Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

Interesting to notice the difference between r5's and ehorn's charts in including the two containers from the 1040 to 1345 period in the down respectively up slower fractal container.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Market was kind... gives us signals that WMCN did NOT... lots of time to wash this one and mark it for debrief and review to find what one missed.

WNMCN.png.fabc7bc08d49b26d5f83337a29c59782.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Market was kind... gives us signals that WMCN did NOT... lots of time to wash this one and mark it for debrief and review to find what one missed.

 

but... when the sequence is completed, there can be no mercy...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

These guys didn't do their MADA ... :)

Forums ›› Main ›› Trading ›› wtf was that?

05-28-10 10:13 AM

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote from Bob111:

 

Thank you!

nice timing..low volume, middle of the day..perfect for those "flashers" to screw you on spreads

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Everybody on CNBC and Fox Business angry about the timing. Everybody caught long!

 

Wrong psychology for the long weekend.

Forums ›› Main ›› Trading ›› Volume Spike

05-28-10 01:20 PM

 

WTF? ES just did 50M contracts in 30 min according to my chart.

 

Is this the end of session Globex auction or just a method to take out stops?

 

... Is this tradable at bid/offer?

 

What is this?

 

(edit: It happened 1545 - 1615 Eastern time)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A different way of seeing those "goats" when the pace slowed down and a finer fractal became visible.

 

Hi cnms2,

 

Thanks for posting the chart. If I read the chart correctly, the volume pane from 2:10 pm EST showed faster fractals gaussians and you had drawn maybe a fractal slower to capture the b2b.

 

I am still in the early stages of learning, and I would usually build from the smallest fractal up based on the gaussians to arrive at the price fractal. Would that be a correct approach ?

 

The pink channel container - was that drawn after PT3 at 3:35 pm and was it a WMCN anticipation ?

 

Thanks again for sharing.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi cnms2,

 

Thanks for posting the chart. ...

A quick note: that was rs5's chart to which I added two annotations (in the highlighted areas), for the sake of discussion.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A quick note: that was rs5's chart to which I added two annotations (in the highlighted areas), for the sake of discussion.

 

I was actually looking at the similarities and thought that both of you must be on almost exactly the same page in terms of logical thinking and visualization of the fractals and gaussians :o

 

Then this means perhaps rs5 would care to provide some comments on my questions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Greetings emac, welcome to the thread.

 

I am still in the early stages of learning, and I would usually build from the smallest fractal up based on the gaussians to arrive at the price fractal. Would that be a correct approach ?

 

Yes, per earlier lessons in the thread. http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/34/price-volume-relationship-6320-30.html#post72196

 

The pink channel container - was that drawn after PT3

 

Yes, RTL is drawn after formation of P3. http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/price-volume-relationship-6320.html

 

Happy MADA!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

New to this thread so please be patient.

 

My question is on any given day we are looking for completion of a volume sequence, in order to determine if a trend has completed. Since each day may be a continuation of a sequence and then completion, how common is it that one would see more then one or two completed volume sequences for an entire day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I noticed that PT multistation trading terminal shows an extra little bar chart for the volume, at the bottom of the chart beneath every candle, which I find convenient, especially for scalpers.

 

But more interestingly is that ProTrader / PT multistation also shows a volume graph updating in real-time in the volume column of the watchlist for each instrument, stock, etc. - and you can easily sort that column.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Since each day may be a continuation of a sequence and then completion, how common is it that one would see more then one or two completed volume sequences for an entire day?

 

As a trader begins to learn how to thoroughly annotate a chart, one's mental calibration exists at a certain observational level. By bringing into the analysis the market's fractal nature, the learning trader begins to learn to see mulitple sequences complete nested within a larger orientation. Pace often determines how many fractals one has the ability to see. As a result, it is far more rare to see only one completed order of events on any given trading day. However, many individuals (just beginning the learning process) often have yet to develop the ability to see that which the market has provided.

 

Note the ES for today.

 

Moving forward from 9:55 (Eastern Time and Close of Bar), one can 'see' a number of fractals completing - some faster and some slower - as time progresses. Once a trader determines which fractal best mirrors their skill level and trading goals, then that trader simply 'waits' until said fractal moves through the order of events.

 

As an individual gains additional experience by reaching various 'knowledge plateaus' with respect to the learning process, what once seemed obscured or 'impossible' transitions to ordinary and mundane.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
As a trader begins to learn how to thoroughly annotate a chart, one's mental calibration exists at a certain observational level. By bringing into the analysis the market's fractal nature, the learning trader begins to learn to see mulitple sequences complete nested within a larger orientation. Pace often determines how many fractals one has the ability to see. As a result, it is far more rare to see only one completed order of events on any given trading day. However, many individuals (just beginning the learning process) often have yet to develop the ability to see that which the market has provided.

 

Note the ES for today.

 

Moving forward from 9:55 (Eastern Time and Close of Bar), one can 'see' a number of fractals completing - some faster and some slower - as time progresses. Once a trader determines which fractal best mirrors their skill level and trading goals, then that trader simply 'waits' until said fractal moves through the order of events.

 

As an individual gains additional experience by reaching various 'knowledge plateaus' with respect to the learning process, what once seemed obscured or 'impossible' transitions to ordinary and mundane.

 

- Spydertrader

Thanks for the reply. I am curious as to how you developed your personal skill. Did you have a mentor at one time?

 

I would be very interested as to how you approach the market as a trader. It is one thing to annotate a chart, another to trade it in real time. Do you trade the intraday tapes, or are you looking more to postion for traverses, and channels, or all of the above?

 

Regards

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am curious as to how you developed your personal skill. Did you have a mentor at one time?

 

About ten years ago, I traded stocks using nothing but Price Action as my guide. At that time, I focused on the SPY, DIA and QQQ as my trading vehicles of choice (Hence the username - Spydertrader). After stumbling across some posts on USENET by Jack Hershey, I felt something about his writings resonated with me - in that, I had seen something (in the markets ) which appeared to correspond to the information delineated within his posts. Although quite a number of individuals within the USENET Groups of MISC.INVEST.STOCKS and MISC.INVEST.FUTURES argued (vehemently) that his verbose contributions made no sense, I felt otherwise. At that point, I began my own journey (the vast majority of which I cronicled on the Elitetrader.com web site). However, Jack has always insisted I use the market as my guide.

 

I would be very interested as to how you approach the market as a trader. Do you trade the intraday tapes, or are you looking more to postion for traverses, and channels, or all of the above?

 

I focus on remaining on the fractal best described as a 'tape' - almost exclusively. I do, on occassion, intentionally "jump fractals" because doing so remains my first recourse (based on how I originally learned these methods). When I first learned to follow the Price / Volume Relationship, I used all tools available (Coarse, Medium and Fine). As a result, a "signal for change" represented a reason to reverse (irrespective of fractal chosen for trading). It isn't an 'easier' path by any means. It was simply the only path availble at the time (to me, based on my own mental filters).

 

Over the years, I've attempted to make life somewhat easier (some may argue that I haven't succeeded in that regard) by encouraging people to focus on one tool (Coarse) before moving onto another.

 

While I agree, actually trading these methods involves far more than simply drawing lines on a chart, profitable trading represents the consequence of a fully differentiated mind. In other words, unless one knows why someone has placed a specific line on a specific chart, at a specific point in time, then one might as well flip a coin. However, a complete and thoroughly annotated chart does indeed provide all the answers anyone ever needs.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Again, thanks for the reply.

Your answer is very interesting to me. I met a fellow in a trading room about a year ago, who seemed to be ahead of my curve, and that gentlemen was kind enough to lend some direction. First, he told me that the 5min chart was the chart to use, and he focused on price and volume. Up to that point, I had always believed volume held the key, and that any attempt to predict price in a vacuum from volume seemed irrational. So his comments resonated with me.

 

But little is written about volume, and of course most of what is written about trading is just wrong. But what really struck me about your thread, was your method of teaching, because this guy was exactly the same way. He would answer a question with a question, always making me seek the answer myself. His style is so similar to yours, that I wondered if perhaps both of you were mentored by the same individual.

 

You said you trade the "tape" almost exclusively. Do you always wait for a 5min candle to complete before acting, or will you close or open a position sometimes in anticipation of the candles outcome? I would think that as price reaches a target, one might want to exit even though a candle has not closed. Or do you ever drop down to a 1 or 3 minute chart?

 

Thanks for your time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
You said you trade the "tape" almost exclusively. Do you always wait for a 5min candle to complete before acting, or will you close or open a position sometimes in anticipation of the candles outcome?

 

While I often enter prior to the close of a five minute bar, doing so certainly isn't a requirement. "At some point" before the close of a 5 minute bar, the market 'locks into place' the next step in the order of events. While the "at some point" time develops at a different point in time (relative to the close) for every bar, one can learn to correctly anticipate 'what must come next' by using medium and / or fine level tools. However, on most days I trade, I am in no rush, and since I prefer to chat on the phone or sit outside, rather than, glue myself to a computer chair, I'm perfectly content to wait until the close of a bar before I take action.

 

I would think that as price reaches a target, one might want to exit even though a candle has not closed. Or do you ever drop down to a 1 or 3 minute chart?

 

I don't use 'candlestick' charts. I use OHLC 'Bar' Charts.

 

I don't set 'Price Targets' before entering a trade. I have no idea how long a particular trend will last, nor any clue as to how far Price will move when I enter. I only know how trends begin and how they end. Trends begin and end in the exact same fashion, it turns out. Of course, this answer also depends on 'context'. For example, if I see the market has reached 'Point Two' of a specific container at 3:50 PM Eastern Time, well, I'm going to exit, rather than hold between Points Two and Points Three.

 

With respect to 'dropping down' to faster time frames, unless I have the Medium Level Tools on my computer screen (two minute YM / STR - SQU), I have no need to use anything other than an ES 5 minute chart. Remember, this whole deal works (quite effectively) on a daily chart (and any other time frame for that matter). Effectiveness and Efficiency come into play once one has mastered the initial steps needed to see that which the market has provided.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That makes good sense. One of the demons I have been trying to rid myself of is exiting winning trades too soon. I know I am exiting based on reasons other then what is being provided by the chart. It is not that I don't know how to read the chart, I just need to better learn to control myself, which is all anyone can control once in a trade.

 

Do you have any reason why you prefer OHLC bars to candles? Doesn't seem to me an important difference, but you seem to feel that candles may obscure the message of the markets?

 

Thanks again

 

drwarbuck

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 11th July 2025.   Demand For Gold Rises As Trump Announces Tariffs!   Gold prices rose significantly throughout the week as investors took advantage of the 2.50% lower entry level. Investors also return to the safe-haven asset as the US trade policy continues to escalate. As a result, investors are taking a more dovish tone. The ‘risk-off’ appetite is also something which can be seen within the stock market. The NASDAQ on Thursday took a 0.90% dive within only 30 minutes.   Trade Tensions Escalate President Trump has been teasing with new tariffs throughout the week. However, the tariffs were confirmed on Thursday. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports starting August 1st, along with 50% tariffs on copper and goods from Brazil. Some experts are advising that Brazil has been specifically targeted due to its association with the BRICS.   However, the President has not directly associated the tariffs with BRICS yet. According to President Trump, Brazil is targeting US technology companies and carrying out a ‘witch hunt’against former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, a close ally who is currently facing prosecution for allegedly attempting to overturn the 2022 Brazilian election.   Although Brazil is one of the largest and fastest-growing economies in the Americas, it is not the main concern for investors. Investors are more concerned about Tariffs on Canada. The White House said it will impose a 35% tariff on Canadian imports, effective August 1st, raised from the earlier 25% rate. This covers most goods, with exceptions under USMCA and exemptions for Canadian companies producing within the US.   It is also vital for investors to note that Canada is among the US;’s top 3 trading partners. The increase was justified by Trump citing issues like the trade deficit, Canada’s handling of fentanyl trafficking, and perceived unfair trade practices.   The President is also threatening new measures against the EU. These moves caused US and European stock futures to fall nearly 1%, while the Dollar rose and commodity prices saw small gains. However, the main benefactor was Silver and Gold, which are the two best-performing metals of the day.   How Will The Fed Impact Gold? The FOMC indicated that the number of members warming up to the idea of interest rate cuts is increasing. If the Fed takes a dovish tone, the price of Gold may further rise. In the meantime, the President pushing for a 3% rate cut sparked talk of a more dovish Fed nominee next year and raised worries about future inflation.   Meanwhile, jobless claims dropped for the fourth straight week, coming in better than expected and supporting the view that the labour market remains strong after last week’s solid payroll report. Markets still expect two rate cuts this year, but rate futures show most investors see no change at the next Fed meeting. Gold is expected to finish the week mostly flat.       Gold 15-Minute Chart     If the price of Gold increases above $3,337.50, buy signals are likely to materialise again. However, the price is currently retracing, meaning traders are likely to wait for regained momentum before entering further buy trades. According to HSBC, they expect an average price of $3,215 in 2025 (up from $3,015) and $3,125 in 2026, with projections showing a volatile range between $3,100 and $3,600   Key Takeaway Points: Gold Rises on Safe-Haven Demand. Gold gained as investors reacted to rising trade tensions and market volatility. Canada Tariffs Spark Concern. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports drew attention due to Canada’s key trade role. Fed Dovish Shift Supports Gold. Growing expectations of rate cuts and Trump’s push for a 3% cut boosted the gold outlook. Gold Eyes Breakout Above $3,337.5. Price is consolidating; a move above $3,337.50 could trigger new buy signals. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Back in the early 2000s, Netflix mailed DVDs to subscribers.   It wasn’t sexy—but it was smart. No late fees. No driving to Blockbuster.   People subscribed because they were lazy. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone else is lazy too.   Those who saw the future in that red envelope? They could’ve caught a 10,000%+ move.   Another story…   Back in the mid-2000s, Amazon launched Prime.   It wasn’t flashy—but it was fast.   Free two-day shipping. No minimums. No hassle.   People subscribed because they were impatient. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone hates waiting.   Those who saw the future in that speedy little yellow button? They could’ve caught another 10,000%+ move.   Finally…   Back in 2011, Bitcoin was trading under $10.   It wasn’t regulated—but it worked.   No bank. No middleman. Just wallet to wallet.   People used it to send money. Investors bought it because they saw the potential.   Those who saw something glimmering in that strange orange coin? They could’ve caught a 100,000%+ move.   The people who made those calls weren’t fortune tellers. They just noticed something simple before others did.   A better way. A quiet shift. A small edge. An asymmetric bet.   The red envelope fixed late fees. The yellow button fixed waiting. The orange coin gave billions a choice.   Of course, these types of gains are rare. And they happen only once in a blue moon. That’s exactly why it’s important to notice when the conditions start to look familiar.   Not after the move. Not once it's on CNBC. But in the quiet build-up— before the surface breaks.   Enter the Blue Button Please read more here: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/netflix-amazon-bitcoin-blue  Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • What These Attacks Look Like There are several ways you could get hacked. And the threats compound by the day.   Here’s a quick rundown:   Phishing: Fake emails from your “bank.” Click the link, give your password—game over.   Ransomware: Malware that locks your files and demands crypto. Pay up, or it’s gone.   DDoS: Overwhelm a website with traffic until it crashes. Like 10,000 bots blocking the door. Often used by nations.   Man-in-the-Middle: Hackers intercept your messages on public WiFi and read or change them.   Social Engineering: Hackers pose as IT or drop infected USB drives labeled “Payroll.”   You don’t need to be “important” to be a target.   You just need to be online.   What You Can Do (Without Buying a Bunker) You don’t have to be tech-savvy.   You just need to stop being low-hanging fruit.   Here’s how:   Use a YubiKey (physical passkey device) or Authenticator app – Ditch text message 2FA. SIM swaps are real. Hackers often have people on the inside at telecom companies.   Use a password manager (with Yubikey) – One unique password per account. Stop using your dog’s name.   Update your devices – Those annoying updates patch real security holes. Use them.   Back up your files – If ransomware hits, you don’t want your important documents held hostage.   Avoid public WiFi for sensitive stuff – Or use a VPN.   Think before you click – Emails that feel “urgent” are often fake. Go to the websites manually for confirmation.   Consider Starlink in case the internet goes down – I think it’s time for me to make the leap. Don’t Panic. Prepare. (Then Invest.)   I spent an hour in that basement bar reading about cyberattacks—and watching real-world systems fall apart like dominos.   The internet going down used to be an inconvenience. Now, it’s a warning.   Cyberwar isn’t coming. It’s here.   And the next time your internet goes out, it might not just be your router.   Don’t panic. Prepare.   And maybe keep a backup plan in your back pocket. Like a local basement bar with good bourbon—and working WiFi.   As usual, we’re on the lookout for more opportunities in cybersecurity. Stay tuned.   Author: Chris Campbell (AltucherConfidential) Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • DUMBSHELL:  re the automation of corruption ---  200,000 "Science Papers" in academic journal database PubMed may have been AI-generated with errors, hallucinations and false sourcing 
    • Does any crypto exchanges get banned in your country? How's about other as Bybit, Kraken, MEXC, OKX?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.