trend signals. Divergence setups can be useful as exit points, but if you wish to discover TRUE divergence signals you need to analyse multiple timeframes.

 

Hi Adrian,

 

I don't know what your experience is with divergence trading but let me enlighten you with some facts.

 

  • You can get divergence signals as range price action, counter-trend price action or as trend continuation price action. Most traders are brainwash into looking for or believing the only types of divergence are the counter-trend price action.
     
     
  • There are countless types of divergence methods based upon indicators or based upon price action only (no indicators).

I personally know traders that are retail and institutional using divergence signals profitably. Yet, like the few profitable traders out there, they have a good trading plan and divergence signals is just one chapter in their trading book amongst other chapters like risk management, trade management, position size management, proper capitalization, good research tools et cetera.

 

My point is that you've only mentioned divergence signals as counter-trend signals...that's evidence to me that you've had a limited exposure to divergence signals. Thus, you guys really need to think outside the box or at least realize that your experience level is still developing and that you do not know everything.

 

Simply, you don't know everything concerning what profitable traders are doing and you should show some humility when someone starts a thread that post real-time trade signals that have overall been profitable so far.

 

In my +20 years of trading, if there's one thing I've learn is to never debate with a profitable trader real-money or simulator about his/her trade method. Instead, I've learned to ask questions about what he/she is doing so that I can better myself as a trader.

Edited by wrbtrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can get divergence signals as range price action, counter-trend price action or as trend continuation price action.

 

Hi, I've written pages of explanation for all this using charts, examples and what not. In the real world people have have monster ego, they will hate if someone is using a tool profitably via which they have lost money.

 

Edit: You might also remember whose d*** is bigger contest, which brought a major change in TL.

Edited by Do Or Die

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@wrbtrader I am fully aware of regular versus hidden divergence. Trading hidden divergence is TREND TRADING. So it isn't really divergence except in the minor sense, and certainly nothing wrong with taking those signals. I've really no idea what type of divergence DOD is taking. I only see endless lists of stock symbols which really mean nothing to me. I'm assuming it is regular divergence.

 

If 'advanced' in this thread is referring to hidden divergence, then I have seen little discussion on it so far. If it is referring to trying to pick the ends of trends then it is standard divergence, and only a tiny % of people trying to use it succeed, and any money they make will be small. And even more so when compared with all the lost opportunity from missed trends they didn't trade due to trying to pick the turning point.

 

The facts are that the money is made in the trend. That is 100% fact. Now what one person might think is just range trading , is in fact multiple trends to someone else. And if a new trend materialises after a divergence, then the trend trader will still have an excellent chance of getting on board anyway, and make much the same money as a divergence trader. Except the trend trader won't have all the false divergence losses from prior to the turn, but instead wil have multiple closed out profits from each of those prior trend moves. Its simple maths really.

 

As I said previously, the beginner wants to put their ego on the line and try to pick turns. They think that is what trading is all about. They want to be able to brag to their friends they sold the high of a move. They won't tel you of course how many goes they had all the way up. Meanwhile, the professional is happy to just take out 30-60% of each trend move, and leave the turns to the mugs.

 

I will say though, that virtually every trend ends in divergence, but you will need to look at many different time frames to find it. And even when you do find it, you will still need to be able to tell the difference beetween false divergence and real divergence. The former occur many times more often than the latter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@DOD Just out of curiosity, on what time frame are all these trades being taken? I'm just looking at FLs for example.

 

Is that an end of day based signal?

Why did you go short at 97.46? Beyond just saying there was divergence.

Why put the stop only above the high of yesterday? Isn't that rather close?

Why did you enter so far from the recent high when daily divergence occurred days before?

What sized move are you trading for? A couple of days or trading for a new trend?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
@DOD Just out of curiosity, on what time frame are all these trades being taken? I'm just looking at FLs for example.

 

Is that an end of day based signal?

Why did you go short at 97.46? Beyond just saying there was divergence.

Why put the stop only above the high of yesterday? Isn't that rather close?

Why did you enter so far from the recent high when daily divergence occurred days before?

What sized move are you trading for? A couple of days or trading for a new trend?

 

Read here: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/technical-analysis/11510-divergence-study-discussion.html#post134430 Let me know which questions are yet unanswered.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update:

Open Positions:

-SLB(75.16), +PCP(155.66), -ABT(54.65), -FDX(84.50), -FLS(97.46)

 

Closed Positions:

DGX(+2.3%), AET(+3.3%), ETN(+8.2%), EOG (+0.8%), CMS(+0.6%), NSC(+1.6%), VRSN(-0.7%), FDX(+1.5%)

(Bought after gap up) RL(-2.5%), WLP(-1.8%), ZION(-1.3%), EXPD(-1.5%), HES(-2.1%)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update:

 

Open Positions:

+PCP(155.66), -ABT(54.65), -FDX(84.50),

Edit: Moving stop for ABT to 55.01

 

Closed Positions:

DGX(+2.3%), AET(+3.3%), ETN(+8.2%), EOG (+0.8%), CMS(+0.6%), NSC(+1.6%), VRSN(-0.7%), FDX(+1.5%), SLB(+9.5%), FLS(+2.4%)

(Bought after gap up) RL(-2.5%), WLP(-1.8%), ZION(-1.3%), EXPD(-1.5%), HES(-2.1%)

 

IMP: These signals are for discussion purpose only. Trade at your own risk

Edited by Do Or Die

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Buy Triggered ZION (15.41), Buy on WLP if it crosses 65.60

 

Exit FDX during last 15 minutes if it's trading above 83.90

Exit PCP during last 15 minutes if it's trading below 160

 

IMP: These signals are for information & discussion purpose only. Trade at your own risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey DoD,

 

Out of interest, whats the % p&L of the strategy (even if it's a theoretical/paper one). Does is disprove your detractors?

 

Just out of interest mind you - as we all know, management can make a big difference, and can be used to explain results either way. Forget I asked.

 

Doh!

 

 

Cheers,

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Overall in some profit, so maybe yes it disapproves them.

 

If they are willing to forgive my one screwup, it has beaten my personal expectation :)

 

Update:

 

Open Positions:

+PCP(155.66), -ABT(54.65), -FDX(84.50),

Edit: Moving stop for ABT to 55.01

 

Closed Positions:

DGX(+2.3%), AET(+3.3%), ETN(+8.2%), EOG (+0.8%), CMS(+0.6%), NSC(+1.6%), VRSN(-0.7%), FDX(+1.5%), SLB(+9.5%), FLS(+2.4%)

(Bought after gap up) RL(-2.5%), WLP(-1.8%), ZION(-1.3%), EXPD(-1.5%), HES(-2.1%)

 

IMP: These signals are for discussion purpose only. Trade at your own risk

 

...

I made a mistake in yesterday scan, these stocks were supposed to be bought yesterday mid-day, nevermind.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Update

 

Open Positions:

+PCP(155.66), +ZION(15.41), +TSO(22.40), +WLP(65.61)

 

Closed Positions:

DGX(+2.3%), AET(+3.3%), ETN(+8.2%), EOG (+0.8%), CMS(+0.6%), NSC(+1.6%), VRSN(-0.7%), FDX(+1.5%), SLB(+9.5%), FLS(-2.4%), ABT(-0.6%), FDX(+0.6%),

(Bought after gap up) RL(-2.5%), WLP(-1.8%), ZION(-1.3%), EXPD(-1.5%), HES(-2.1%)

 

For Strategy Rules follow: Divergence Strategy- Discussion

IMP: These signals are for discussion purpose only. Trade at your own risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

Is it possible for you to also show total percentage gain/loss and/or total dollar (points) gain/loss that have been accumulated to go along with the individual stock results. Info that's easily obtained from a spreadsheet or broker statement (real or simulator).

 

Update

 

Open Positions:

+PCP(155.66), +ZION(15.41), +TSO(22.40), +WLP(65.61)

 

Closed Positions:

DGX(+2.3%), AET(+3.3%), ETN(+8.2%), EOG (+0.8%), CMS(+0.6%), NSC(+1.6%), VRSN(-0.7%), FDX(+1.5%), SLB(+9.5%), FLS(-2.4%), ABT(-0.6%), FDX(+0.6%),

(Bought after gap up) RL(-2.5%), WLP(-1.8%), ZION(-1.3%), EXPD(-1.5%), HES(-2.1%)

 

For Strategy Rules follow: Divergence Strategy- Discussion

IMP: These signals are for discussion purpose only. Trade at your own risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Similar Content

    • By millonmethod
      Hello everyone!
      I am an advanced trader, with many years of experience (about 15 years - 10 living exclusively from this)
      I am going to give you some tips that you must know:
      There are going to be many people who tell you that trade is easy, that with only crossiing a line  with another one you will win a lot of money.... and that´s not true.  No, Sir, reality is far away from that. Many people who start arrive here with the hope that someone "gives them" a free method, they watch youtube videos thinking that this will give them the "strategy" and in a few days they realize that it does not work for them - they lose money - and then They go looking for a new one ... and so on. YES, IT´S TRUE YOU EARN IN TRADING, A LOT. BUT THINK: for a few to win (10% + any BROKER) many others must lose (90% people). YOU MUST HAVE A MONEY MANAGMENT FORMULA ( you can email me) People study so many years to live on this, not because they are dumb, but to know what they do, when, and have absolute effectiveness. It´s very easy to get lost here: do not disperse, jumping from one to another strategy WILL NEVER give you money, it will only waste your time and make you nervous when trading. PEOPLE WHO CHANGE THEIR METHOD CONSTANTLY : LOOOOSE ALWAYS.   If you have the knowledge to develop it, take your time and do it.  Always try it first on DEMO for at least 2 weeks! If not: search to buy a solid strategy (no you tube videos pleassse ! Avoid losing money! ) This is like any business, it requires some capital to start (capital = money in the broker + solid made /purchased strategy) If you are lost: I RECOMMEND YOU NOT TO WASTE TIME IN YOUTUBE, JOIN PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCE AND IF YOU ARE GOING TO BUY A METHOD ... PLEASE !!!! DO NOT BUY 10 BAD AND CHEAP METHODS, SAVE MONEY AND BUY ONLY 1 BUT EXCLUSIVE AND MUST ALLWAYS HAVE SUPPORT !!!!!  Do not buy Signals! They never keep up with constant profits! One week will win and the next will lose. Nothing that does not depend absolutely on you will give you the money you are looking for. And if you do not have a strategy (made or purchased) do not even try PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE: DO NOT USE REAL MONEY! AT LEAST 2 WEEK DEMO FREE HELP HERE!!!!!  IF YOU FOLLOW MY ADVICE YOU WILL BE PART OF THAT 10% WINNER, email me.
      Have a nice trading day
       
       
  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 11th July 2025.   Demand For Gold Rises As Trump Announces Tariffs!   Gold prices rose significantly throughout the week as investors took advantage of the 2.50% lower entry level. Investors also return to the safe-haven asset as the US trade policy continues to escalate. As a result, investors are taking a more dovish tone. The ‘risk-off’ appetite is also something which can be seen within the stock market. The NASDAQ on Thursday took a 0.90% dive within only 30 minutes.   Trade Tensions Escalate President Trump has been teasing with new tariffs throughout the week. However, the tariffs were confirmed on Thursday. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports starting August 1st, along with 50% tariffs on copper and goods from Brazil. Some experts are advising that Brazil has been specifically targeted due to its association with the BRICS.   However, the President has not directly associated the tariffs with BRICS yet. According to President Trump, Brazil is targeting US technology companies and carrying out a ‘witch hunt’against former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, a close ally who is currently facing prosecution for allegedly attempting to overturn the 2022 Brazilian election.   Although Brazil is one of the largest and fastest-growing economies in the Americas, it is not the main concern for investors. Investors are more concerned about Tariffs on Canada. The White House said it will impose a 35% tariff on Canadian imports, effective August 1st, raised from the earlier 25% rate. This covers most goods, with exceptions under USMCA and exemptions for Canadian companies producing within the US.   It is also vital for investors to note that Canada is among the US;’s top 3 trading partners. The increase was justified by Trump citing issues like the trade deficit, Canada’s handling of fentanyl trafficking, and perceived unfair trade practices.   The President is also threatening new measures against the EU. These moves caused US and European stock futures to fall nearly 1%, while the Dollar rose and commodity prices saw small gains. However, the main benefactor was Silver and Gold, which are the two best-performing metals of the day.   How Will The Fed Impact Gold? The FOMC indicated that the number of members warming up to the idea of interest rate cuts is increasing. If the Fed takes a dovish tone, the price of Gold may further rise. In the meantime, the President pushing for a 3% rate cut sparked talk of a more dovish Fed nominee next year and raised worries about future inflation.   Meanwhile, jobless claims dropped for the fourth straight week, coming in better than expected and supporting the view that the labour market remains strong after last week’s solid payroll report. Markets still expect two rate cuts this year, but rate futures show most investors see no change at the next Fed meeting. Gold is expected to finish the week mostly flat.       Gold 15-Minute Chart     If the price of Gold increases above $3,337.50, buy signals are likely to materialise again. However, the price is currently retracing, meaning traders are likely to wait for regained momentum before entering further buy trades. According to HSBC, they expect an average price of $3,215 in 2025 (up from $3,015) and $3,125 in 2026, with projections showing a volatile range between $3,100 and $3,600   Key Takeaway Points: Gold Rises on Safe-Haven Demand. Gold gained as investors reacted to rising trade tensions and market volatility. Canada Tariffs Spark Concern. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports drew attention due to Canada’s key trade role. Fed Dovish Shift Supports Gold. Growing expectations of rate cuts and Trump’s push for a 3% cut boosted the gold outlook. Gold Eyes Breakout Above $3,337.5. Price is consolidating; a move above $3,337.50 could trigger new buy signals. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Back in the early 2000s, Netflix mailed DVDs to subscribers.   It wasn’t sexy—but it was smart. No late fees. No driving to Blockbuster.   People subscribed because they were lazy. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone else is lazy too.   Those who saw the future in that red envelope? They could’ve caught a 10,000%+ move.   Another story…   Back in the mid-2000s, Amazon launched Prime.   It wasn’t flashy—but it was fast.   Free two-day shipping. No minimums. No hassle.   People subscribed because they were impatient. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone hates waiting.   Those who saw the future in that speedy little yellow button? They could’ve caught another 10,000%+ move.   Finally…   Back in 2011, Bitcoin was trading under $10.   It wasn’t regulated—but it worked.   No bank. No middleman. Just wallet to wallet.   People used it to send money. Investors bought it because they saw the potential.   Those who saw something glimmering in that strange orange coin? They could’ve caught a 100,000%+ move.   The people who made those calls weren’t fortune tellers. They just noticed something simple before others did.   A better way. A quiet shift. A small edge. An asymmetric bet.   The red envelope fixed late fees. The yellow button fixed waiting. The orange coin gave billions a choice.   Of course, these types of gains are rare. And they happen only once in a blue moon. That’s exactly why it’s important to notice when the conditions start to look familiar.   Not after the move. Not once it's on CNBC. But in the quiet build-up— before the surface breaks.   Enter the Blue Button Please read more here: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/netflix-amazon-bitcoin-blue  Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • What These Attacks Look Like There are several ways you could get hacked. And the threats compound by the day.   Here’s a quick rundown:   Phishing: Fake emails from your “bank.” Click the link, give your password—game over.   Ransomware: Malware that locks your files and demands crypto. Pay up, or it’s gone.   DDoS: Overwhelm a website with traffic until it crashes. Like 10,000 bots blocking the door. Often used by nations.   Man-in-the-Middle: Hackers intercept your messages on public WiFi and read or change them.   Social Engineering: Hackers pose as IT or drop infected USB drives labeled “Payroll.”   You don’t need to be “important” to be a target.   You just need to be online.   What You Can Do (Without Buying a Bunker) You don’t have to be tech-savvy.   You just need to stop being low-hanging fruit.   Here’s how:   Use a YubiKey (physical passkey device) or Authenticator app – Ditch text message 2FA. SIM swaps are real. Hackers often have people on the inside at telecom companies.   Use a password manager (with Yubikey) – One unique password per account. Stop using your dog’s name.   Update your devices – Those annoying updates patch real security holes. Use them.   Back up your files – If ransomware hits, you don’t want your important documents held hostage.   Avoid public WiFi for sensitive stuff – Or use a VPN.   Think before you click – Emails that feel “urgent” are often fake. Go to the websites manually for confirmation.   Consider Starlink in case the internet goes down – I think it’s time for me to make the leap. Don’t Panic. Prepare. (Then Invest.)   I spent an hour in that basement bar reading about cyberattacks—and watching real-world systems fall apart like dominos.   The internet going down used to be an inconvenience. Now, it’s a warning.   Cyberwar isn’t coming. It’s here.   And the next time your internet goes out, it might not just be your router.   Don’t panic. Prepare.   And maybe keep a backup plan in your back pocket. Like a local basement bar with good bourbon—and working WiFi.   As usual, we’re on the lookout for more opportunities in cybersecurity. Stay tuned.   Author: Chris Campbell (AltucherConfidential) Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • DUMBSHELL:  re the automation of corruption ---  200,000 "Science Papers" in academic journal database PubMed may have been AI-generated with errors, hallucinations and false sourcing 
    • Does any crypto exchanges get banned in your country? How's about other as Bybit, Kraken, MEXC, OKX?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.