Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

See attached Jack Hershey's chart for today. Lately he's using a fully mechanical approach of staying on the right side of the market.

 

Thanks for that. I finally get it. The penny has dropped. :doh:

 

It was the "walk forward" in the volume pane that did for me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

5aa711cf77753_3-21-20131-16-05pmeodannotated.thumb.png.bde3eca61d1606b3ebdbd36a677f821c.png

5aa711cf7d5b8_21mar13page1.gif.8e90d39eae4da78488e1643d7fde14fa.gif

5aa711cf81ecc_21mar13page2.gif.f2006498dfc1dca310ba13ec89bae67f.gif

5aa711cf8698b_21mar13page3.jpg.8f77b8404ed842d042108779afe89218.jpg

5aa711cf8ca4e_21mar13page4.gif.5bdfc4886183b2261a98688ac9de98fc.gif

5aa711cf927b9_21mar13page5.gif.1d2f811f003e213b98c79232980aff67.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

I don't understand the complexity of what it is you're doing, but I appreciate your devotion to it and your willingness to share the results. This is the first bit of trading results I think I've seen on this thread for this methodology( although I might have missed some earlier ). Thanks!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

 

IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at! ;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at! ;)
I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?
The "channels" are annotations primarily made in the price pane. Jack's latest posts come from the position that the volume is the independent market variable, and the price (a volume dependent market variable) is used to gate / filter the volume information. Hence by monitoring the volume, as allowed by price, you can know at every moment the market sentiment, and stay on the right side of the market. This approach is easier to automate, but leaves more potential profit on the table.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

 

Well, not according to Todd (Spyder). But no doubt JH unearthed many of the basic principles years ago....totally agree on that one.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have a question....If Jack Hershey knew all this Price/Volume stuff many years ago Why he didn't start at the beginning drawing charts like this ?

 

This is new stuff that he has come up with. In his document "Channels For Building Wealth" there is nothing like this.

 

If you look through the ET thread, it looks like it dates back a year or so for this type of method.

Edited by wilddog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The short sentiment ended on bar 4.

 

Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3765655#post3765655

jh.png.8feecfdabf94fbed8feb18f03fb3d087.png

jh.jpg.97f0e745c96ea50fba805f3432ceae25.jpg

Edited by wilddog

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My :2c: This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

Forums

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's your point. Jack's charts show that:

  • on his trading fractal, on 3-21 early in bar 75 he reversed short, to be on the right side of the market, sentiment short
  • on 3-22 early in bar 1 he entered short, in accordance with the above, no new assessment at this point
  • on 3-22 early in bar 5 he reversed long, to stay on the right side of the market, sentiment now being long

The 54.2 looks like a typo for 44.2. The bar 5 on the chart is bar 6 in the log for the reversal long at 45. Jack's posts always had such inconsistencies, but they don't seem significant to me when I'm looking to the judgement behind the words. As an example consider Jokari vs. Johari, which he said he did on purpose. In this case bar 4 is an ftt, followed by a decreasing volume up black stitch. The "carved" reversal should've been early bar 5, then, later in bar 6 the "2nd chance" occurred.

 

As a general note, I'm not defending Jack or Spydertrader, or trying to put one above the other, each one has his merits: we wouldn't have these discussions without either of them. I just post my opinions on a matter or another. I'm always open to learn something, be it something new, or correcting or improving my understanding. :)

5aa711d0843bc_3-21to22-2013carryover.png.9744db92b4d78e00aeb0b2e0dd6d9c50.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So you know how to trade it if you trade on a faster fractal.

 

By the way, ET deleted most of Jack's recent posts.

 

Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

Jack's Friday chart and logs.

5aa711d08ea00_3-22-20131-32-15pmeodannotated.thumb.png.348a8618c6ec578db996b32e1efce1a8.png

5aa711d09505b_22nar13page1.jpg.1139a5def4f55a1784df3ce4ac5a8afd.jpg

5aa711d09a484_22mar13page2.jpg.2224a2c459b3dc5cc982c1de5b48d2c8.jpg

5aa711d09f452_22mar13page3.jpg.835a1fa8e003fadc10eb1831c8709d6f.jpg

5aa711d0a47e4_22mar13page4.jpg.0d4880dbb89c0a36aa52dcae7f15f6ad.jpg

5aa711d0aaae9_22mar13page5.jpg.bbfe10a7de47bcf5b6ffeba979c311c5.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My :2c: This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

I think that Jack enjoys finding new ways of looking at the market, but as the market doesn't really change its basics, all the new approaches posted by Jack are just new ways of emphasizing one aspect or another, new observations, new ways of filtering and organizing the information, but they rely on the same basics.

 

If we make a step back and look at the new way Jack posts about the market, he is actually just moving the emphasis toward the volume information, basically giving a bunch of new names to the peaks and troughs of the pattern, and dropping a fractal on the pt3 to ftt leg. Those names are another way of depicting the gaussians.

 

PS: How many people in their 80s can still have such active minds?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
    • there is no avoiding loses to be honest, its just how the market is. you win some and hopefully more, but u do lose some. 
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.