To Arm or to Disarm.

[Colonel B 10]

Claptrap??? What is that? The first thing that came to mind was an ex girlfriend. Do you know her or something?

[zdo 20]

It’s funny how this thread is so full of projections - posters with one position suddenly getting associated with hole stereotypes.

 

Gun-nuts -> fearful to sleep without a gun -> hateful -> god fearing -> conservative -> it’s individuals’ fault -> not exactly intellectual -> cruel –> we haven’t evolved beyond weapons yet ->… etc etc

 

Gun-haters -> liberal -> loving and fearless -> willing to die instead of fight –> it’s the culture’s fault -> intelligent -> compassionate -> we’ve evolved beyond weapons now ->… etc etc

 

Examples of those who have gotten stereotyped by these projections:

smmatrix

MightyMouse

these are isolated examples ( and btw, both of them took it and dished it too :rofl:)

Other names withheld to protect the guilty

[zdo 20]

OP, etc.

 

If we look more deeply into humanity’s ancient religions and spiritual

traditions, we will find that underneath the many surface differences there

are two core insights that most of them agree on. The words they use to

describe those insights differ, yet they all point to a twofold fundamental

truth. The first part of this truth is the realization that the “normal” state of

mind of most human beings contains a strong element of what we might call

dysfunction or even madness. Certain teachings at the heart of Hinduism

perhaps come closest to seeing this dysfunction as a form of collective

mental illness. They call it maya, the veil of delusion. Ramana Maharshi,

one of the greatest Indian sages, bluntly states: “The mind is maya.”

 

Buddhism uses different terms. According to the Buddha, the human

mind in its normal state generates dukkha, which can be translated as

suffering, unsatisfactoriness, or just plain misery. He sees it as a

characteristic of the human condition. Wherever you go, whatever you do,

says the Buddha, you will encounter dukkha, and it will manifest in every

situation sooner or later.

 

According to Christian teachings, the normal collective state of

humanity is one of “original sin.” Sin is a word that has been greatly

misunderstood and misinterpreted. Literally translated from the ancient

Greek in which the New Testament was written, to sin means to miss the

mark, as an archer who misses the target, so to sin means to miss the point of

human existence. It means to live unskillfully, blindly, and thus to suffer and

cause suffering. Again, the term, stripped of its cultural baggage and

misinterpretations, points to the dysfunction inherent in the human

condition.

 

The achievements of humanity are impressive and undeniable. We

have created sublime works of music, literature, painting, architecture, and

sculpture. More recently, science and technology have brought about radical

changes in the way we live and have enabled us to do and create things that

would have been considered miraculous even two hundred years ago. No

doubt: The human mind is highly intelligent. Yet its very intelligence is

tainted by madness. Science and technology have magnified the destructive

impact that the dysfunction of the human mind has upon the planet, other

life*forms, and upon humans themselves. That is why the history of the

twentieth century is where that dysfunction, that collective insanity, can be

most clearly recognized. A further factor is that this dysfunction is actually

intensifying and accelerating.

 

The First World War broke out in 1914. Destructive and cruel wars,

motivated by fear, greed, and the desire for power, had been common

occurrences throughout human history, as had slavery, torture, and

widespread violence inflicted for religious and ideological reasons. Humans

suffered more at the hands of each other than through natural disasters. By

the year 1914, however, the highly intelligent human mind had invented not

only the internal combustion engine, but also bombs, machine guns,

submarines, flame throwers, and poison gas. Intelligence in the service of

madness! In static trench warfare in France and Belgium, millions of men

perished to gain a few miles of mud. When the war was over in 1918, the

survivors look in horror and incomprehension upon the devastation left

behind: ten million human beings killed and many more maimed or

disfigured. Never before had human madness been so destructive in its

effect, so clearly visible. Little did they know that this was only the

beginning.

 

By the end of the century, the number of people who died a violent

death at the hand of their fellow humans would rise to more than one

hundred million. They died not only through wars between nations, but also

through mass exterminations and genocide, such as the murder of twenty

million “class enemies, spies, and traitors” in the Soviet Union under Stalin

or the unspeakable horrors of the Holocaust in Nazi Germany. They also

died in countless smaller internal conflicts, such as the Spanish civil war or

during the Khmer Rouge regime in Cambodia when a quarter of that

country’s population was murdered.

 

We only need to watch the daily news on television to realize that the

madness has not abated, that is continuing into the twenty*first century.

Another aspect of the collective dysfunction of the human mind is the

unprecedented violence that humans are inflicting on other life*forms and

the planet itself – the destruction of oxygen*producing forests and other plant

and animal life; ill*treatment of animals in factory farms; and poisoning of

rivers, oceans, and air. Driven by greed, ignorant of their connectedness to

the whole, humans persist in behavior that, if continued unchecked, can only

result in their own destruction.

 

The collective manifestations of the insanity that lies at the heart of

the human condition constitute the greater part of human history. It is to a

large extent a history of madness. If the history of humanity were the clinical

case history of a single human being, the diagnosis would have to be:

chronic paranoid delusions, a pathological propensity to commit murder and

acts of extreme violence and cruelty against his perceived “enemies” – his

own unconsciousness projected outward. Criminally insane, with a few brief

lucid intervals.

 

Fear, greed, and the desire for power are the psychological motivating

forces not only behind warfare and violence between nations, tribes,

religions, and ideologies, but also the cause of incessant conflict in personal

relationships. They bring about a distortion in your perception of other

people and yourself. Through them, you misinterpret every situation, leading

to misguided action designed to rid you of fear and satisfy your need for

more, a bottomless hole that can never be filled.

 

It is important to realize, however, that fear, greed, and the desire for

power are not the dysfunction that we are speaking of but are themselves

created by the dysfunction which is a deep*seated collective delusion that

lies within the mind of each human being. A number of spiritual teachings

tell us to let go of fear and desire. But those spiritual practices are usually

unsuccessful. They haven’t gone to the root of the dysfunction. Fear, greed,

and desire for power are not the ultimate causal factors. Trying to become a

good or better human being sounds like a commendable and high*minded

thing to do, yet it is an endeavor you cannot ultimately succeed in unless

there is a shift in consciousness. This is because it is still part of the same

dysfunction, a more subtle and rarefied form of self*enhancement, of desire

for more and a strengthening of one’s conceptual identity, one’s self*image.

You do not become good by trying to be good, but by finding the goodness

that is already within you, and allowing that goodness to emerge. But it can

only emerge if something fundamental changes in your state of

consciousness.

 

The history of Communism, originally inspired by noble ideals,

clearly illustrates what happens when people attempt to change external

reality – create a new earth – without any prior change in their inner reality,

their state of consciousness. They make plans without taking into account

the blueprint for dysfunction that every human being carries within: the ego.

 

THE ARISING NEW CONSCIOUSNESS

Most ancient religions and spiritual traditions share the common

insight – that our “normal” state of mind is marred by a fundamental defect.

However, out of this insight into the nature of the human condition – we may

call it the bad news – arises a second insight: the good news of the

possibility of a radical transformation of human consciousness. In Hindu

teachings (and sometimes in Buddhism also), this transformation is called

enlightenment. In the teachings of Jesus, it is salvation, and in Buddhism, it

is the end of suffering. Liberation and awakening are other terms used to

describe this transformation.

 

The greatest achievement of humanity is not its works of art, science,

or technology, but the recognition of its own dysfunction, its own madness.

In the distant past, this recognition already came to a few individuals. A man

called Gautama Siddhartha, who lived 2,600 years ago in India, was perhaps

the first who saw it with absolute clarity. Later the title Buddha was

conferred upon him. Buddha means “the awakened one.” At abut the same

time, another of humanity’s early awakened teachers emerged in China. His

name was Lao Tzu. He left a record of his teaching in the form of one of the

most profound spiritual books ever written, the Tao Te Ching.

 

To recognize one’s own insanity, is of course, the arising of sanity, the

beginning of healing and transcendence. A new dimension of consciousness

had begun to emerge on the planet, a first tentative flowering. Those rare

individuals then spoke to their contemporaries. They spoke of sin, of

suffering, of delusion. They said, “Look how you live. See what you are

doing, the suffering you create.” They then pointed to the possibility of

awakening from the collective nightmare of “normal” human existence. They

showed the way.

 

The world was not yet ready for them, and yet they were a vital and

necessary part of human awakening. Inevitably, they were mostly

misunderstood by their contemporaries, as well as by subsequent

generations. Their teachings, although both simple and powerful, became

distorted and misinterpreted, in some cases even as they were recorded in

writing by their disciples. Over the centuries, many things were added that

had nothing to do with the original teachings, but were reflections of a

fundamental misunderstanding. Some of the teachers were ridiculed, reviled,

or killed; others came to be worshipped as gods. Teachings that pointed the

way beyond the dysfunction o the human mind, the way out of the collective

insanity, were distorted and became themselves part of the insanity.

 

And so religions, to a large extent, became divisive rather than

unifying forces. Instead of bringing about an ending of violence and hatred

through a realization of the fundamental oneness of all life, they brought

more violence and hatred, more divisions between people as well as between

different religions and even withing the same religion. They became

ideologies, belief systems people could identify with and so use them to

enhance their false sense of self. Through them, they could make themselves

“right” and others “wrong” and thus define their identity through their

enemies, the “others,” the “nonbelievers” or “wrong believers” who not

infrequently they saw themselves justified in killing. Man made “God” in his

own image. The eternal, the infinite, and unnameable was reduced to a

mental idol that you had to believe in and worship as “my god” or “our god.”

 

And yet… and yet… in spite of all the insane deeds perpetrated in the

name of religion, the Truth to which they point still shines at their core. It

still shines, however dimly, through layers upon layers of distortion and

misinterpretation. It is unlikely, however, that you will be able to perceive it

there unless you have at least already had glimpse of that Truth within

yourself. Throughout history, there have always been rare individuals who

experienced a shift in consciousness and so realized within themselves that

toward which all religions point. To describe that non*conceptual Truth, they

then used the conceptual framework of their own religions.

 

Through some of those men and women, “schools” or movements

developed within all major religions that represented not only a rediscovery,

but in some cases an intensification of the light of the original teaching. This

is how Gnosticism and mysticism came into existence in early and medieval

Christianity, Sufism in the Islamic religion, Hasidism and Kabbala in

Judaism, Advaita Vedanta in Hinduism, Zen and Dzogchen in Buddhism.

Most of these schools were iconoclastic. They did away with layers upon

layers of deadening conceptualization and mental belief structures, and for

this reason most of them were viewed with suspicion and often hostility by

the established religious hierarchies. Unlike mainstream religion, their

teachings emphasized realization and inner transformation. It is through

those esoteric schools or movements that the major religions regained the

transformative power of the original teachings, although in most cases, only

a small minority of people had access to them. Their numbers were never

large enough to have any significant impact on the deep collective

unconsciousness of the majority. Over time, some of those schools

themselves became too rigidly formalized or conceptualized to remain

effective.

 

SPIRITUALITY AND RELIGION

What is the role of the established religions in the arising of the new

consciousness? Many people are already aware of the difference between

spirituality and religion. They realize that having a belief system* a set of

thoughts that you regard as the absolute truth – does not make you spiritual

no matter what the nature of those beliefs is. In fact, the more you make your

thoughts (beliefs) into your identity, the more cut off you are from the

spiritual dimension within yourself. Many “religious” people are stuck at

that level. They equate truth with thought, and as they are completely

identified with thought (their mind), they claim to be in sole possession of

the truth in a n unconscious attempt to protect their identity. They don’t

realize the limitations of thought. Unless you believe (think) exactly as they

do, you are wrong in their eyes, and in the not*too*distant past, they would

have felt justified in killing you for that. And some still do, even now.

 

The new spirituality, the transformation of consciousness, is arising to

a large extent outside of the structures of the existing institutionalized

religions. There were always pockets of spirituality even in mind*dominated

religions, although the institutionalized hierarchies felt threatened by them

and often tried to suppress them. A large*scale opening of spirituality

outside of the religious structures is an entirely new development. In the

past, this would have been inconceivable, especially in the West, the most

mind*dominated of all cultures, where the Christian church had a virtual

franchise on spirituality. You couldn’t just stand up and give a spiritual talk

or publish a spiritual book unless you were sanctioned by the church, and if

you were not, they would quickly silence you. But now, even within certain

churches and religions, there are signs of change. It is heartwarming, and one

is grateful for even the slightest signs of openness, such as Pope John Paul II

visiting a mosque as well as a synagogue.

 

Partly as a result of the spiritual teachings that have arisen outside the

established religions, but also due to an influx of the ancient Eastern wisdom

teachings, a growing number of followers of traditional religions are able to

let go of identification with form, dogma, and rigid belief systems and

discover the original depth that is hidden within their own spiritual tradition

at the same time as they discover the depth within themselves. They realize

that how “spiritual” you are has nothing to do with what you believe but

everything to do with your state of consciousness. This, in turn, determines

how you act in the world and interact with others.

 

Those unable to look beyond form become even more deeply

entrenched in their beliefs, that is to say, in their mind. We are witnessing not

only an unprecedented influx of consciousness at this time but also an

entrenchment and intensification of the ego. Some religious institutions will

be open to the new consciousness; others will harden their doctrinal

positions and become part of all those other man*made structures through

which the collective ego will defend itself and “fight back.” Some churches,

sects, cults, or religious movements are basically collective egoic entities, as

rigidly identified with their mental positions as the followers of any political

ideology that is closed to any alternative interpretation of reality.

 

But the ego is destined to dissolve, and all its ossified structures,

whether they be religious or other institutions, corporations, or governments,

will disintegrate from within, no matter how deeply entrenched they appear

to be. The most rigid structures, the most impervious to change, will collapse

first. This has already happened in the case of Soviet Communism. How

deeply entrenched, how solid and monolithic it appeared, and yet within a

few years, it disintegrated from within. No one foresaw this. All were taken

by surprise. There are many more such surprises in store for us.

 

THE URGENCY OF TRANSFORMATION

When faced with a radical crisis, when the old way of being in the

world, of interacting with each other and with the realm of nature doesn’t

work anymore, when survival is threatened by seemingly insurmountable

problems, an individual life*form – or a species – will either die or become

extinct or rise above the limitations of its condition through an evolutionary

leap.

 

...

Responding to a radical crisis that threatens our very survival – this is

humanity’s challenge now. The dysfunction of the egoic human mind,

recognized already more than 2,500 years ago by the ancient wisdom

teachers and now magnified through science and technology, is for the first

time threatening the survival of the planet. Until very recently, the

transformation of human consciousness – also pointed to by the ancient

teachers – was no more than a possibility, realized by a few rare individuals

here and there, irrespective of cultural or religious background. A

widespread flowering of human consciousness did not happen because it was

not yet imperative.

 

A significant portion of the earth’s population will soon recognize, if

they haven’t already done so, that humanity is now faced with a stark choice:

Evolve or die. A still relatively small but rapidly growing percentage of

humanity is already experiencing within themselves the breakup of the old

egoic mind patterns and the emergence of a new dimension of

consciousness.

 

What is arising now is not a new belief system, a new religion,

spiritual ideology, or mythology. We are coming to the end not only of

mythologies but also of ideologies and belief systems. The change goes

deeper than the content of your mind, deeper than your thoughts. In fact, at

the heart of the new consciousness is the transcendence of thought, the

newfound ability of rising above thought, of realizing a dimension within

yourself that is infinitely more vast than thought. You then no longer derive

your identity, your sense of who you are, from the incessant stream of

thinking that in the old consciousness you take to be yourself. What a

liberation to realize that the “voice in my head” is not who I am. Who am I

then? The one who sees that. The awareness that is prior to thought, the

space in which the thought – or the emotion or sense perception – happens.

 

Ego is no more than this: identification with form, which primarily

means thought forms. If evil has any reality – and it has a relative, not an

absolute, reality – this is also its definition: complete identification with

form – physical forms, thought forms, emotional forms. This results in a total

unawareness of my connectedness with the whole, my intrinsic oneness with

every “other” as well as with the Source. This forgetfulness is original sin,

suffering, delusion. When this delusion of utter separateness underlies and

governs whatever I think, say, and do, what kind of world do I create? To

find the answer to this, observe how humans relate to each other, read a

history book, or watch the news on television tonight.

 

Eckhart Tolle

https://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:YqksHzZXWggJ:jodilley.com/ANE/ANE.pdf+eckhart+tolle+a+new+earth&hl=en&gl=us&pid=bl&srcid=ADGEESg0qL6EvdN_D2Jg0hprrVEeyk66npARd_bF0bsp9JCLhAPm1eexZgpNhxIGZxtCEigGSotlMcz3Url7P1nItBEgIDZYgKv0o0ADTwL9_jUbGszuQabNFKQ4jvkJJq53TWoT_4IG&sig=AHIEtbTsgju5jlQROqraEfjA65qp9rlpmA

[Colonel B 10]

Well that was quite the novel. I didn't read more then 3 sentences in the whole thing. I saw some stuff in there about religion so I guess it might be some sermon.

 

Honestly I am here on TL and so my attention span isn't what it use to be. Please next time please don't use big words, extreme length, and please add pictures.

 

I have to know 1 thing. Did you cut and paste that yourself or did you write it out using your own ideas?

[zdo 20]

Well that was quite the novel. I didn't read more then 3 sentences in the whole thing. I saw some stuff in there about religion so I guess it might be some sermon.

 

Honestly I am here on TL and so my attention span isn't what it use to be. Please next time please don't use big words, extreme length, and please add pictures.

 

I have to know 1 thing. Did you cut and paste that yourself or did you write it out using your own ideas?

 

... has virtually nothing to do with religion - besides getting beyond it.

 

I pasted it but didn't put it in quote box... citation at the bottom

 

Don't waste your time reading it ... the world ends tomorrow anyways

[Colonel B 10]

Ok good. Well here is something to watch to pass the time till the end.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11fcg543Jow]Guy shoots himself with a Glock 18 17 Converted - YouTube[/ame]

 

Enjoy!

[Colonel B 10]

and who says gun control is using 2 hands. LOL

[SIUYA 11]

zdo - dont you mean those who have stereo typed themselves?

we all do, what else is there to do

it is part of human biology/physiology - look for patterns extrapolation etc, evolution has not caught up yet.

 

and until the world awakens from its insanity (according to some, these guys keep coming up over time dont they - we are at a turning point) - maybe its worth trying to disarm those who are just that little more insane than the others - or those whose egos really get the better of them selves......especially after the bushmaster gun adverts practically told Adam to do it....ironic right.

:roll eyes::roll eyes:

(given dinosaurs according to some were around for 140million years, we only about 1million we might have some ways to go)

 

if only there was the red or blue pill ...........or maybe you are just another figment in my imagination and a remnant of my past consciousness - maybe we are mere fragments of some universal collective consciousness......great - until then i still need food, water and oxygen to survive and gravity remains a real bitch.

 

Funny how those who reach enlightenment and forsake ego feel the need to tell the rest of us about it. :spam:

 

Personally - i reckon we will have this same conversation again in about 10 billion years, after the universe has collapsed in on itself, refromed through creative destruction and things might repeat again. Until then.......:beer:

[smmatrix 11]

What do you guys know about the story of Adam Lanza's father was due to testify against the Libor scandal where billions of dollars have been scammed over the last few years?

[Colonel B 10]

I thought that dinosaurs were all a lie made up by Satan?

[zdo 20]

 

Funny how those who reach enlightenment and forsake ego feel the need to tell the rest of us about it.

 

Actually only a few talk to the rest of us about it... most of them are silence...

 

...

 

Until then.......:beer: right back at you

 

All the best,

 

zdo

[Colonel B 10]

So the dinosaurs aren't a lie by Satan? I am just trying to figure it out since we have slid a little in the religious direction on this one.

[smmatrix 11]

[Tams 20]

Well that was quite the novel. I didn't read more then 3 sentences in the whole thing. I saw some stuff in there about religion so I guess it might be some sermon.

 

Honestly I am here on TL and so my attention span isn't what it use to be. Please next time please don't use big words, extreme length, and please add pictures.

 

I have to know 1 thing. Did you cut and paste that yourself or did you write it out using your own ideas?

 

I have found that I can read no more than 3 sentences in a post.

[smmatrix 11]

This link probably won't be up for long:

 

URGENT UPDATE on Connecticut Shooting « Short Little Rebel

[Colonel B 10]

In a poly sci class in at what is considered to be the most liberal university in the state I live in. It was explained to me that the correct interpretation of the second amendment would allow for private ownership of F-22 Raptors, javelin missiles, and automatic machine guns. All of this talk about who should own a 30 round magazine versus a 15 round magazine is nonsense. It use to be that the government was the big evil of the world and couldn't be trusted. Now a days its wackos shooting up schools and other civil and private groups. So much has changed really and so much hasn't.

 

Really they aren't trying to take our guns away. No my friend they are trying to take your guns away. There is an old saying that either holds true today or is out dated. It goes something like this " The pen is mightier then the sword." My interpretation of this is simply that intelligence is stronger then violence. Is the problem with guns? I don't think so. I think its a problem with intelligence and even to the point of communication.

 

As a people I think we have lost our way and need to clean our own house. Its clear to me that this day in age that the politicians of today lack the intelligence to craft something so bold as to stand the test of time as the constitution. Let alone even understand it and what it says or means. Honestly it has taken many years to come close to a decision on a budget and it looks like they can't even manage that. This is across all parties not just Dems. I think we have bigger problems then guns. Gun violence is the result of other problems IMO.

[smmatrix 11]

In a poly sci class in at what is considered to be the most liberal university in the state I live in. It was explained to me that the correct interpretation of the second amendment would allow for private ownership of F-22 Raptors, javelin missiles, and automatic machine guns..

 

I don't see how the 2nd amendment can be misinterpreted. It clarifies which type of weapons in the rights as those that can be "kept and bear".

 

There's not possible way to "bear" a F-22 fighter aircraft or a missile.

 

Whatever you can, as an individual, keep and bear on your person should be allowed within reason of course.

[Tams 20]

even if USA ban all the assaults, and fully auto and hi cap mags, there are enough quantity out in the public hands that it will make the ban on paper only. there will be absolutely no effect on how the lunatics operate whatsoever. people will still die of gun shot wounds, and the gun zealots will come out to say, see, i told you so.

[MightyMouse 12]

 

Freedom for all! Except my black slaves until we have class warfare.

[MightyMouse 12]

This link probably won't be up for long:

 

URGENT UPDATE on Connecticut Shooting « Short Little Rebel

 

Christianity has no place on this thread. It seems like your mind jumbles all things together into one conservative doctrine in favor of the NRA.

[Colonel B 10]

As far as the clarification on the second amendment to smmatrix. Your interpretation is a bit off. The purpose behind it in the first place was to be able to defend against the government military. So yea a missile launcher to take out tanks is reasonable under those terms. Here is a video of a famous justice. Worth watching both clips at least for 10 minutes especially the second link.

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3pcNmuK0mU]Justice Scalia Writes Guide for Interpreting the Law - YouTube[/ame]

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DaoLMW5AF4Y]Uncommon Knowledge with Justice Antonin Scalia - YouTube[/ame]

[smmatrix 11]

even if USA ban all the assaults, and fully auto and hi cap mags, there are enough quantity out in the public hands that it will make the ban on paper only. there will be absolutely no effect on how the lunatics operate whatsoever. people will still die of gun shot wounds, and the gun zealots will come out to say, see, i told you so.

 

Exactly Tams! And, the lib-nuts will always blame the guns rather than pointing to the real problems!

 

[smmatrix 11]

Christianity has no place on this thread. It seems like your mind jumbles all things together into one conservative doctrine in favor of the NRA.

 

EXCUSE ME, but Christianity HAS NOTHING to do with this person blogging some lessor known facts about the Connecticut massacre:

URGENT UPDATE on Connecticut Shooting « Short Little Rebel

 

Just because I'm a buddhist, doesn't mean I can't post my opinions and facts of events... and I'm a big boy to keep Buddha out of it. Or, do you feel only lib-nut atheists are allowed to post? Are you trying to take that right away too?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

-

Edited December 20, 2012 by smmatrix

[Tams 20]

 

we are living in the land of republic, we are governed by law, not by men. There is no need to bear arms to ward off the tyranny of a dictatorship government.

 

unless you still see the possibility of a dictatorship, then you are saying your laws are not good laws because it cannot be trusted and that there are holes in them that would allow the possibility of a tyranny dictatorship, and that you think by bearing arms, you can avoid a tyranny dictatorship better than the courts.

[zdo 20]

i told you so

Gun Grabbers Call For Re-Education Programs In Public Schools

 

 

btw... what's a gun zealot? how is that different from a gun nut ?

 

zdo