Trade While Holding on to Your Day Job

[straddle 10]

In this crazy world a paycheck is more important than chassing crazy profits , however if you have some experience and you like trading you can do some trading on the side .

 

How can you do that when you are occupied during trading hours ???

 

I guess you do your homework on the weekends and your focus is longer term . You dont trade based on the day but rather on the week or the 15 days .

 

But how exactly do you go about it ?? Do you put a blind order before market opening just in case the "product" reaches your target price ??

 

The obvious answer is trade with the help of a broker (an actual person) but after a while the broker will start taking initiatives and before you know it you dont trade anymore but rather the broker trades with your money .

 

Any ideas on how to accomodate trading with a full time job you dont want to lose??

 

PS In this thread the topic starter loses all signals because he has to work http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/14437-exit.html

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

In this crazy world a paycheck is more important than chassing crazy profits , however if you have some experience and you like trading you can do some trading on the side .

 

How can you do that when you are occupied during trading hours ???

 

I guess you do your homework on the weekends and your focus is longer term . You dont trade based on the day but rather on the week or the 15 days .

 

But how exactly do you go about it ?? Do you put a blind order before market opening just in case the "product" reaches your target price ??

 

The obvious answer is trade with the help of a broker (an actual person) but after a while the broker will start taking initiatives and before you know it you dont trade anymore but rather the broker trades with your money .

 

Any ideas on how to accomodate trading with a full time job you dont want to lose??

 

PS In this thread the topic starter loses all signals because he has to work http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/14437-exit.html

 

Hello,

 

If you're trading a mechanical method end of day then you could just get someone else to place trades for you - a friend or spouse or whatever. Provided they're set up to clearly recognise an unambiguous entry or exit signaland understand the importance of following the system then that might be preferrable to a broker. I did this for nearly a year with someone else placing trades because I lived somewhere so remote that there was no reliable broadband internet connection.

 

Hope that suggestion is helpful.

 

BlueHorseshoe

[zdo 20]

Straddle, I trade full time …have traded intraday full time for years and the markets typically look ‘dead’ to me. (I love sheer parabolic :rofl: ). But, even though they are what I consider ‘dead’ these days, I still would not advise someone to trade futures without being able to stay with it real time… maybe small positions in mini’s …

 

…but I do have a couple of 10:1 leveraged accounts that could be traded by someone in the situation you described. One of them is currently being used, along with other automated systems in other accounts, to exploit the 2 – 8 AM Eastern time period in FX – a time most US traders wouldn’t be at work anyways….

 

This way uses 3 hour charts and can be looked at just one or two times a day. I typically spend about 15 minutes net in the account per day near lunch or afternoon break. Most of that time is used referring to sizing spreadsheet and almost zero time in analysis – once I get the next size figured out, I often just flash click orders near (old fashioned) SR’s and targets near eyeball ratios…etc .

ie For these accounts it’s not cost effective for me to do much ‘homework’, but developing traders could do all the ‘homework’ they want and / or have time for in the evening or early morning. … like.... I’m ‘off work’ and on ‘automation’ at that time of night, but for someone in this situation this way would really be conducive to order placement during the asian session, ie just before most US bedtimes and then he wouldn’t have to look at it again until next night (or first coffee break at work )

 

The way trades 16 FX instruments and typically is in an average of about 10 positions. Holding time in positions ranges from minutes to weeks with the good trades typically lasting at least 2 or 3 days +. I use a ‘clean’ price chart (but it does have one indicator in lower panel). I use stops in only about 15% of the trades. Risk of ruin is minimal. It uses small, progressive size scaling (ie pyramiding via declining size with each with-trend entry and increasing size with each contra-trend entry). Exits are managed via resting ( limit and (lazy) trailing stop) orders and if they are filled in alignment with my projections of PA and targets and price is still nearby when I come in to the account in the afternoon, then I tend to go ahead and manually get all out the rest of the position - but with some extra (home)work one could step out of positions more incrementally and profitably (maybe).

 

Point is - it’s doable for someone in a situation similar to the one you illustrated above. The way/account I described is up over 40% every year for last 4 years… and over 60% ytd this year… with peak historical unrealized p/l at -15%(under the current sizing algos) - and that state lasted less than a two weeks… usually unrealized p/l goes to +- - 3% then comes back…

 

...since we all only have a few more until the end of the world... ya'll have a great weekend.

:missy:

 

btw: born on 11/16/07 ... today is my 5th TL birthday ... wonder how many lives I've screwed up ? not a one... they screwed their own lives up... wonder how many lives I've enhanced? not a one... they enhanced their own lives

Edited November 16, 2012 by zdo
fix and add

[Tams 20]

In this crazy world a paycheck is more important than chassing crazy profits , however if you have some experience and you like trading you can do some trading on the side .

 

How can you do that when you are occupied during trading hours ???

 

I guess you do your homework on the weekends and your focus is longer term . You dont trade based on the day but rather on the week or the 15 days .

 

But how exactly do you go about it ?? Do you put a blind order before market opening just in case the "product" reaches your target price ??

 

The obvious answer is trade with the help of a broker (an actual person) but after a while the broker will start taking initiatives and before you know it you dont trade anymore but rather the broker trades with your money .

 

Any ideas on how to accomodate trading with a full time job you dont want to lose??

 

PS In this thread the topic starter loses all signals because he has to work http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/14437-exit.html

 

depending on what you mean by "trading"?

 

do you mean intraday trading of futures?

 

NO WAY

 

don't kid yourself.

 

95% of the people can't do it staring at the monitor full time, what makes you think you are more superior than them?

 

 

If you like your regular pay check...

don't ruin it.

if you spend even a little bit of your attention trading, you are likely to underperform in your day job, and you will get into trouble with your boss sooner then later.

 

My advice:

 

1. don't even think about trading

 

2. think investment, think buy-and-hold

 

3. spend your spare time with your family and friends

 

4. spend your extra cash (while you have it) on yourself and your love ones. If you do not listen to this, come back one year from now and read this post again. You will wish you had spent your money as I directed, because the market is ruthless, it will take your money, and more.

 

 

enjoy!

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

depending on what you mean by "trading"?

 

do you mean intraday trading of futures?

 

NO WAY

 

don't kid yourself.

 

95% of the people can't do it staring at the monitor full time, what makes you think you are more superior than them?

 

 

If you like your regular pay check...

don't ruin it.

if you spend even a little bit of your attention trading, you are likely to underperform in your day job, and you will get into trouble with your boss sooner then later.

 

My advice:

 

1. don't even think about trading

 

2. think investment, think buy-and-hold

 

3. spend your spare time with your family and friends

 

4. spend your extra cash (while you have it) on yourself and your love ones. If you do not listen to this, come back one year from now and read this post again. You will wish you had spent your money as I directed, because the market is ruthless, it will take your money, and more.

 

 

enjoy!

 

Hi Tams,

 

Do you think a mechanical end-of-day approach is practically unworkable then (apart from the risk of losing lots of money as you rightly point out)?

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Tams 20]

Hi Tams,

 

Do you think a mechanical end-of-day approach is practically unworkable then (apart from the risk of losing lots of money as you rightly point out)?

 

BlueHorseshoe

 

Anything is possible... everything is relative; it all depends on your account size and risk tolerance.

 

The reason people trade futures is because of the leverage.

Leverage is a double edged sword.

 

I would not recommend any newbie to trade futures overnight.

 

For the OP... If you have to ask... you are not ready.

[straddle 10]

Thank you all for you answers . I guess you are right about futures being out of the question . They are risky and open positions need a margin . It is just that you can short the market with futures . I guess only stocks and options trading is right for me . Propably I will need to do alo of paper trading and see if I can pull this of . First I will browse the forum to collect info.

[SIUYA 11]

Futures offer leverage - but that does not mean you have to use it.

Unless of course you are undercapitalised.

 

As to how to trade while hanging on to your day job.....

Well 1) either have a day job that allows you to constantly monitor the markets, or

2) spend any time you have researching the markets looking only at strategies that allow you to set and forget.eg; trend following, swing trading over 2+ days.....otherwise day trading is a waste of time IMHO - it requires a different set of skills and viewpoint.

[BlueHorseshoe 10]

Thank you all for you answers . I guess you are right about futures being out of the question . They are risky and open positions need a margin . It is just that you can short the market with futures . I guess only stocks and options trading is right for me . Propably I will need to do alo of paper trading and see if I can pull this of . First I will browse the forum to collect info.

 

Have you looked at ETFs at all? This could solve the leverage problem and I believe they're usually fairly easy to short (although I have no direct experience with them).

 

BlueHorseshoe

[Steve66 10]

You can build a swing trading strategy that works for your situation. There are lots of traders that have full time jobs. With today's mobile apps and alerts you can make it happen. Find a platform that has what you need and go for it.

[4EverMaAT 10]

as blue hinted at earlier, if your system is mechanical you can automate the repetitive processes, but with computer program instead of human labor.

[wrbtrader 10]

In this crazy world a paycheck is more important than chassing crazy profits , however if you have some experience and you like trading you can do some trading on the side .

 

How can you do that when you are occupied during trading hours ???

 

I guess you do your homework on the weekends and your focus is longer term . You dont trade based on the day but rather on the week or the 15 days .

 

 

In your particular situation, only trade markets that do not interfere with the work hours of your day job if your primary source of income is your day job. Yet, that implies when you're in a trade it will obviously overlap in your personal life (social life, family life, sleep routine and so on).

 

I don't recommend opening and closing positions while at your day job. Thus, no trading while at work unless you have the technology to do such and that such will not get you in trouble with your job when caught doing such.

Edited November 18, 2012 by wrbtrader

[JEHs 10]

A great book with a cheesy title that would make you never consider buying it:

How I Made $2, 000, 000 in the Stock Market: Nicolas Darvas: 9781614271697: Amazon.com: Books

 

A chart is a chart. I position trade off weekly and daily charts. Mostly ETFs. You can not make a living this way unless you have a ton of money, but it is a good way to manage a small investment account and get the hang of getting to know price action and watching the charts. An hour or less in the evenings would be enough.

I enter using a stop order if markets break through a certain price. Usually I like to be there at the open though to make sure market is not making a crazy gap or something.

 

I also trade off daily and hourly charts. This requires looking in a few times a day and you have to realize that you will just miss some here and there because you aren't in the right place and time, but it still helps to learn the price action. That is the main thing.

 

I don't know anything about mechanical trading...

 

The main thing, if you are just starting, is top spend a lot of time just watching charts. Forget about trading.

[goodoboy 10]

In this crazy world a paycheck is more important than chassing crazy profits , however if you have some experience and you like trading you can do some trading on the side .

 

How can you do that when you are occupied during trading hours ???

 

I guess you do your homework on the weekends and your focus is longer term . You dont trade based on the day but rather on the week or the 15 days .

 

But how exactly do you go about it ?? Do you put a blind order before market opening just in case the "product" reaches your target price ??

 

The obvious answer is trade with the help of a broker (an actual person) but after a while the broker will start taking initiatives and before you know it you dont trade anymore but rather the broker trades with your money .

 

Any ideas on how to accomodate trading with a full time job you dont want to lose??

 

PS In this thread the topic starter loses all signals because he has to work http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/beginners-forum/14437-exit.html

 

Working full time a job = guaranteed money

 

Trading = maybe you win maybe you don't

 

I will never leave my full time job or trade futures again while working. Not worth the stress or money.

[barako 10]

the good thing about trading its flexible, I have my day job and i still trade with hotforex, i dont scalp since its time consuming but i manage to squeez a couple of swings every now and then and watch the charts go.

[Savant 10]

the good thing about trading its flexible, I have my day job and i still trade with hotforex, i dont scalp since its time consuming but i manage to squeez a couple of swings every now and then and watch the charts go.

 

I think there is very hard line when one must decide to leave a steady job and just focus on forex... I guess you start trading with different mind-set after you do so...

[4EverMaAT 10]

I think there is very hard line when one must decide to leave a steady job and just focus on forex... I guess you start trading with different mind-set after you do so...

 

the good thing about trading its flexible, I have my day job and i still trade with hotforex, i dont scalp since its time consuming but i manage to squeez a couple of swings every now and then and watch the charts go.

 

I have to agree with Savant to an extent. With forex trading, there tends to be a 'detached' mindset that comes with it; you have to let go to get the maximum benefit from your trades. If you trade without fear, that's one thing. But if you find yourself unable to sleep at night, you are trading with too much risk!

 

One way to reduce the stress also is to reduce your living expenses. Usually rent and food are the two largest reoccurring expenses for a trader. This may not work for everyone, but going to a lower-cost country will significantly. Expat's choices would be thailand or Columbia, although you might find comfort in different places.

[Obsidian 10]

...Expat's choices would be thailand or Columbia, although you might find comfort in different places.

 

I can say that Thailand is the best if you want trade during the London session

[4EverMaAT 10]

I can say that Thailand is the best if you want trade during the London session

 

It's even better when you want to spend your profits after trading hours :o.

[Obsidian 10]

It's even better when you want to spend your profits after trading hours :o.

 

ok I will make it short, thailand is the best

[Tams 20]

ok I will make it short, thailand is the best

 

you can have a beach side massage while you trade LOL

[Obsidian 10]

you can have a beach side massage while you trade LOL

 

LOL did that some weeks ago on a lovely island near here, not trading part though...

[Tams 20]

LOL did that some weeks ago on a lovely island near here, not trading part though...

 

I visited Thailand a few time... it is a wonderful place.

spent some time in Phuket and the islands.

Played about 30 golf courses in and around BBK.

Will take the train and travel north next time.

[Obsidian 10]

I visited Thailand a few time... it is a wonderful place.

spent some time in Phuket and the islands.

Played about 30 golf courses in and around BBK.

Will take the train and travel north next time.

 

that is a great plan...there are cool places to see around Chiang Mai and Chiang Rai area

[sweet n´sour 10]

Successful trading besides a day job is definitely possible.

 

I would recommend to trade Forex on the 4 charts. You can do this by looking at the charts twice a day for 15 -30 minutes (for ex. after breakfast and before dinner). You can put in orders for entry and exist of new positions and manage open trades (adjusting trailing stops etc.). If you trade wisely multiple pairs simultaneously you have a certain degree of diversification and you make up for missing some opportunities because you cannot watch the whole day. If you are day trading (scalping) you can focus just on one or two instruments but with a 4 hour time frame you can overlook and manage many different currency pairs (+ Spot Gold depending on the broker).

Depending on your capital you choose to trade with micro lots, which makes it easy to adjust the risk very carefully, so that you are not over leveraged even with many different open positions.

However, you should find a style or system, that trades mainly on and off certain price levels rather than on indicators or moving averages alone, because price levels are fixed and therefore need no permanent attention like constantly changing indicators.

You should look into gartly patterns, measured moves (AB = CD) etc.