Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

MadMarketScientist

Who Makes More Money?

Who Is More Profitable?  

46 members have voted

  1. 1. Who Is More Profitable?

    • Short term trading (shorter time frames, scalping)
      73
    • Long term trading (longer time frames, swinging)
      93
    • Investing (Warren Buffett style)
      36


Recommended Posts

And eventually the discussion lead to why one was better\different than the other ... and hopefully you remembered that lesson the next time you were on the field. And don't you have fond memories of being a kid? Growing up sometimes sucks doesn't it?

 

MMS

 

Growing up does indeed suck in many ways. And it's bloody difficult. It does have its advantages, though.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The best of the best ( Buffet, Soros, and similar) make on the average 25-35% per year over long term ( over their life time as traders). You have to keep that in mind when some claim 100% or more return, bcos it is not going to last ( if it is even true). Anyone can have a good run, for a while and project that long term, but it is not realistic.

 

Just imagine if you can do 500% a year... In short time you would be able to buy universe thanks to compounding effect :)

 

Nope.

 

I think burn out or boredom is the reason most successful scalpers quit after a while - assuming they are ahead. When you've got a millions, why sit behind the screen all day? The real big hitters I know who made their money scalping either position trade now, set up prop firms or go into private equity, set up funds etc.

 

And of course, you cant compound continually as you suggest scalping - or any kind of trading as you reach liquidity issues in any market.

 

You simply cant compare a successful scalper like Rotter et al with Buffett. One is a trader, the other owns a conglomerate thats mostly involved in insurance and also happens to own some shares.

 

Neither can you compare a trader with a hedge fund. It's just daft. HF's have regulations etc they must abide by. Independent traders dont. They can do what they like. The trader will have less than a mil in his account and can make that into another mil fairly quickly in one or 2 markets making quick decisions. The HF may have billions, and has to think about liquidity, diversification, AND regulation. HF's also need to appear as being very complex and sophisticated in what they do to justify fees and attract investment. The more of a dark art it looks the better. HF needs a smooth equity curve, nice sharp ratio's etc.

Edited by TheDude

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And eventually the discussion lead to why one was better\different than the other ... and hopefully you remembered that lesson the next time you were on the field. And don't you have fond memories of being a kid? Growing up sometimes sucks doesn't it?

 

MMS

 

Are you kidding? Being a kid was great. I can go on and on about the fun I had and the shit I was able to get away with, but being an adult is so much better. As kids we had limited mobility, legal restrictions, difficulty attaining money to buy things, lack of knowledge, etc.

 

Oh my God all the mistakes that I made that I do not make anymore. It isn't that I don't make mistakes because i certainly do, but I don't make the same dumb mistakes that I used to make over and over again as I did when I was younger; younger includes anything up to yesterday.

 

I welcome the future with arms wide open for anything I can do with it, but you would have to drag me kicking and screaming to go back through the years of my youth knowing that I would make similar mistakes again.

 

The guys that make the most money are the guys that trade long term trends, know how to trade trends, and are trading trends in a period of time when there are are long term trends and quit at or about the time that markets stop trending. If they remain humble they can walk away with a lot of money. The guys that believe that they have something to do with it, get lacerated and even end up bankrupt.

 

Read Market Wizards and do follow up research on the individuals who are profiled to come up with your own conclusion.

 

No comment on swing traders with big stops

 

No comment on scalpers

 

Soros and Buffet do not average 35% a year. I have no idea where that information came from. Maybe about 10-12% and that is just maybe.

 

Soros had one of the single largest trading loses ever recorded.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
And eventually the discussion lead to ....

........ more grown up thoughts like how and what I am doing and not concern myself about what others are up to - especially others that haven't a chance (bankroll) of emulating.

 

Kardashianism.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Never said that .

 

never said you did.....only a grumpy old man might think that :) but i can understand how you might draw that from my reply - not intended.....the limiting power of textual discussions.

 

more along the lines of there are some nice things about being a kid, we should not throw those things out, and plus too many grumpy old men with flawed memories.

you know the ones - 'back in my day......'

or 'my schooldays where the best years of my life......'

 

anyways - how did we get onto kids - how do they make the most money....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Are you kidding? Being a kid was great. I can go on and on about the fun I had and the shit I was able to get away with, but being an adult is so much better. As kids we had limited mobility, legal restrictions, difficulty attaining money to buy things, lack of knowledge, etc.

 

Oh my God all the mistakes that I made that I do not make anymore. It isn't that I don't make mistakes because i certainly do, but I don't make the same dumb mistakes that I used to make over and over again as I did when I was younger; younger includes anything up to yesterday.

 

I welcome the future with arms wide open for anything I can do with it, but you would have to drag me kicking and screaming to go back through the years of my youth knowing that I would make similar mistakes again.

 

The guys that make the most money are the guys that trade long term trends, know how to trade trends, and are trading trends in a period of time when there are are long term trends and quit at or about the time that markets stop trending. If they remain humble they can walk away with a lot of money. The guys that believe that they have something to do with it, get lacerated and even end up bankrupt.

 

Read Market Wizards and do follow up research on the individuals who are profiled to come up with your own conclusion.

 

No comment on swing traders with big stops

 

No comment on scalpers

 

Soros and Buffet do not average 35% a year. I have no idea where that information came from. Maybe about 10-12% and that is just maybe.

 

Soros had one of the single largest trading loses ever recorded.

 

When I was a kid, I remember being able to piss really high into the air. My mates at school would see who could stand furthest back from the urinal and still hit it.

 

Looking back, I feel real sorry for the janitor having to mop up all that piss from 7 year olds.

 

:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Major diference between Rich and Poor people is PATIENCE.

Rich people understand that making 20% a month is nonsence, so the are patient to Invest for 1% to 3% a month, and it's plenty.

While poor people are not satisfied with that, they want 100% a month, so risks they take are unbelievable and the end up with no money at all. So they stay POOR.

 

So scalpers are either Smart or Rich people, probably RICH.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Nope.

 

I think burn out or boredom is the reason most successful scalpers quit after a while - assuming they are ahead. When you've got a millions, why sit behind the screen all day? The real big hitters I know who made their money scalping either position trade now, set up prop firms or go into private equity, set up funds etc.

 

And of course, you cant compound continually as you suggest scalping - or any kind of trading as you reach liquidity issues in any market. .

 

A very good profit re liquidity - but that becomes any issue once you want to trade many lots at a time - but well, that's the point in time when you need to set up a HFT model - which in turn becomes position trading on a short timeframe.

 

But before I'm there, I think scalping can be a very quick launchpad to big big profits from starting small and compounding when done right.

 

BTW, I read a good article on FuturesMag last year (couldn't find it just now), but ir proved mathematically with formulas etc that the most profitable approach is part-scalp, part-swing, i.e. enter as a scalper with minimal stop loss, exist the scalp position (which may vary depending on immediate market conditions - range or trend) after the one directional move scalp target, set to break even and swing the rest. Imho this is the best approach to day trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The question needs refining to be more relevant to most of the members of TL. I doubt if anyone here has Buffett-like money and some of us don't have 50 years to compound.

 

It seems to me that imbedded within the original question was the assumption that the trader's account size afforded him/her the choice of trading style. An account of $150 billion leaves but one choice. In addition, for a trader who is 60 years old, long term investing does not allow them many years left to enjoy their success.

 

With that, how about refining the question to something like: assuming competency, who makes more money over a 5 year (or 10 year) period starting with a $50,000 account, the scalper, the swing trader, or the investor?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I just saw on the news that Burlington Northern (Warren bought it recently) projects oil shipments by rail will be up 40% in 2013. My first thought was, "don't they ship that stuff by pipeline". Then I remembered the Keystone pipeline. Enough said.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just saw on the news that Burlington Northern (Warren bought it recently) projects oil shipments by rail will be up 40% in 2013. My first thought was, "don't they ship that stuff by pipeline". Then I remembered the Keystone pipeline. Enough said.

Too much.

 

Or not much - to do with this subject.

 

But BTW Keystone was for Canadian oil. NB is hauling shale rock oil from areas where there is rail, but no pipeline.

 

Anyway anyone who thinks Warren Buffett makes money from trading. The real money he makes is from his "bread and butter" - insurance. License to print money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Too much.

 

Or not much - to do with this subject.

 

But BTW Keystone was for Canadian oil. NB is hauling shale rock oil from areas where there is rail, but no pipeline.

 

Anyway anyone who thinks Warren Buffett makes money from trading. The real money he makes is from his "bread and butter" - insurance. License to print money.

 

I just got an email. The web version is here.

Could THIS Man Kill TransCanada's Pipeline?

 

When someone asks how Warren Buffet makes his money I think it IS appropriate to discuss it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I just got an email..

 

You can make it what you want but the question was not how, but who is the most profitable.

 

Read the first post again.

 

Buffett still makes MOST of his money from hawking insurance and re-insurance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can make it what you want but the question was not how, but who is the most profitable.

 

Read the first post again.

 

Buffett still makes MOST of his money from hawking insurance and re-insurance.

I thought TL existed to discuss how. Unbelievable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I thought TL existed to discuss how. Unbelievable.

Believe this, you obviously didn't read the first post either.

 

And yes I am the ultimate ruler of TL and you can't say how.

 

Duh!

 

Obviously in discussing who or what style makes the most money one can say it came from this or that. But does everything and every subject have to have a political spin on it?

 

I respect Buffett and anyone else who makes it big even though he is a bit hypocritical. Taking subsidies, tax breaks etc. but then saying he doesn't get taxed high enough.

 

I happen to have 2 cousins that work in the oil exploration industry. And from what I have discussed with them and read in the news many new areas where there is drilling (frack-oil) do not have pipeland infrastrure available but do have rail lines.

 

So what do you, Buffett's company own a rail company. And maybe he bought it for that reason. He is also a large McDonald and Coca-Cola shareholder. I guess he is responsible for much of America having fat-azz asses too.

 

What else can we rant about the man?

 

Which in the end has just about nothing to do with "Who Makes More Money?'

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You can make it what you want but the question was not how, but who is the most profitable.

 

Read the first post again.

 

Buffett still makes MOST of his money from hawking insurance and re-insurance.

 

selling insurance and reinsurance is a trade isn't it? Same thing, almost as options.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
selling insurance and reinsurance is a trade isn't it? Same thing, almost as options.

 

True but then just about anything could be considered trading then.

 

As you know a worker trades his labor for pay etc.etc.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Major diference between Rich and Poor people is PATIENCE.

Rich people understand that making 20% a month is nonsence, so the are patient to Invest for 1% to 3% a month, and it's plenty.

While poor people are not satisfied with that, they want 100% a month, so risks they take are unbelievable and the end up with no money at all. So they stay POOR.

 

So scalpers are either Smart or Rich people, probably RICH.

 

Not necessarily ,the more you trade the more are the chances that'll u'll make losing trades ..my personal psychology is to trade less but trade only when u are sure abt it....scalping is just a miss or hit game which cant make people the ones that are on the Forbes list...Those who became rich invested only in the things they were sure of making profits (though there is no holy grail but there is a big % success chance on thoroughly researched trades)..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • $VKTX Viking Therapeutics stock attempting to move higher off the 64.24 support area, volume 47% above normal, https://stockconsultant.com/?VKTX
    • Date: 26th April 2024. Alphabet Easily Beat Earnings Predictions But Focus Shifts to Today’s PCE Data. Microsoft and Alphabet’s earnings reports beat expectations pushing the NASDAQ to the top of the charts. The Bank of Japan keep interest rates unchanged applying pressure on the Japanese Yen. The Yen Index declines 0.36% and is down 40% against the USD over the past 5 years. The US GDP growth rate falls below its 2.5% expectations, reading 1.6%, but economists advise the Fed may only cut once in 2024! The market turns its attention to the Core PCE Price Index which analysts expect to fall from 2.8% to 2.6%. USA100 – Alphabet Easily Beat Analysts’ Earnings Predictions and Sees its P/E Ratio Fall! The price of the NASDAQ ended the day higher and rose to a slightly higher high. As a result, the index is close to forming a traditional bullish trend and making Wednesday’s decline a retracement or medium-term correction. In terms technical analysis, indicators are mainly indicating a reverting price condition where the asset cannot maintain longer term momentum. However, momentum indications provide a slight bullish bias. The upward price movement is being driven by earnings reports from Microsoft and Alphabet which beat earnings expectations. Microsoft is the most influential stock for the NASDAQ while Alphabet is the third most influential. Alphabet’s earnings beat expectations by 21.61% and revenue rose more than $6 billion. As a result, the price of the stock rose 11.56% after market close. Furthermore, Microsoft’s Earnings Per Share beat Wall Street’s expectations by 3.40% and revenue by 1.50%. The stock rose by 4.30% after market close and is close to trading at the all-time high. However, investors should note that from the “magnificent 7”, Alphabet and Meta have the lowest Price to Earnings ratio. Meaning these stocks are the most likely to be trading below their intrinsic value. However, investors should note that negatives for the stock market in general remain. This also supports the bias shown by technical analysis. The GDP growth rate fell considerably below expectations while inflation data continues to show signs of rising prices. Investors will closely be monitoring today’s Core PCE Price Index which is the most watched index by the Federal Reserve. Analysts expect the Core PCE Price Index to fall from 2.8% to 2.6%. If the index reads more than 0.3%, a rate cut will become unlikely making stocks less attractive. Whereas, if the PCE Price Index is not as high as expectations, Bond Yields will likely decline, as will the US Dollar and a rate cut will be put back on the table. As a result, investors may look to take advantage of the strong earnings and continue purchasing stocks. USDJPY – BOJ Hold Interest Rates Unchanged! The price of the USDJPY exchange rate again rose to an all-time recent high after increasing in value for 3 consecutive days. Trend and momentum-based indicators point towards a higher price. However, the exchange rate is trading within the overbought range of most oscillators and is also showing a divergence pattern. Both are known to indicate a decline, but not necessarily a complete change of trend. The Bank of Japan’s statement from earlier this morning was largely “dovish” and gave no clear indication that the central bank wishes to keep rising interest rates. However, shortly the Governor will answer questions from journalists and may give a more hawkish tone. Either way, investors are mainly concentrating on if the Federal Government will again opt to intervene within the currency market. Most economists believe the intervention will only come if the USD continues to rise and it will not be before the Core PCE Price Index. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • 📁 Population in 2100, as projected by UN Population Division.   🇮🇳 India: 1,533 million 🇨🇳 China: 771 million 🇳🇬 Nigeria: 546 million 🇵🇰 Pakistan: 487 million 🇨🇩 Congo: 431 million 🇺🇸 US: 394 million 🇪🇹 Ethiopia: 323 million 🇮🇩 Indonesia: 297 million 🇹🇿 Tanzania: 244 million 🇪🇬 Egypt: 205 million 🇧🇷 Brazil: 185 million 🇵🇭 Philippines: 180 million 🇧🇩 Bangladesh: 177 million 🇳🇪 Niger: 166 million 🇸🇩 Sudan: 142 million 🇦🇴 Angola: 133 million 🇺🇬 Uganda: 132 million 🇲🇽 Mexico: 116 million 🇰🇪 Kenya: 113 million 🇷🇺 Russia: 112 million 🇮🇶 Iraq: 111 million 🇦🇫 Afghanistan: 110 million   @FinancialWorldUpdates Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • “If the West finds itself falling behind in AI, it won’t be due to a lack of technological prowess or resources. It won’t be because we weren’t smart enough or didn’t move fast enough. It will be because of something many of our Eastern counterparts don’t share with us: fear of AI.   The root of the West's fear of AI can no doubt be traced back to decades of Hollywood movies and books that have consistently depicted AI as a threat to humanity. From the iconic "Terminator" franchise to the more recent "Ex Machina," we have been conditioned to view AI as an adversary, a force that will ultimately turn against us.   In contrast, Eastern cultures have a WAY different attitude towards AI. As UN AI Advisor Neil Sahota points out, "In Eastern culture, movies, and books, they've always seen AI and robots as helpers and assistants, as a tool to be used to further the benefit of humans."   This positive outlook on AI has allowed countries like Japan, South Korea, and China to forge ahead with AI development, including in areas like healthcare, where AI is being used to improve the quality of services.   The West's fear of AI is not only shaping public opinion but also influencing policy decisions and regulatory frameworks. The European Union, for example, recently introduced AI legislation prioritizing heavy-handed protection over supporting innovation.   While such measures might be well-intentioned, they risk stifling AI development and innovation, making it harder for Western companies and researchers to compete.   Among the nations leading common-sense AI regulation, one stands out for now: Singapore.” – Chris C Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • $NFLX Netflix stock hold at 556.59 support or breakdown?  https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.