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markl67

I'm Done...

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Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

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Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

 

give this a read in your spare time,

you might learn something different.

ps. this is not a fast acting aspirin, the pain won't go away overnight;

this knowledge will take at least 24 months+ to learn.

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/price-volume-relationship-6320.html

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Really Tams? You are going to torture the guy w/ that stuff? Wow, that's not nice at all.

 

What did he do to you?

 

look who's talking !!!

...someone who pretends to be a holy-than-thou "price action" trader in the front,

but secretly tries to buy an indicator behind the scene... LOL

 

and you had the gall to bad mouth the guy when he won't sell you his indicator... !?!?!

 

ROTFLMAO

Edited by Tams

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look who's talking !!!

...someone who pretends to be a holy-than-thou "price action" trader in the front,

but secretly tries to buy an indicator behind the scene... LOL

 

and you had the gall to bad mouth the guy when he won't sell you his indicator... !?!?!

 

ROTFLMAO

 

:confused:

 

Huh? I must have missed something along the way.

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Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

 

You might be giving up. If you are like me it wont last long. I have given up numerous times and it lasts about a week. If you can walk away that easily, you are probably a better man that I. Some days I wish I could do that. But then...a glimmer...and I feel like I just might be getting it...

 

I don't think you need to sit in front of the computer all day. I would recommend going and getting your job and then just looking at charts at night. I think the key here is not to trade live or anything like that...the key is to understand price action at least some of the time.

 

Or find a market that trades early in the morning or late at night after the kids are in bed. Just an hour of watching the charts unfold every day, no trading, just watching and you would be making progress.

 

Have you ever been watching a chart and not really know what it's going to do next but you have been watching charts so long that at some point you see something happening and you say to yourself, I just know price will stop right there and go up or down, and you are right? If you have not, then you have probably not spent enough time just watching charts. Forget trading...just watch. Trading is too distracting. When you start getting to those points where you just know...try to figure a way to enter...some sort of a trigger or a formation you see on a shorter term chart...something that will make you comfortable getting in.

 

That's why nobody can teach someone else how to trade. because in a successful trader, he has been immersed in charts so long that it is just his second nature. He doesn't even really understand what he is doing.

 

But ya gotta enjoy it...

 

Anyway, I thought I would throw down a little shpeal here just for the heck of it...but then I don't have a clue what I am talking about so it's probably only worth 2 cents to me.

 

Oh, and get rid of all the indicators on your charts. Just forget them, at least for now.

 

JH

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Get the job. That'll take pressure off (but do it before August 1st please).

 

Then pick 6 forex pairs that are relatively uncorrelated and trade them on H4 charts that line up midnight with either London or Globex (Greece for the globex open/close).

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18 months is nothing most people take years to figure out a system that works for them, all the systems, all the gurus, all the books in the world cant teach you trade. screen time ,dedication and a system that is yours and is flexible enough to adapt quickly is the a must. If you decide not to quit, and try again start with 1 trade. Master that one trade then another and another until you have 3 that work with good results thats all you need.Ill even give you an easy trade ive been using for months now with great results. Heres the set up dont know if your an MP guy but here it is when the market is coming up to a recent poc that your going to use for support or resistance, most people are going to trade right in front of it hoping that it holds well most of the time lately they have not been holding in fact i wont place orders in front of them any more peroid.the play is 2 pts behind the is where i place the trade knowing that the stops of all the mp traders will be there and ill take the bounce there usually back to the poc sometmes further. ill usually grab a couple points then go to BE on the rest just incase it really starts moving. good luck.

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In my very humble opinion, if you haven't decided that you are going to work as hard as you can for however long it takes to become a "successful" trader, you are destined for frustration.

 

 

My trading improved so much when I stopped worrying about deadlines and simply realized that I was in this for however long it takes.

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I concur with a few of the posters here.

 

I think you'll be back. You put in 18 months and for most of us, the cycle to success took longer. Once you get the bug it's hard to resist it. However, I think there's certainly nothing wrong with taking that break and reassessing everything and of course taking care of the family situation. Clearly the realities of life (and bills!) has to be accounted for.

 

I'd say you can still work on your skills and your system even if it's less active trading or even virtual trading rather than simply dropping it all. You just might find you'll have the big breakthrough when you take some of the pressure off of having to do this full-time for income which is one of the toughest challenges psychologically.

 

I can't tell you how many times I quit this rat race only to comeback. So many times I'd set up conditionals such as if I don't get profitably by xxx or have this win rate by xxx or drawdown less than this I'm done. And, I was, for a while -- but back I came. In the end worth it. It's a journey.

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Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

 

Have you ever thought to question motive. Since trading is a psychological game.

 

All of the sources that you find while researching. What is their motive for publishing what you read/hear?

 

If a man could sit quietly in his own home, pulling the trigger on a trade, making more than most make in a month/year a day. He'd be a fool to waste his time publishing books, webinars, trading groups, etc, teaching others to do it. Wouldn't he? That's just plain common sense.

 

You're certainly no better off as a result of the influence of those 'educational' sources now are you?

 

I would venture to say that if you are as I am, you'd be far better off at this point if they didn't even exist.

 

Why quit because all the teachers are deluded? Just because they are blind leaders of the blind. That doesn't mean that a man cannot eventually see what they cannot.

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If a man could sit quietly in his own home, pulling the trigger on a trade, making more than most make in a month/year a day. He'd be a fool to waste his time publishing books, webinars, trading groups, etc, teaching others to do it. Wouldn't he? That's just plain common sense.

I don't think that it is so simple. As mentioned in another recently active thread, being a trader is a very lonely career. Teaching, in one form or another, can mean a way to socialize and to share the trader's thoughts or wisdom to raise followers, like when a master accepts apprentices to teach them his craft.

The apprentice, however, must use his common sense to distinguish a real master from a swindler.

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I'm inclined to agree head2k. For the argument to hold up one must accept that peoples sole motivation is to make money. There are clearly exceptions some traders/educators publish results (ones that manage funds for example). Some you just know are the real deal. There are also traders that make woeful educators and educators that are poor traders. I have to say I would agree that most educators are a waste of space. I am always wary of the word 'all'.

 

OP, to be honest it sounds as if your expectations where not realistic. There is a bit of a catch 22 when starting out in so far as you need some experience to sift through all the aforementioned BS, it is hard to work purposefully towards something if you don't know what that something is, or are not fully convinced about it's veracity. It can be pretty hard to discover 'truths' which allow the formation of 'beliefs' that will allow one to trade successfully.

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High Probability Trading

Consists of long hours of keen observation of the market. Keep it simple, keep it clean, gain experience and confidence over time. You start by watching the chart. Take notes. Name repeated patterns. Get familiar with them. When you can see them quickly and know their names then start trading them.

Range charts are unique. Very few traders use them. Very few traders make money. Very few traders focus on price, the tape, volume. Small consistent wins make you money. Once in a while you get a big winner. Whoopee.

Trade the trend, fade the trend, trade a sideways range, scalp it. Whatever fits you and makes you comfortable is what is right for you. Find a strategy you can trade or create one of your own.

Read, read, study, study, practice, practice. Concentrate on your strategy and when you are ready (after thorough testing) stop looking for anything else, stop buying stuff, stop attending seminars, stop reading forum threads, stop all interference and distractions and start to trade. Trade for money. Trade as a businessman. Trade for yourself. Consistency is more important than anything. It all starts with becoming consistent. You can fix consistent (wrong) actions. It is almost impossible to fix erratic behavior.

Eventually, you will have to fly on your own, or crash and burn. Trading is not for everyone.

If you find out that it is not for you, that is great. It is no reflection on you or your life. It is not personal, you did not fail. It is OK to just stop. You may not be wired for this. So, find something else you are good at and/or pursue other avenues of investment.

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Trading is not for everyone.

If you find out that it is not for you, that is great. It is no reflection on you or your life. It is not personal, you did not fail. It is OK to just stop. You may not be wired for this. So, find something else you are good at and/or pursue other avenues of investment.

 

Perfectly said.

Trading has aspects a bit like being a celebrity - sportstar/movie start/airhead. There is generally a lot of hard work before the success, more work behind the scenes and then a lot of continual work to keep it up..... and yet it has an aura of "wow it must be great" about it.

Yes - it can be the best job in the world, however its not for everyone, there are sometimes other more enjoyable things to do.

I know plenty of people who have traded successfully for many years who then proceed to do other things afterward and never look back.

Also not all styles are for everyone either..... there can be a lot of time spent on this pursuit alone.

 

In terms of time spent. well most professional qualifications seem to take about a minimum of three years of constant partying - i mean studying - and cost an arm and a leg, and there is no guarantee of success there either. I often hear there are more qualified lawyers doing other things other than those actually practicing the law, why should trading be any different.

(Collect your free trading certificate/diploma at the door)

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Well, after 18 months of researching, demo trading, live trading, webinars, trading groups, books, magazines, I have finally decided to throw in the towel. I hate giving up, but I have a family to support and this just ain't workin', so back to looking for another 9-5 hum drum job - oh well. Good luck to everyone...

 

Mark,

 

Congrats on it only taking you 18 months. Most of us here are too stupid or in denial or delusional. You haven't given up, you've learned. This is at best a hobby for most. And, if you need to support a family, then you probably can't dedicate a lot of time to your hobbies. To make a living doing this requires a great deal of capital. It is no different from running any other type of business. Everyone and anyone who tells you that you can make a living trading with a small account either lives in a paper bag and has very little expenses or is completely full of shit.

 

Gloss over the ego driven responses. No one will back up their statements with anything substantial.

 

 

Good Luck,

 

 

MM

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Great conversation/debate as usual here on TL.

 

One thing that I always found, back in the days when I was managing some funds is I would show potential investors what we were making, and for this example let's say it was something like 2% - 5% a month, and very manageable/small drawdowns. I can't tell you how many people would say that that sucks, and they can make 25% - 100% a month.

 

Could they? Highly unlikely and if they did it would last a couple of months before it came crumbling down. But it always drove me crazy that we could be showing very consistent, double digit returns but it was always scoffed at since people get so greedy, and have such high expectations on their investments that they become delusional.

 

It's like a salesperson who let's say closes 2 of 10 people on something. Most salespeople quite because to them it's a failure - 8 out of 10 said no. When in reality that's an amazing close rate. Again, people just expect way too much.

 

Whether it's greed, entitlement, lack of education, advertisements, etc...

 

Just like I feel most traders will quit because they expect to be rich with little effort. And, when someone maybe tries to offer them a realistic training, course, strategy, etc.. they scoff at it since people don't like to buy realism......the fantasy is so much more appealing.

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Mark,

 

Congrats on it only taking you 18 months. Most of us here are too stupid or in denial or delusional. You haven't given up, you've learned. This is at best a hobby for most. And, if you need to support a family, then you probably can't dedicate a lot of time to your hobbies. To make a living doing this requires a great deal of capital. It is no different from running any other type of business. Everyone and anyone who tells you that you can make a living trading with a small account either lives in a paper bag and has very little expenses or is completely full of shit.

 

Gloss over the ego driven responses. No one will back up their statements with anything substantial.

 

 

Good Luck,

 

 

MM

 

Absolutely correct. Blunt and to the point.

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consistent profits, no drawdowns, no risk.

thank you Bernie Madoff

 

There will always be ponzi schemes ready to take the money of people.

 

slightly off topic..........

MMS - you just talked about not only the desires/greed of retail investors but those of many institutional investors also. I would like to meet one large money manager who privately really loves his clients. Its probably the one biggest complaint - that people dont understand or want to understand what trading entails and what turns out to be good results.

 

eg; 2009-2010 many funds have had good returns, but these same funds are flat to down over 2007-2010. Yet if a fund was up over the 2007-2010 period but underperformed in 2009-2010 compared to others they get criticized......go figure.

Marketing is king when it comes to OPM.

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Linda Raschke said that about 2 years is the point where those who are still in the game (haven't lost all their money or haven't given up) tend to make it. Was true for me, I became profitable around the 2 year mark.

 

So giving up after 1.5 years.. in my opinion it's not enough time. but a family to support is a big burden in learning to trade.

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markl67,

I think you have to put into perspective how far you have come. you obviously have to do what is right for your circumstances but this is not a game that just falls in your lap (although it may for some). keep up the research, paper trading, follow blogs and get some mentors. just remember that most uni courses are 4 + years.

 

My advice is to move to a bigger time frame that does not require you constant attention, have a break or slow down but dont disregard everything you have learnt over the last 18 ,months.

 

cheers

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