Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

brownsfan019

Trading the Grains - Soy, Corn, Wheat

Recommended Posts

One thing that really helped my equity curve become more smooth was using markets where the best opportunities exist. I'll dive into this some other time, but I wanted to bring to focus trading the grains (Soybeans, Corn, Wheat) contracts as weapons in your arsenal when you go to battle each day.

 

Some characteristics of these markets that I've noticed:

  • Open @ 10:30am EST (very convenient to roll to these marekts once other markets have been open for a bit)
  • These contracts move and move quick on the open usually
  • Good liquidity for daytrading
  • Provide a non-correlated market to the indexes or currencies to trade

3 Main markets to choose from in this arena for daytrading purposes:

Personally, I like the movements on the ZS the best.

 

IMPORTANT TO WATCH ON GRAINS: WHEN ROLLOVER IS NEAR

In my haste to get this up I missed an important consideration when trading grains - watching when rollover occurs. When rollover is near, the volume can split over the current and future contract which can cause each contract to slow down b/c volume is split. Just be aware of when rollover is near and watch the overall volume on each contract.

 

Take a peak if you are looking for a non-correlated index market to trade. As always, watch these and practice on sim before placing any real money trades.

 

Just remember that I can't stress enough that these guys will move on the open and move swiftly waiting for no man. I would suggest using a non-time based chart (volume, tick or range) to smooth out the fluctuations a bit.

Edited by brownsfan019

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
[*]Provide a non-correlated market to trade

.

 

 

I agree they are great markets.

 

What do you mean by non correlated?

The three markets are correlated to each other, please explain.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I agree they are great markets.

 

What do you mean by non correlated?

The three markets are correlated to each other, please explain.

 

Provide a non-correlated market to the indexes or currencies to trade

 

Post edited, thanks for the question. I should have clarified better.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These are relatively cheap contracts, in comparision to Stock index futures-min tick is $12.50. If the concern is daytrading margins it really depends on your broker if they will provide daytrading margin or not.

 

Corn is the cheapest contract. price 340's

Wheat 2nd cheapest contract. price in 450's

Soybean most expensive of the three contracts.. price in the 920's

 

You can get more inforamtion on them at the CME.com, I think they are listed under Agricultural commodities, its been a while since I have visited CME/cbot so im not sure--

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not too familiar with these futures. What is the going rate right now for one contract and what is their tick in $?.

 

My original post has direct links to the CME. I went ahead and did the work for you.

;)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Brownsfan,

I was looking at the Corn futures on a 30 tick chart. Is that what you would recommend. I included the early morning move on 9-30 below.

 

Do you have any other ideas for trading these commodities profitably in the early part of the session?

 

What time frame do you usually restrict your trading on these like you do with the ES?

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=13933&stc=1&d=1254553795

5aa70f32daa96_corn9-30.thumb.JPG.a742ce8d545b91d0c99408e754f8d864.JPG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Dinero - the chart setting really is up to you and your comfort level. I would suggest opening up at least 3 different chart settings and see what you like the best:

1) Volume Chart - something like 50-250

2) Range Chart - something like 4-15

3) Tick Chart - something like 30-100

The higher the number, the slower the chart will print new candles. From there, it's a comfort level. I personally like range charts on the ZS.

 

Watch them in real-time and see what you like. Just looking at static charts is misleading b/c you might not be noticing that there are bursts of candles printed and then not much, esp. on the open.

 

Lately I've seen the ZS pretty much head in 1 direction once it's decided what that direction is (and usually doesn't take too long). If you can get on the right side, can make some quick money as this bugger doesn't wait around.

 

Good luck and let me know how it goes and what you are seeing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I new to this forum, but not the "Grains".

Here is some more food for thought on the Beans.

Look at Spread Trading "Old Crop/ New Crop".

I am setting up for the next run on the SN10/ SX10 once I see the seasonal lows kick in on the Seasonal Charts.

Just for an example, last years Old / New crop in beans was pretty profitable.

Late Dec 08 the Spread was near the ZERO line. By first week in July it was up in the 200's.

That is $50 per point, per contract. Nice run. Hope to do it again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some initial observations on ZS from an equity index trader - not in any particular order:

 

1) The overnight (I'm in the us) trading seems to be very active. I assume Asian traders are actively trading ZS.

 

2) As a globex trader I assumed opening price gaps were a thing of the past. Not so with ZS. For some reason the CME designed this contract with a 2 hour and 15 minute time gap before the open outcry session.

 

3) Trying to figure out which contact month to trade (the high volume contract), I did some volume analysis on all the contract months going back to 1/1/09. The current Nov contract has/had the daily high volume going all the way back to the first day my data vendor has data for the Nov contract - 6/29/2009. During this time, the Sept nor the Aug contacts ever exceeded the Nov's volume. Is this typical or was there something special about the Nov contract this year?

 

thanks,

mr. bojangles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Some initial observations on ZS from an equity index trader - not in any particular order:

 

1) The overnight (I'm in the us) trading seems to be very active. I assume Asian traders are actively trading ZS.

 

2) As a globex trader I assumed opening price gaps were a thing of the past. Not so with ZS. For some reason the CME designed this contract with a 2 hour and 15 minute time gap before the open outcry session.

 

3) Trying to figure out which contact month to trade (the high volume contract), I did some volume analysis on all the contract months going back to 1/1/09. The current Nov contract has/had the daily high volume going all the way back to the first day my data vendor has data for the Nov contract - 6/29/2009. During this time, the Sept nor the Aug contacts ever exceeded the Nov's volume. Is this typical or was there something special about the Nov contract this year?

 

thanks,

mr. bojangles

 

1) I suppose some overseas guys are trading afterhours. I only trade during pit hours.

2) And IMO that's why this thing will move on the open. There's built up interest while it's closed and that open gets it going quickly. I much prefer that over the 24 hours of the other globex products. I kinda wish everything was just open at 930am and closed at 415pm.

3) No idea.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm assuming there are some ZS specific economic reports to be aware of. Could you point us towards a good source to find what and when they are - a ZS economic calendar. As a minimum, to know when to step aside.

 

thanks,

mr. bojangles

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm assuming there are some ZS specific economic reports to be aware of. Could you point us towards a good source to find what and when they are - a ZS economic calendar. As a minimum, to know when to step aside.

 

thanks,

mr. bojangles

 

I pretty much focus on trading the first 30 mins or so of the ZS being open, so I'm not looking at any grain reports and what not. I'm in, out and wait till the next day to do it again.

 

With that said, if you swing trade this and/or invest in this, then I would do some serious homework on these markets before putting any real money at risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I updated the original post but wanted to give an example here showing how the volume can split when rollover is near.

 

When rollover is near on the grains and the volume is split, you should anticipate smaller moves b/c there is literally some people trading the old and some the new and there isn't as much power behind the pushes.

 

Today's example:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=14700&stc=1&d=1256828318

 

That is taken from my quote window on OEC trader and the last column is total volume for the day. As you can see, the volume is basically 50/50 at this point. As a direct result, we are seeing this type of price movement:

 

attachment.php?attachmentid=14701&stc=1&d=1256828495

 

 

So plan accordingly when you see volume split. Do not expect huge, quick movements as you see when there is just 1 contract being traded.

tl1.png.dd7bf7b04033241c26d68d223522547a.png

tl2.png.e5dc071320a98c764d1888af64456fe8.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That explains a lot. I was watching the ZS yesterday and today wondering why the large moves weren't happening. I really appreciate the post about this.

 

Just glad I thought of it now. But it was apparent today b/c I was sitting there going - come on, what the hell is going on here? I just told these guys on TL that this thing moves and then it's at a standstill. Well, rollover is the one time you may see the movements not be as much. There was still money to be made on the ZS the last 2 days, but the moves are smaller and slower.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just glad I thought of it now. But it was apparent today b/c I was sitting there going - come on, what the hell is going on here? I just told these guys on TL that this thing moves and then it's at a standstill. Well, rollover is the one time you may see the movements not be as much. There was still money to be made on the ZS the last 2 days, but the moves are smaller and slower.

 

There is always money to be made.... its a question of whether I can make it. If you would, leave some for me to make tomorrow instead of selfishly taking it all. :)

 

I am so used to stocks and still relatively unfamiliar with the rollover process. How long should it affect the volume? When do you normally switch to the new contract?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is always money to be made.... its a question of whether I can make it. If you would, leave some for me to make tomorrow instead of selfishly taking it all. :)

 

I am so used to stocks and still relatively unfamiliar with the rollover process. How long should it affect the volume? When do you normally switch to the new contract?

 

The rollover happens fairly quickly - a few days. And all futures contracts have rollover, but they vary based on what market is being traded.

 

I move to the new contract as soon as the volume there is the same or greater than the old one. I do that simply to make it easy and should I somehow forget to close a trade or something, I'm in a contract that can be closed easily b/c as soon as the volume dies on the old one, it dies big time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Yeah agree, trading with Hotforex helped me to realise how important is a trading plan. 
    • $WTRH Waitr Holdings stock strong close with a breakout watch above 3.24, volume 40% above normal , see https://stockconsultant.com/?WTRH
    • $KOPN Kopin stock strong trend with a breakout watch above 1.5 , see https://stockconsultant.com/?KOPN
    • https://nationalfile.com/dershowitz-defends-ghislaine-maxwells-character-as-he-sues-epstein-victim-for-accusing-him-of-rape/ ANOTHER DISGUSTING DECREPID PEDOPHILE FUCKING JEW CUNT NOT HUMAN just sayin'
    • Dictionary Thesaurus Medical Dictionary Legal Dictionary Financial Dictionary Acronyms Idioms Encyclopedia Wikipedia Encyclopedia Tools A A A A Language:     Mobile Apps: apple android For surfers: Free toolbar & extensions Word of the Day Bookmark Help For webmasters: Free content Linking Lookup box Close Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now. useless Also found in: Thesaurus, Medical, Legal, Idioms, Encyclopedia, Wikipedia. Related to useless: indubitably, predecessor, abruptly use·less  (yo͞os′lĭs) adj. 1. a. Being or having no beneficial use; ineffective: This pen is useless because it's out of ink. See Synonyms at futile. b. Having no purpose or reason; pointless; to no avail: It's useless to argue over matters of taste. 2. Incapable of acting or functioning effectively; ineffectual or inept: He panics easily and is useless in an emergency. use′less·ly adv. use′less·ness n. American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fifth Edition. Copyright © 2016 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved. useless (ˈjuːslɪs) adj 1. having no practical use or advantage 2. informal ineffectual, weak, or stupid: he's useless at history. ˈuselessly adv ˈuselessness n Collins English Dictionary – Complete and Unabridged, 12th Edition 2014 © HarperCollins Publishers 1991, 1994, 1998, 2000, 2003, 2006, 2007, 2009, 2011, 2014 use•less (ˈyus lɪs) adj. 1. of no use; not serving the purpose or any purpose; unavailing. 2. without useful qualities; of no practical good. [1585–95] use′less•ly, adv. use′less•ness, n. Random House Kernerman Webster's College Dictionary, © 2010 K Dictionaries Ltd. Copyright 2005, 1997, 1991 by Random House, Inc. All rights reserved. ThesaurusAntonymsRelated WordsSynonymsLegend: Switch to new thesaurus Adj. 1. useless - having no beneficial use or incapable of functioning usefully; "a kitchen full of useless gadgets"; "she is useless in an emergency" ineffective, ineffectual, uneffective - not producing an intended effect; "an ineffective teacher"; "ineffective legislation" unprofitable - producing little or no profit or gain; "deposits abandoned by mining companies as unprofitable" unserviceable - not ready for service; "unserviceable equipment may be replaced" useful, utile - being of use or service; "the girl felt motherly and useful"; "a useful job"; "a useful member of society" Based on WordNet 3.0, Farlex clipart collection. © 2003-2012 Princeton University, Farlex Inc. useless adjective 1. worthless, of no use, valueless, pants (slang), ineffective, impractical, fruitless, unproductive, ineffectual, unworkable, disadvantageous, unavailing, bootless, unsuitable He realised that their money was useless in this country. worthless useful, practical, valuable, effective, productive, fruitful, workable, advantageous 2. pointless, hopeless, futile, vain, idle, profitless She knew it was useless to protest. pointless worthwhile, profitable 3. (Informal) inept, no good, hopeless, weak, stupid, pants (slang), incompetent, ineffectual He was useless at any game with a ball. Collins Thesaurus of the English Language – Complete and Unabridged 2nd Edition. 2002 © HarperCollins Publishers 1995, 2002 useless adjective 1. Having no useful purpose: ineffectual, inutile, unusable, worthless. 2. Incapable of being used or availed of to advantage: impracticable, impractical, unnegotiable, unserviceable, unusable, unworkable. 3. Having no useful result: barren, bootless, fruitless, futile, unavailing, unprofitable, unsuccessful, vain. Idiom: in vain. 4. Not having the desired effect: ineffective, ineffectual, inefficacious, inefficient. The American Heritage® Roget's Thesaurus. Copyright © 2013, 2014 by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Harcourt Publishing Company. All rights reserved. Translations Spanish / Español Select a language: inútil useless [ˈjuːslɪs] ADJ 1. (= ineffective) [object] → que no sirve para nada; [person] → inútil this can opener's useless → este abrelatas no sirve para nada compasses are useless in the jungle → las brújulas no sirven para or de nada en la selva she's useless → es una inútil he's useless as a forward → no vale para delantero → no sirve como delantero I was always useless at maths → siempre fui (un) negado or un inútil para las matemáticas 2. (= unusable) [object, vehicle] → inservible; [limb] → inutilizado, inútil he's a mine of useless information! (hum) → se sabe todo tipo de datos y chorraditas que no sirven de nada to render or make sth useless → inutilizar algo 3. (= pointless) → inútil it's useless to shout → de nada sirve gritar, es inútil gritar Collins Spanish Dictionary - Complete and Unabridged 8th Edition 2005 © William Collins Sons & Co. Ltd. 1971, 1988 © HarperCollins Publishers 1992, 1993, 1996, 1997, 2000, 2003, 2005 use2 (juːs) noun 1. the act of using or state of being used. The use of force to persuade workers to join a strike cannot be justified; This telephone number is for use in emergencies.uso, utilización 2. the/a purpose for which something may be used. This little knife has plenty of uses; I have no further use for these clothes.uso 3. (often in questions or with negatives) value or advantage. Is this coat (of) any use to you?; It's no use offering to help when it's too late.utilidad 4. the power of using. She lost the use of her right arm as a result of the accident.uso 5. permission, or the right, to use. They let us have the use of their car while they were away.uso ˈuseful adjective helpful or serving a purpose well. a useful tool/dictionary; She made herself useful by doing the washing for her mother.útil ˈusefulness noun utilidad ˈusefully adverb in a useful way. He spent the day usefully in repairing the car.útilmente ˈuseless adjective having no use or no effect. Why don't you throw away those useless things?; We can't do it – it's useless to try.inútil be in use, be out of use to be used or not used. How long has the gymnasium been in use / out of use? en uso/desuso, dar un uso/no darle un uso come in useful to become useful. My French came in useful on holiday. resultar útil have no use for to despise. I have no use for such silliness / silly people. no querer saber de it's no use it's impossible or useless. He tried in vain to do it, then said `It's no use.' es inútil make (good) use of, put to (good) use He makes use of his training; He puts his training to good use in that job. sacar partido/provecho de Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary © 2006-2013 K Dictionaries Ltd. useless → inútil Multilingual Translator © HarperCollins Publishers 2009 useless adj inútil English-Spanish/Spanish-English Medical Dictionary Copyright © 2006 by The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. All rights reserved. Want to thank TFD for its existence? Tell a friend about us, add a link to this page, or visit the webmaster's page for free fun content. Link to this page:   Facebook Twitter     Finally, Farlex brings you all the rules of English grammar, all in one place, explained in simple terms. The Farlex Grammar Book is available now in paperback and eBook formats. Feedback Finally, all the rules of English Grammar in one place. Explore The Farlex Grammar Book now for FREE. Flashcards & Bookmarks ? Please log in or register to use Flashcards and Bookmarks. You can also log in with Facebook Twitter Google+ Yahoo TheFreeDictionary presents: Write what you mean clearly and correctly. Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now. Mentioned in ? aidless anopheles anopheline barren bauchle bitslag bogotify boonless bootless bootlessness Cassate destroy discard dissipation Disutilize dud duff dufferdom effectless References in classic literature ? "I purposely abstain from troubling you by any useless allusions to myself. Vanstone has left it, seems like taking a journey for nothing -- and my staying in London appears to be almost equally useless. View in context The adult might become fitted for sites or habits, in which organs of locomotion or of the senses, &c., would be useless; and in this case the final metamorphosis would be said to be retrograde. View in context Mordaunt tried for a moment to read in the general's face if this was simply a useless question, or whether he knew everything. View in context Useless! The air had made the flame attached to the conductor more active; the match, which at rest might have burnt five minutes, was consumed in thirty seconds, and the infernal work exploded. View in context The attempt proved to be useless, and worse--it seemed to make her suspicious. View in context But while he was seeking with thimbles and care, A Bandersnatch swiftly drew nigh And grabbed at the Banker, who shrieked in despair, For he knew it was useless to fly. View in context During the scene of tumult, Andrea had turned his smiling face towards the assembly; then, leaning with one hand on the oaken rail of the dock, in the most graceful attitude possible, he said: "Gentlemen, I assure you I had no idea of insulting the court, or of making a useless disturbance in the presence of this honorable assembly. View in context "It is useless, mother, to speculate on what might have happened. View in context I'm glad there's something to give my life for, for it's not simply useless but loathsome to me. View in context Those who tried to understand the general course of events and to take part in it by self-sacrifice and heroism were the most useless members of society, they saw everything upside down, and all they did for the common good turned out to be useless and foolish- like Pierre's and Mamonov's regiments which looted Russian villages, and the lint the young ladies prepared and that never reached the wounded, and so on. View in context That is to say, justice is useful when money is useless? View in context More results ►   Dictionary browser ? ▲ Usbegs Usbek USC USCA USCB USCG USD USDA USDAW use use immunity use of force policy use of goods and services use up useable useableness use-by date used used to used-car used-car lot usedn't useful usefully usefulness useless uselessly uselessness Usenet usen't user user group user interface user-definable user-defined key user-friendliness user-friendly username user-unfriendly Ushant U-shaped U-shaped valley Ushas usher usher in usher out Usherance Usherdom usherette ushering in Usherless ▼ Full browser ? ▲ usefully usefulness usefulness usefulness usefulness usefulness usefulness usefulness Usefulness of Training Topics for Domestic Violence Questionnaire usefulnesses usefulnesses USEG usege usege usege USEI USEIA USEIC USEIGHT Usein Kysytyt Kysymykset Useinov, Mikael Useinov, Mikael Aleskerovich USEIR Useit USEITI USEK USEL USELC USELEMCMOC USELEMNORAD useless useless as an ashtray on a motorbike useless as tits on a boar hog useless as tits on a bull useless as tits on a nun Useless Bits of Information Useless Fact of the Day Useless Inert Nothing Useless Information for You Useless Information Society Useless language Useless languages Useless Management Overhead Useless Movie Quotes Useless Piece of Information Useless Piece of Stuff Useless S. Grant Useless S. Grant Useless use of cat Useless Use of Grep Useless, Unsuccessful, And/Or Unpopular Memes uselessly uselessly uselessness uselessness USELMNORAD USELMS USEM usen't Usenbaev, Alymkul Usenet ▼ Correct all you're your grammar errors instantly. Try it now. Facebook Share Twitter CITE   Site: Follow: Facebook Twitter Rss Mail Share: Facebook Twitter LinkedIn Mail Open / Close More from Dictionary, Thesaurus, and Translations Mobile Apps Apple Android Kindle Windows Windows Phone Free Tools For surfers: Free toolbar & extensions Word of the Day Bookmark Help For webmasters: Free content Linking Lookup box Terms of Use Privacy policy Feedback Advertise with Us Copyright © 2003-2020 Farlex, Inc Disclaimer All content on this website, including dictionary, thesaurus, literature, geography, and other reference data is for informational purposes only. This information should not be considered complete, up to date, and is not intended to be used in place of a visit, consultation, or advice of a legal, medical, or any other professional.    
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.