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karinka

MP and Electronics Trading

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This is the first day of plotting these kind of bars.

EL(or anyone that cares to), if you see this I was wondering if you could offer any enlightenment on them. They seem to be significant when the high volume node is at one extreme and the bar close is the other way.

TIA

 

Images | ChartHub.com

This is the stuff I look at inside the bar with MD.

 

I first lookj at the left spine of the bar to see whether its a red or green candle. Your first one, a red candle, is fairly representative. You see the highest volume near the open of the bar shawing the bid was hit with the bar's highest volume near its open. I then look at the other stuff \i speak abot in my blog.

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Guest da Vinci Like

Hello,

 

I am a little new to EL's setup but I think he keeps it really simple, which is great.

 

Here is how I document each ES trading day to learn the patterns of the market.

 

Snips of my Market Profile and Market Delta Bid/Ask Footprint charts have been pasted in key areas.

 

If this helps anyone I can post more. This is part of my daily routine. The day is 3-10-10, which was a normal variation day in my opinion.

 

Art

5aa70ff33188a_3-10-10NormalVariation.thumb.jpg.5931480c8cdc6a891963658857d4825d.jpg

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Seems like a lot of money to pay to someone who hasn't called a single trade live and only marks up charts after the fact.

 

It may seem steep, but consider the fact that he has laid out his strategy for months on end at absolutely no charge. This is basically an offer for people that either can't or don't want to take the time and make the signals their own through trial and error. I personally don't find value in spending money on a trading mentor, but he has the right to put a value on his time if he chooses. If he made the offer and no one replied, he would realize that people don't value his time the same as he does. It sounds to me that he has had enough interest to move forward with it, so kudos to that!

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Okay, it often happens. "EL" seems like a good guy. I've read many of his blog entries and have some questions about the trades. The entries are often late in the trade. The P, b, patterns have been proved unreliable statistically by Tom Alexander. Market Delta is an interesting software product. Anyone who has traded on the floor will tell you that buying and selling at the bid/ask is not indicative of market direction--especially on lower time frames. Big money may be bidding up a market only to turn around and sell it. That's a fact Jack.

 

I was waiting for the money shoe to fall. Little money mgt., and too much more is not present in the blog to convince me that this training will be successful. He's been on the web for less than a year. No one is CP definitively in a few months. The successful traders testimony is not reliable--essentially it is equivalent to a placebo. Markets change and traders disappear like that.

 

I won't carry on or try to discredit anyone. Buyer beware. Ask questions. Don't be afraid of offending him, or perhaps shattering your dreams of suddenly becoming a trader. It don't happen that way pal. I'm tellin' ya, it ain't gonna happen.

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First, let me repeat what I said in the blog announcing the training:

 

I DO NOT want to start a trading education business, or be a seller of trader training CDs, and I don't want to sell indicators or a book or sell training webinars. and neither does Kiki. I'm a trader first, last and until I can no longer put on a trade. But, the emails asking for training, mentoring and coaching continue to roll into my inbox in a steady stream. So I think we have some unfinished business.

 

This is a once only deal and then I think I have fullfilled my resposibilities to this industry that has given me a good life.

 

Training of traders in our industry has been markedly unsuccessful and still 90% or so, may be more, fail. Why? They haven't been taught what it takes to become consistently profitable (CP) traders..

 

The blog has been going since October when the training of my daughter jumnped into gear. Since then, I have received probably about a dozen emails from traders saying that what they learned along with Kiki in the blog took them to CP.

 

That doesn't mean that everyone who I train will become CP. Some people will fail because they will not do the work required, others because they want tot take short cuts and not follow the program. Finally, and perhaps the biggest group, will fail because they have to make money from day one, can't internalise that there are losing trades and are totally undercapitalised not just for margin but for living costs.

 

The blog has a Google search built in and when I just used it, there were 14 posts about money management. This is one of the keys to CP. Using range bars makes this easier as I show in the blog.

 

My two wished for this effort are that everyone who wants to has the opportunity of taking the training. I won't be offering it again. It's hard yakka as we say in Oz and I'm taking a 50% pay cut as the other wish of the effort is to be able to give as much to my charities as I can.

 

So in this cynical year of 2010, you pays your money and you takes your chance but read the blog of the last 8 months, I hope it takes you all to CP and if what you have read sounds genuine and you think more of the same, some of it 1 to 1, will take you to CP, take the trade and join the training, even though there is no stop loss.

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Hello Tom, my experience with new traders is that, assuming that are presented with a profitable technique, will not be profitable for a meaningful period of time. They are going to need you six months or 18 months down the road when they hit the washboard at 90 mph.

 

I read enough. I might give 1 or 2 of your students a chance, given their persistence and experience, etc.. Who taught you? No one I'm willing to bet. You learned to trade from the school of hard knocks. These guys haven't likely stood across from a trader who would pick his pocket and smile and look him dead on in the eye.

 

I saw the pitch coming after the third or fifth time reading this. Students send you half the fee and the balance directly to a foundation? I'm not afraid to ask. Remember Gary Smith? He traded about $15k to $75k in the early 90's--by following the live feed running across the bottom of the screen on MSNBC. Gary produced broker statements. That's a "stand up guy" in my book.

 

I've watched traders pick up checks $10 or $20 grand for a Vegas weekend. I also know traders who were putting $10k in the bank everyday who are now brokers--$60k margin calls.

 

It's pointless to argue about it. I'm putting forward what I've seen in the course of my experience. There is a cost of doing business. I don't know you. I know floor traders, floor traders with traders upstairs executing the other leg of a spread trade. I've seen order flow traders--they don't use charts or T&S, just DOMs.

 

I know traders who are successful, but not necessarily good teachers. Yes, you can give a student a nudge. They remain on their own when it comes to achieving success. Is this worth the cost to them? I'm not convinced.

 

I do know that saving money by learning to trade without spending too much on resources, losing and starting over, is the smart road. If your account is $25k or more you have a much better chance of success. Hold on to your money is my advice. I've read, more than once, that the average retail account is about $3000.00 and the reason brokers are always on the phone looking for new clients. Does that ring a bell anyone?

 

Good luck. I don't wish anyone ill. Trading is a hard. There's no hand holding, a place for persistence and innovation. Often successful traders are the ones with a unique novel approach.

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Hi btfox, your observations aare very sound and I agree with a lot of them. Th is is not an easy business. In my 30 plus years, I have taught a number of traders to trade successfully so I have my own experience.

 

To be frank, training people is not the most fun I've had. I'd rather just trade. In the past, I did it with people I was doing a favour to for one reason or another. This time it's to finish something I started that grew into something I did not predict.

 

We will go through how to create a setup, triggers, backtesting to validate and the thought processes I go through at during the bar when the setup has come together and evaluating it against the context to decide if it should be triggered at the close of the bar.

 

I would not knowingly embark on a fool's errand. I don't just teach a technique. They are a dime a dozen. If it only needed a technique then there would be 90% of traders that are successful and 10% losers, not the other way around. What I hope to do is teach the students, most of whom are not newbies but guys with years of experience albeit not successful, how to take that step of putting a technique into practice and laying out the steps to consistent profitability.

 

We have almost 4 months together to do this. And I'm not going to be a stranger after that.

 

Will they all become consistently profitable? l? Probably not as I said in the previous post. However, I do expect some to achieve that within the 4 months and others not too long afterwards.

 

As you correctly pointed out, trader beware. Although $5k is not a lot of money for 4 months of training, intending students need to evaluate themselves and decide if they have the time, the hunger and the attitude to undertake an endeavour where 90% of their fellow human beings fail. Of course they need to evaluate whether they think I can deliver my side. For that they have almost 200 blog posts and a 2 hour video.

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There are two quotes that come to mind when deciding to spend hard earned cash on training....

 

The first is "Self praise is no praise." If a trainer comes with a recommendations and objective observations from someone you personally know and whose judgment you respect then you can make a better "informed" decision.

 

The second is "Trust but verify." There should be hard evidence other than the trainer's own words to support their "track record" claims. This can be accomplished in a number of ways, from verified and audited trading statements to live trading observations with full disclosure in advance and no after the fact claims.

 

I am not trying to diminish EL's reputation, only offering a few basic "due diligence" suggestions to anyone considering sending money to any trainer or mentor.

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I must say I have been a little disappointed with the EL blog.

 

When I first found it I was very happy to see what I thought was a true breath of fresh air.

 

Unfortunately it has developed into the usual mentoring service.

 

Now in itself I suppose you shouldn't ever be able to get something for nothing, but I think it has been the timing that has got me. Everything seems to have been planned right to the day, slowly tempting people in.

 

What concerns me is for someone who has been trading for so long, with such a solid method, why do the indicators change - and markets that are traded are very variable. Lastly has there ever been a losing day?

 

Probably I'm unfair - but it's made me wonder once again if there really is anyone out there actually trading profitably.

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You are unfair.

 

The knowledge presented in the blog made me a better trader, that's for sure.

 

Probably I'm unfair - but it's made me wonder once again if there really is anyone out there actually trading profitably.

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What concerns me is for someone who has been trading for so long, with such a solid method, why do the indicators change - and markets that are traded are very variable. Lastly has there ever been a losing day?

 

Probably I'm unfair - but it's made me wonder once again if there really is anyone out there actually trading profitably.

 

bobajob, Nothing has changed in the methodology. its always been range bars, order flow and momentum. I originally used only multicharts but have switched to MarketDelta for the better way it identifies volume delta.

 

Healthy sceptacism based on fact is OK by me. I'm pleased with the information I provided in the blog and I'm happy to have helped people become CP (consistently profitable) and hopefully can continue doing that as well as helping the charities I support.

 

I'll be staying in contact with the attendees of my training and will look forward to see their achievent to CP. I know it will take some longer than others but I believe that what and how I am teaching will drastically shorten that quantum leap from almost CP to CP.

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First, let me repeat what I said in the blog announcing the training:

 

I DO NOT want to start a trading education business, or be a seller of trader training CDs, and I don't want to sell indicators or a book or sell training webinars. and neither does Kiki. I'm a trader first, last and until I can no longer put on a trade. But, the emails asking for training, mentoring and coaching continue to roll into my inbox in a steady stream. So I think we have some unfinished business.

 

This is a once only deal and then I think I have fullfilled my resposibilities to this industry that has given me a good life.

 

Things that make you go hmmm :confused:

 

I thought it was only a one time deal?

 

We are very excited to announce n October 24, 25, 26 we are holding a live training event with Tom Barton of ElectronicLocal

 

• When: October 24, 25, 26 (Sunday, Monday, & Tuesday)

• Subject Matter: The ElectronicLocal’s Methodology for achieving Consistent Profitability

• Price: $2500. A similar event offered by EL in July cost $5000. Seating is limited.

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...

 

• subject matter: The electroniclocal’s methodology for achieving consistent profitability

how: by charging $5000. Seating is limited.

 

 

amazzzzzzzzing...............

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Just an update. We finished the 3 weeks of webinat training. As of today, many of the attendees are SIM trading (some live trading) with a 70%+ win rate and profitable.

 

Just to make it clear, we recorded the three weeks which involved me calling trades live throught the period in order to identify the pictures to trade and how to manage them. In a blog the reader cannot see the way the markets unfold. In the webinar I was able to take many live trades every day and then show how to manage them. Everything is based on what I have shown in the blog over the last 10 months. However, I do believe that getting proper training and mentoring will reduce the learning curve to reach CP (consistent profitability) to months from either years or never if a structured and tested training methodology is used. Just showing setups has been proved to be useless as the attrition rate amongst traders remains over 90%.

 

EL

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Yes, it was only a one time deal. I spent 3 weeks and am now providing 90 days of mentoring to 25 traders. I had to turn people away as we were oversubscribed.

 

Strangely, when something works really well, people come out of the wood work to find it. Consistent Profitability is achievable if taught in the right way and if the student puts in the work in accordance with a structured and effective program.

I have another daughter who is a corporate trainer. She asked me to involve her in trader training at the same time that I was asked to do a seminar for MarketDelta - only 3 days not 3 months. Its one of my best friend's birthday at the end of October and I'll be there for that so having a busman's holiday.

 

I did enjoy teaching. It not only made a difference to a lot of people but improved my trading too. I'm happy to do a few of weeks of training every year with my daughter managing it and me only having to trade and teach.

 

What was that Bond movie called: "Never say never"?

 

 

Things that make you go hmmm :confused:

 

I thought it was only a one time deal?

 

We are very excited to announce n October 24, 25, 26 we are holding a live training event with Tom Barton of ElectronicLocal

 

• When: October 24, 25, 26 (Sunday, Monday, & Tuesday)

• Subject Matter: The ElectronicLocal’s Methodology for achieving Consistent Profitability

• Price: $2500. A similar event offered by EL in July cost $5000. Seating is limited.

Edited by electroniclocal
typo

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more of the same from the other side. somewhat similar pattern on the vwap extreme. Much prefer the slow cci divergence for those outside in trades. However if there is something to lean on, wth.

Arrows on the chart are not trades, just markers for misc. paramaters of ELism.

5aa7104338c8f_es_5r11-11b.thumb.png.a5b6f82c034daaaaf6fd7de3445f7c3f.png

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