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See attached Jack Hershey's chart for today. Lately he's using a fully mechanical approach of staying on the right side of the market.

 

Thanks for that. I finally get it. The penny has dropped. :doh:

 

It was the "walk forward" in the volume pane that did for me.

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jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

5aa711cf77753_3-21-20131-16-05pmeodannotated.thumb.png.bde3eca61d1606b3ebdbd36a677f821c.png

5aa711cf7d5b8_21mar13page1.gif.8e90d39eae4da78488e1643d7fde14fa.gif

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5aa711cf927b9_21mar13page5.gif.1d2f811f003e213b98c79232980aff67.gif

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jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

I don't understand the complexity of what it is you're doing, but I appreciate your devotion to it and your willingness to share the results. This is the first bit of trading results I think I've seen on this thread for this methodology( although I might have missed some earlier ). Thanks!

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jack hershey

 

Registered: Feb 2003

Posts: 7249

 

03-21-13 02:19 PM

 

 

 

As may be seen.

 

we went short on a BM REV and have continued in this trend through the Assigned P1 to a T1, thence to bar 78 where the rule is "advance one peak" to P2.

 

Bar 78 is usally high volume and high volatility.

 

In this case a FBP followed and then the lat3 happened.

 

At lat3 and beyond the Close is used to measure laterals. This makes bar 81 a lat4.

 

We deduce, then that the market opens tomorrow on bar 1 with short sentiment.

 

Three values of volume are inforce. No kills are inforce except that no more T1's are possible after a P2.

 

When you wake up, your mind may be asking you curious questions if you followed along today.

 

How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

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How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?

 

IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at! ;)

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IMHO, this has nothing to do with the three fractals as introduced by Spyder....nothing! If my chart looked anything like this I would have walked away long ago. But then again, from what I've heard, Jack never really got all the intricacies that Spyder introduced. And from what I've seen of his charts, that's apparently true. But I'll say one thing...it's entertaining to look at! ;)
I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

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How is this useful if Jack doesn't even draw channels?
The "channels" are annotations primarily made in the price pane. Jack's latest posts come from the position that the volume is the independent market variable, and the price (a volume dependent market variable) is used to gate / filter the volume information. Hence by monitoring the volume, as allowed by price, you can know at every moment the market sentiment, and stay on the right side of the market. This approach is easier to automate, but leaves more potential profit on the table.

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I'm pretty sure that Jack introduced the three fractals, and that what we're seeing posted today by Jack includes collaborations with Spydertrader. Everything posted by both Jack and Spydertrader over the years is based on a few basic principles discovered many years ago by Jack Hershey (e.g. the PV relation, the pattern, the fractals).

 

Well, not according to Todd (Spyder). But no doubt JH unearthed many of the basic principles years ago....totally agree on that one.

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I have a question....If Jack Hershey knew all this Price/Volume stuff many years ago Why he didn't start at the beginning drawing charts like this ?

 

This is new stuff that he has come up with. In his document "Channels For Building Wealth" there is nothing like this.

 

If you look through the ET thread, it looks like it dates back a year or so for this type of method.

Edited by wilddog

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The short sentiment ended on bar 4.

 

Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

http://www.elitetrader.com/vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=3765655#post3765655

jh.png.8feecfdabf94fbed8feb18f03fb3d087.png

jh.jpg.97f0e745c96ea50fba805f3432ceae25.jpg

Edited by wilddog

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My :2c: This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

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Jack always calls the side of the market on the open. He has always done so.

 

After losing 3 points from the open I would also change my sentiment.

 

"Monday open is long" means buy on the open. Jack is binary not "well sentiment is long, so lets see"

 

He has a 50% chance of being right

 

Just my 2c worth

 

 

Forums

 

 

 

I'm not sure what's your point. Jack's charts show that:

  • on his trading fractal, on 3-21 early in bar 75 he reversed short, to be on the right side of the market, sentiment short
  • on 3-22 early in bar 1 he entered short, in accordance with the above, no new assessment at this point
  • on 3-22 early in bar 5 he reversed long, to stay on the right side of the market, sentiment now being long

The 54.2 looks like a typo for 44.2. The bar 5 on the chart is bar 6 in the log for the reversal long at 45. Jack's posts always had such inconsistencies, but they don't seem significant to me when I'm looking to the judgement behind the words. As an example consider Jokari vs. Johari, which he said he did on purpose. In this case bar 4 is an ftt, followed by a decreasing volume up black stitch. The "carved" reversal should've been early bar 5, then, later in bar 6 the "2nd chance" occurred.

 

As a general note, I'm not defending Jack or Spydertrader, or trying to put one above the other, each one has his merits: we wouldn't have these discussions without either of them. I just post my opinions on a matter or another. I'm always open to learn something, be it something new, or correcting or improving my understanding. :)

5aa711d0843bc_3-21to22-2013carryover.png.9744db92b4d78e00aeb0b2e0dd6d9c50.png

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So you know how to trade it if you trade on a faster fractal.

 

By the way, ET deleted most of Jack's recent posts.

 

Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

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Yes, I saw that. Instead to delete, they should move the content to chit chat. I hope some people archive what he posts. Just because I or others don't understand (at any given moment in time) what he writes, doesn't mean that what he posts is useless. Sometimes one is lucky and finds something that is (could be) interesting.

Jack's Friday chart and logs.

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5aa711d0aaae9_22mar13page5.jpg.bbfe10a7de47bcf5b6ffeba979c311c5.jpg

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My :2c: This method become so overcomplicated....... that is not the right way is my believe.

Trading for profits must follow the way of least resistance, here this is not the case. I was struggling like everybody before to understand the P/V ,now I found different language, different annotations....Where is the Ftt , Fbo the Gaussian ???

I think that Jack enjoys finding new ways of looking at the market, but as the market doesn't really change its basics, all the new approaches posted by Jack are just new ways of emphasizing one aspect or another, new observations, new ways of filtering and organizing the information, but they rely on the same basics.

 

If we make a step back and look at the new way Jack posts about the market, he is actually just moving the emphasis toward the volume information, basically giving a bunch of new names to the peaks and troughs of the pattern, and dropping a fractal on the pt3 to ftt leg. Those names are another way of depicting the gaussians.

 

PS: How many people in their 80s can still have such active minds?

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    • Date: 17th April 2024. Market News – Appetite for risk-taking remains weak. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks, Treasury yields and US Dollar stay firmed. Fed Chair Powell added to the recent sell off. His slightly more hawkish tone further priced out chances for any imminent action and the timing of a cut was pushed out further. He suggested if higher inflation does persist, the Fed will hold rates steady “for as long as needed.” Implied Fed Fund: There remains no real chance for a move on May 1 and at their intraday highs the June implied funds rate future showed only 5 bps, while July reflected only 10 bps. And a full 25 bps was not priced in until November, with 38 bps in cuts seen for 2024. US & EU Economies Diverging: Lagarde says ECB is moving toward rate cuts – if there are no major shocks. UK March CPI inflation falls less than expected. Output price inflation has started to nudge higher, despite another decline in input prices. Together with yesterday’s higher than expected wage numbers, the data will add to the arguments of the hawks at the BoE, which remain very reluctant to contemplate rate cuts. Canada CPI rose 0.6% in March, double the 0.3% February increase BUT core eased. The doors are still open for a possible cut at the next BoC meeting on June 5. IMF revised up its global growth forecast for 2024 with inflation easing, in its new World Economic Outlook. This is consistent with a global soft landing, according to the report. Financial Markets Performance:   USDJPY also inched up to 154.67 on expectations the BoJ will remain accommodative and as the market challenges a perceived 155 red line for MoF intervention. USOIL prices slipped -0.15% to $84.20 per barrel. Gold rose 0.24% to $2389.11 per ounce, a new record closing high as geopolitical risks overshadowed the impacts of rising rates and the stronger dollar. Market Trends:   Wall Street waffled either side of unchanged on the day amid dimming rate cut potential, rising yields, and earnings. The major indexes closed mixed with the Dow up 0.17%, while the S&P500 and NASDAQ lost -0.21% and -0.12%, respectively. Asian stock markets mostly corrected again, with Japanese bourses underperforming and the Nikkei down -1.3%. Mainland China bourses were a notable exception and the CSI 300 rallied 1.4%, but the MSCI Asia Pacific index came close to erasing the gains for this year. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.vvvvvvv
    • Date: 16th April 2024. Market News – Stocks and currencies sell off; USD up. Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Stocks and currencies sell off, while the US Dollar picks up haven flows. Treasuries yields spiked again to fresh 2024 peaks before paring losses into the close, post, the stronger than expected retail sales eliciting a broad sell off in the markets. Rates surged as the data pushed rate cut bets further into the future with July now less than a 50-50 chance. Wall Street finished with steep declines led by tech. Stocks opened in the green on a relief trade after Israel repulsed the well advertised attack from Iran on Sunday. But equities turned sharply lower and extended last week’s declines amid the rise in yields. Investor concerns were intensified as Israel threatened retaliation. There’s growing anxiety over earnings even after a big beat from Goldman Sachs. UK labor market data was mixed, as the ILO unemployment rate unexpectedly lifted, while wage growth came in higher than anticipated – The data suggests that the labor market is catching up with the recession. Mixed messages then for the BoE. China grew by 5.3% in Q1 however the numbers are causing a lot of doubts over sustainability of this growth. The bounce came in the first 2 months of the year. In March, growth in retail sales slumped and industrial output decelerated below forecasts, suggesting challenges on the horizon. Today: Germany ZEW, US housing starts & industrial production, Fed Vice Chair Philip Jefferson speech, BOE Bailey speech & IMF outlook. Earnings releases: Morgan Stanley and Bank of America. Financial Markets Performance:   The US Dollar rallied to 106.19 after testing 106.25, gaining against JPY and rising to 154.23, despite intervention risk. Yen traders started to see the 160 mark as the next Resistance level. Gold surged 1.76% to $2386 per ounce amid geopolitical risks and Chinese buying, even as the USD firmed and yields climbed. USOIL is flat at $85 per barrel. Market Trends:   Breaks of key technical levels exacerbated the sell off. Tech was the big loser with the NASDAQ plunging -1.79% to 15,885 while the S&P500 dropped -1.20% to 5061, with the Dow sliding -0.65% to 37,735. The S&P had the biggest 2-day sell off since March 2023. Nikkei and ASX lost -1.9% and -1.8% respectively, and the Hang Seng is down -2.1%. European bourses are down more than -1% and US futures are also in the red. CTA selling tsunami: “Just a few points lower CTAs will for the first time this year start selling in size, to add insult to injury, we are breaking major trend-lines in equities and the gamma stabilizer is totally gone.” Short term CTA threshold levels are kicking in big time according to GS. Medium term is 4873 (most important) while the long term level is at 4605. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Date: 15th April 2024. Market News – Negative Reversion; Safe Havens Rally. Trading Leveraged Products is risky Economic Indicators & Central Banks:   Markets weigh risk of retaliation cycle in Middle East. Initially the retaliatory strike from Iran on Israel fostered a haven bid, into bonds, gold and other haven assets, as it threatens a wider regional conflict. However, this morning, Oil and Asian equity markets were muted as traders shrugged off fears of a war escalation in the Middle East. Iran said “the matter can be deemed concluded”, and President Joe Biden has called on Israel to exercise restraint following Iran’s drone and missile strike, as part of Washington’s efforts to ease tensions in the Middle East and minimize the likelihood of a widespread regional conflict. New US and UK sanctions banned deliveries of Russian supplies, i.e. key industrial metals, produced after midnight on Friday. Aluminum jumped 9.4%, nickel rose 8.8%, suggesting brokers are bracing for major supply chain disruption. Financial Markets Performance:   The USDIndex fell back from highs over 106 to currently 105.70. The Yen dip against USD to 153.85. USOIL settled lower at 84.50 per barrel and Gold is trading below session highs at currently $2357.92 per ounce. Copper, more liquid and driven by the global economy over recent weeks, was more subdued this morning. Currently at $4.3180. Market Trends:   Asian stock markets traded mixed, but European and US futures are slightly higher after a tough session on Friday and yields have picked up. Mainland China bourses outperformed overnight, after Beijing offered renewed regulatory support. The PBOC meanwhile left the 1-year MLF rate unchanged, while once again draining funds from the system. Nikkei slipped 1% to 39,114.19. On Friday, NASDAQ slumped -1.62% to 16,175, unwinding most of Thursday’s 1.68% jump to a new all-time high at 16,442. The S&P500 fell -1.46% and the Dow dropped 1.24%. Declines were broadbased with all 11 sectors of the S&P finishing in the red. JPMorgan Chase sank 6.5% despite reporting stronger profit in Q1. The nation’s largest bank gave a forecast for a key source of income this year that fell below Wall Street’s estimate, calling for only modest growth. Apple shipments drop by 10% in Q1. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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