The Price / Volume Relationship

[saturo 10]

I have a philosophical questions about laterals... about what is knowable and what isn't.

 

Lats are created by 3 bars. Bar 1 has a directional aspect. (Further - that direction is either dom or non-dom.)

 

Now ...the lateral will eventually and ALWAYS have a BO and that BO will either be the same or the opposite of bar 1's direction.

 

My question is this: is the BO direction ALWAYS knowable as soon as price tells us we have a lat? Or perhaps this is a CERTAIN POINT situation where we only know FOR SURE at a certain point during the formation of the lat?

[Spydertrader 10]

is the BO direction ALWAYS knowable as soon as price tells us we have a lat?

 

Yup, and without exception. Probably why I keep encouraging people to work through the process of Lateral Differentiation.

 

I designed The Lateral Formation Drill (and its follow up) to remind people to learn to differentiate ...

 

1. Context

2. Order of Events.

3. and then the thing (in this case laterals).

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[rs5 10]

Lateral Drill 6 Jan 2010

[rs5 10]

Thursday 7 January 2010

[romanus 10]

Yup, and without exception.

If you'd be so kind to clarify: Does it mean that when 11:00 bar (12/21) closes and the Price has formed the lateral (in the attached), one KNOWS that the price will BO that specific lateral in the upward direction and that there's no possibility that the Price may exit that specific lateral downward to finish the non-dominant sequence?

[Spydertrader 10]

If you'd be so kind to clarify:

 

You already know the answer to this question.

 

Why do you already know?

 

differentiate ...

 

1. Context

2. Order of Events.

3. and then the thing

 

Now. Compare your example (11:00 area) to the examples contained in The Lateral Formation Drill. Your example is missing something present in all other examples (from the Initial Lateral Formation Drill and the Follow-up) which I posted. In other words, your (11:00) example (in its posted form) represents a different thing causing you to compare apples to oranges (instead of apples to apples).

 

In fact, you can compare this (11:00) Lateral to one annotated earlier in your chart snippet in order to easily see what is missing. For now, remain focused on the these specific Laterals shown in this specific drill (and follow up) until you can 'see' these differences in your sleep. Then move onto different types of things.

 

N.B. When I say your example, I am looking at your chart snippet.

 

Always make sure to compare apples to apples when seeking answers.

 

So, while the answer to your question is yes, it is so - not for the reasons you probably believe - but for reasons far more elementary to understanding.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

[Ezzy 10]

Still referring to the 12-21 drill day for comparison I assume?

[Spydertrader 10]

Still referring to the 12-21 drill day for comparison I assume?

 

Yes.

 

- Spydertrader

[saturo 10]

romanus - so perhaps a way of looking at the process is:

 

1) know you have a lateral and not a formation

2) know your context

3) know what comes next

[rs5 10]

Friday 8 January 2010 - NFP day!

[romanus 10]

Compare your example (11:00 area) to the examples contained in The Lateral Formation Drill. Your example is missing something present in all other examples (from the Initial Lateral Formation Drill and the Follow-up) which I posted.

Upon further reflection, it seems to me that I was somewhat hasty and logically sloppy in formulating my inquiry, to put it mildly - so I can't really blame you for not understanding the answer you provided.

 

But, what is even more important, it's quite possible that the picture you're looking at is different from mine due to some differences in data providers. Would you be so kind to post the blank, not-annotated charts containing the laterals you referred to in the Follow-up.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

[become 10]

 

But, what is even more important, it's quite possible that the picture you're looking at is different from mine due to some differences in data providers. Would you be so kind to post the blank, not-annotated charts containing the laterals you referred to in the Follow-up.

 

Thank you very much for taking the time to reply.

 

Good, I thought they were charts of the same day and the same lateral...

 

I believe the data differences are caused by your bars being formed on the local computer in real time, rather than being preprocessed on a server. If you occasionally "Reload All Historical Data" during the day the bars will be recreated according to the ticks' timestamps.

 

- become

[Spydertrader 10]

But, what is even more important, it's quite possible that the picture you're looking at is different from mine due to some differences in data providers. Would you be so kind to post the blank, not-annotated charts containing the laterals you referred to in the Follow-up.

 

Sure thing.

 

- Spydertrader

[TIKITRADER 10]

Here is a closer look at the daily chart for ES.

Not a great chart but you get the idea.

It is from October until now. I have also re-attached the Monthy ES that I posted the other day for ease in comparing the charts.

[Ezzy 10]

Here is a closer look at the daily chart for ES.

Not a great chart but you get the idea.

It is from October until now. I have also re-attached the Monthy ES that I posted the other day for ease in comparing the charts.

 

Interesting how the volume is dropping on this up leg on the monthly. The daily looks the same way. Hmmm.

[midtown 10]

If you'd be so kind to clarify: Does it mean that when 11:00 bar (12/21) closes and the Price has formed the lateral (in the attached), one KNOWS that the price will BO that specific lateral in the upward direction and that there's no possibility that the Price may exit that specific lateral downward to finish the non-dominant sequence?

 

I find it helpful to annotate the traverse. Then, by comparing the results of the sym-lateral which occurs at point 3 confirmation of tape 1, tape 2and tape 3 of the traverse, the difference is apparent.

[rs5 10]

Monday 11 January 2010

[rs5 10]

Tuesday 12 January 2010

Edited January 12, 2010 by rs5

[rs5 10]

Wednesday 13 January 2010

[NYCMB 10]

Wednesday 13 January 2010

 

Hi rs5

 

Thank you for your persistently posting ES charts. I am wondering why you didn't mark Bar55, 67 and 79 respectively as the first bar of each SYM Lateral. Could you explain it?

 

Everyone is welcome to participate in this SYM Lateral discussion. TIA

[Spydertrader 10]

I am wondering why you didn't mark Bar55, 67 and 79 respectively as the first bar of each SYM Lateral. Could you explain it?

 

Each example within The Lateral Formation Drill (as well as the follow up) differs greatly from the examples you have picked from the chart posted by rs5.

 

In other words, you should be able to place all these Laterals into two distinct piles. One pile should contain The Lateral Formation Drill (and follow up) examples, and the other pile, should contain the examples you pointed out in your post.

 

Locate that which makes the two piles different, and you'll have the answer to your question.

 

I'm not trying to stifle discussion with my response to your query. However, I am attempting to get you to see the importance of the process of learning to differentiate that which you believe you see, from that which actually exists.

 

You see all (The Lateral Formation Drill [and Follow Up] along with those you pointed out in your post) examples as the same. I do not. More importantly, the market says they are not all the same.

 

Subtle differences. They really do make all the difference in the world.

 

- Spydertrader

[gucci 10]

In other words, you should be able to place all these Laterals into two distinct piles. One pile should contain The Lateral Formation Drill (and follow up) examples, and the other pile, should contain the examples you pointed out in your post.

 

Locate that which makes the two piles different, and you'll have the answer to your question.

 

 

- Spydertrader

 

 

Spyder, are you suggesting that there are only two piles for all laterals or two piles for laterals under discussion? TIA.

[Spydertrader 10]

Spyder, are you suggesting that there are only two piles for all laterals or two piles for laterals under discussion? TIA.

 

Two piles for the laterals currently under discussion. To be absolutely clear, everyone should have the ability to locate two examples from yesterday which conform to the examples of laterals provided in The Lateral Formation Drill (and follow up). These represent the types of Lateral Formations which need differentiation first. Then, and only then, should one move onto other types of laterals.

 

- Spydertrader

Edited January 14, 2010 by Spydertrader
Clarification

[Ezzy 10]

Two piles for the laterals currently under discussion. To be absolutely clear, everyone should have the ability to locate two examples from yesterday which conform to the examples of laterals provided in The Lateral Formation Drill (and follow up). These represent the types of Lateral Formations which need differentiation first. Then, and only then, should one move onto other types of laterals.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Would the laterals in green be the ones similar to the drill? The orange being the others mentioned.

[Spydertrader 10]

Would the laterals in green be the ones similar to the drill? The orange being the others mentioned.

 

You do not have this 100% correct.

 

- Spydertrader