The Price / Volume Relationship

[wilddog 10]

Apparently not.

 

-river

 

Jack or Todd never charged. I was under the impression Todd did this as a pay-it forward from Jack. John sees it as pay me.

 

Where is the track record? I asked about live trading to see him in action. It is very easy to annotate looking through the rear view mirror.

 

You have got to be nuts to pay for this, I will wait for a free recorded version.

[jbarnby 10]

The track record exists in the many students who have studied my program, and those they have referred. Beyond that I have no motivation to prove or disprove anything to you or anyone else.

 

As for Todd and Jack passing it on for free - I think the track record of "failure to succeed" for most of those students is quite obvious.

 

Furthermore, if you think I'm going to give up three weekends with my family out of the goodness of my heart, you would be incorrect. Maybe you should contact Spyder. I'm more than happy to step aside if he's willing to offer the same to you for free.

 

Quite a few folks have already signed up. As for you getting your hands on a copy. Good luck with that.

 

Best to you in your journey.

[wilddog 10]

The track record exists in the many students who have studied my program, and those they have referred. Beyond that I have no motivation to prove or disprove anything to you or anyone else.

 

As for Todd and Jack passing it on for free - I think the track record of "failure to succeed" for most of those students is quite obvious.

 

Furthermore, if you think I'm going to give up three weekends with my family out of the goodness of my heart, you would be incorrect. Maybe you should contact Spyder. I'm more than happy to step aside if he's willing to offer the same to you for free.

 

Quite a few folks have already signed up. As for you getting your hands on a copy. Good luck with that.

 

Best to you in your journey.

 

 

No need to get defensive. This is a public forum and that is my opinion. Spyder left for family reasons.

 

I have no doubt there will be a copy available for download.

 

Good luck to you.

[cnms2 10]

...

I can't understand why anybody who trades this method successfully would charge to teach it. He'd make more money trading it than teaching it. I understand if somebody doesn't want to fully share this method's indepth secrets, because he doesn't want to enable undeserving people, but to charge some unfortunate people who already spent a lot of time, energy, and hope seems to me wrong; a scam.

 

People, don't buy it!

 

EDIT: I'm curious: how much does this class cost?

Edited October 1, 2014 by cnms2

[river 10]

I can't understand why anybody who trades this method successfully would charge to teach it. He'd make more money trading it than teaching it. I understand if somebody doesn't want to fully share this method's indepth secrets, because he doesn't want to enable undeserving people, but to charge some unfortunate people who already spent a lot of time, energy, and hope seems to me wrong; a scam.

 

People, don't buy it!

 

EDIT: I'm curious: how much does this class cost?

 

Evidently $500. No word on whether or not that price includes a set of steak knives.

 

-river

[cnms2 10]

Evidently $500. No word on whether or not that price includes a set of steak knives.

 

-river

That's really peanuts!

 

A quick calculation, if you master this method even slightly, and average 1 ES point a day:

- $12,500 a year

- 5 points a week, so you make $1,000 a month

- you can decide to double the number of contracts every $2,000, or 2 months, and use the power of compounding:

- in 2 months: 2 contracts ($25,000 a year)

- in 4 months: 4 contracts ($50,000 a year)

- in 6 months: 8 contracts ($100,000 a year)

- in 2*n months: 2**n contracts ($12,500*2**n)

- but, you can easily average 4-6 points daily in 1-3 trades

 

[jbarnby 10]

I can't understand why anybody who trades this method successfully would charge to teach it.

 

Good question. When I first started out I didn't charge a dime. My first student, who was a long-term friend, still trades with me in my Skype room every day. He's done well.

 

BUT, I learned something important during that first training experience. This stuff is not easily transferred. And I ended up causing him much confusion, answering his questions with riddles, etc...much like many of us experienced with Spyder. It was not effective for either of us.

 

Later on, after my success, other friends started crawling out of the woodwork. (don't they always?) I realized that with a family, an elderly mother who lives with us, and young children that needed a lot of my attention, that I couldn't possibly continue training in the same manner. This is where I broke away from Spyder's teaching methods and developed my own system/syllabus for teaching. I have and maintain a blog for each class, I give regular homework assignments which are graded BY HAND and returned to the student, I hold regular Skype meetings where we take time to walk thru the assignments and I demonstrate the thought process/analysis that one should be considering as each bar develops thru the day. And yes, MANY of my students have watched me trade live right here in my home. I pour maybe 20-30 hrs a week into training. And we not only discuss the method, we discuss the value of entry/exit points, high risk vs low risk analysis, trade sizing, etc. It goes far far beyond anything that is presented here on TL or other forums. Maybe you should ask my new student who profited over $10,000 in the months of June/July this summer if it was worth his time. I know his answer.

 

You call me a scam - so be it. Truthfully it doesn't matter to me what you or anyone else here thinks of my method for doing this. The only opinions that matter to me are those of the students who have worked with me and those that I have helped.

 

edit: And of course I make more money trading it than teaching it. But unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to do both at the same time. If I'm going to teach it, then each student deserves my full attention. We don't just annotate random days - each assignment is chosen for a very specific reason - to learn something that they can (and will) use again over and over. But I also place a high value on my personal time. Since most of the work around my training is in the evenings, I consider there to be a value on that time that it takes away from my family. If someone doesn't understand that value - then they can certainly choose to look elsewhere. No harm done.

Edited October 2, 2014 by jbarnby

[Stock.Jock 10]

I was searching for education about Wyckoff trading and I came across this. There's a website about meetings on specific topics and there's one on Wyckoff that is held in online webinars. Read it for yourself.

LA Stock Investors Wyckoff Educational Meetup (Irvine, CA) - Meetup

[wilddog 10]

Good question. When I first started out I didn't charge a dime. My first student, who was a long-term friend, still trades with me in my Skype room every day. He's done well.

 

BUT, I learned something important during that first training experience. This stuff is not easily transferred. And I ended up causing him much confusion, answering his questions with riddles, etc...much like many of us experienced with Spyder. It was not effective for either of us.

 

Later on, after my success, other friends started crawling out of the woodwork. (don't they always?) I realized that with a family, an elderly mother who lives with us, and young children that needed a lot of my attention, that I couldn't possibly continue training in the same manner. This is where I broke away from Spyder's teaching methods and developed my own system/syllabus for teaching. I have and maintain a blog for each class, I give regular homework assignments which are graded BY HAND and returned to the student, I hold regular Skype meetings where we take time to walk thru the assignments and I demonstrate the thought process/analysis that one should be considering as each bar develops thru the day. And yes, MANY of my students have watched me trade live right here in my home. I pour maybe 20-30 hrs a week into training. And we not only discuss the method, we discuss the value of entry/exit points, high risk vs low risk analysis, trade sizing, etc. It goes far far beyond anything that is presented here on TL or other forums. Maybe you should ask my new student who profited over $10,000 in the months of June/July this summer if it was worth his time. I know his answer.

 

You call me a scam - so be it. Truthfully it doesn't matter to me what you or anyone else here thinks of my method for doing this. The only opinions that matter to me are those of the students who have worked with me and those that I have helped.

 

edit: And of course I make more money trading it than teaching it. But unfortunately I'm not skilled enough to do both at the same time. If I'm going to teach it, then each student deserves my full attention. We don't just annotate random days - each assignment is chosen for a very specific reason - to learn something that they can (and will) use again over and over. But I also place a high value on my personal time. Since most of the work around my training is in the evenings, I consider there to be a value on that time that it takes away from my family. If someone doesn't understand that value - then they can certainly choose to look elsewhere. No harm done.

 

 

You are a scam. You keep coming back to justify your actions. Any successful trader that is making money would not give a crap. Why dont you just be honest and say you dont make money trading you make it teaching other peoples methods.

 

As far as students watching you trade and others making $10k over the summer is a great sales pitch.

 

Be aware! He is a scam.

[Mandelbrot 10]

You are a scam. You keep coming back to justify your actions. Any successful trader that is making money would not give a crap. Why dont you just be honest and say you dont make money trading you make it teaching other peoples methods.

 

As far as students watching you trade and others making $10k over the summer is a great sales pitch.

 

Be aware! He is a scam.

 

You are right! He is chasing this money, he ain't making money trading.

[jbarnby 10]

So I assume you are a skilled trader since (according to you) none of them give a crap. My goodness....and all this time I thought it was possible to be a good trader AND also provide a service. Thanks for opening my eyes!

 

BTW, since you're so sure you'll get a download of my class, then I'm sure you already have several hundred recordings of my other classes in your possession. Hope you enjoyed them.

[Mandelbrot 10]

So I assume you are a skilled trader since (according to you) none of them give a crap. My goodness....and all this time I thought it was possible to be a good trader AND also provide a service. Thanks for opening my eyes!

 

BTW, since you're so sure you'll get a download of my class, then I'm sure you already have several hundred recordings of my other classes in your possession. Hope you enjoyed them.

 

Spoken like a true salesman.

 

Every time you respond it does more damage than good. Stop trying to justify!

 

Seriously, a successful trader who is making money from trading would not care. You seem to care a little bit too much.

 

Actions speak louder than words!

[Corey 10]

this women get it

I have been trading for the past fifteen years using many different indicators — you name it and I have probably traded it.

 

Triangles

Elliott Waves

MACDs

Moving Averages

Trend Identifiers

 

They were all part of my tool kit. There was only one HUGE issue. I would have numerous winning trades, only to be knocked backwards by a couple of losers. Trading was a constant uphill struggle — I would take three steps forward, two steps back.

 

Frustration was often my best friend!

 

 

Then a friend told me, look trading is simple — WE make it HARD. Traders have to learn to trade volume and price, not just the color of the indicator. Volume and price LEADS all other indicators.

 

WOW, if only it could be that easy!

 

 

I have discovered that trading really is that easy using 3 very simple steps:

 

 

Candlestick charting because it is easier on the eyes and traders can easily identify all the key price points without squinting.

 

Volume LEADS price, it really is that simple. However, most traders don’t understand where to analyze the volume. I analyze volume at two critical areas:

 

Support and Resistance area

Overbought and Oversold areas

...

[cnms2 10]

Guess who's student this was? Key points here.

[Scooty 10]

Guess who's student this was? Key points here.

cis, there is no volume....

[Corey 10]

this women get it

 

 

latest video on vol leads price

[vienna 10]

Spoken like a true salesman.

 

Every time you respond it does more damage than good. Stop trying to justify!

 

Seriously, a successful trader who is making money from trading would not care. You seem to care a little bit too much.

 

Actions speak louder than words!

 

I don't know how you people think.

The way I see it, Spyder and Jack have generously shared a huge amount of information. I actually read it. However, having tracked down quite a few of the "old hands" from ET, some of which have been doing this for a decade (!), I had a hard time finding people that even claimed they were consistently profitable, let alone coming close to the results talked about in the threads. Some of them still papertrade, believe it or not. So, if you cannot figure this out from the threads (and it is my opinion that it is very difficult, too much info that is downright wrong, or slightly off, or contradictory, too many misunderstandings through language, too many nuances), you might spend years and thousands of hours trying unsuccessfully to figure it out. It is still a mystery how Spyder ever did it, given that he learned it from Jack whose communication skills are somewhat challenging.By the way, a lot of the info that some of the old timers post as answers to questions is downright wrong, even though "free".

So-what is your time worth? At least 20 bucks per hour one would hope? You might end up with the equivalent of an Ivy-league tuition in opportunity cost for these "free" threads that "pay it forward". Some of the people that spend years on the threads seem to have ended up in a psychological state that I would not wish to pay forward to my worst enemy.

 

So, if somebody offers to spend something like 20 hours with you for a measly 500 bucks, the only valid questions IMO would be 1. does he know what he is talking about? and 2. can he actually explain this so that I will be able to trade the method profitably, with some practice? If the answer is No, then walk away. If the answer is yes, even thousands of dollars would obviously not be too much, and much cheaper than studying the "free"stuff which is not free because it is hugely expensive in the most precious of all resources, time.

 

Having said that, there is also a kind of whiny aspect to that demand that somebody spent time with you for free,a certain sense of entitlement, like a petulant child. Nobody owes you anything (especially not in the trading environment), and why should anybody spend hours of his time for free? I would do it, but for friends and family, and certainly not for people that think I somehow owe it to them.

 

As to the logical leap that "anybody who charges me anything is a vendor and cannot trade", I urge you to consider Don Miller...he makes millions per year, fully audited, and he teaches people for a fee (he gives that fee to charity, but that is his personal choice and besides the point).

 

Just my two cents- am not getting in a flame war, for the reason you guessed- waste of time...

 

[river 10]

 

Quite the impassioned post.

 

Is this a thinly veiled effort to defend a stealth vender mentor or a sincere attempt to help those who struggle to successfully trade the price/volume relationship?

 

-river

[vienna 10]

Quite the impassioned post.

 

Is this a thinly veiled effort to defend a stealth vender mentor or a sincere attempt to help those who struggle to successfully trade the price/volume relationship?

 

-river

 

:):)!!!

You figure it out...

[Corey 10]

Quite the impassioned post.

 

Is this a thinly veiled effort to defend a stealth vender mentor or a sincere attempt to help those who struggle to successfully trade the price/volume relationship?

 

-river

Neither I think it is a keenly assesment of thread participants so far.

[Mandelbrot 10]

 

As to the logical leap that "anybody who charges me anything is a vendor and cannot trade", I urge you to consider Don Miller...he makes millions per year, fully audited, and he teaches people for a fee (he gives that fee to charity, but that is his personal choice and besides the point).

 

That is the point Don Miller has a track record and is happy to supply it. He is well known and respected in the market. John is a nobody claiming to be this successful trader. Why does he not publish broker statements for the past 6 months. Very easy to blank out account numbers.

 

If $500 is small change, please publish your own broker statements. Jack has done it. You should have nothing to hide.

 

Proof is in the pudding, the rest is just words.

 

Please don't respond without broker statements it is just meaningless dribble.

[cnms2 10]

It would be interesting to find out:

 

1. Who believes that the futures Hershey / Spydertrader method is profitable (not if you are profitable, but if you think it is profitable even if you don't know yet how)? It is.

 

1. a. Who believes it is wildly profitable? It is.

 

2. Who believes that any trading course will teach you a sure method of making money? I don't.

 

2.a. Who believes it will make you rich? I don't.

 

3. Who believes that somebody who charges to teach you trading is profitable trading? I don't.

 

3.a. Who believes it is wildly profitable? I don't.

[cnms2 10]

@river: If you can't figure it out yourself, you can find out from vienna for $2 (for his time).

 

I pay more than $20 an hour my gardner ...

 

:):)!!!

You figure it out...

[Mandelbrot 10]

It would be interesting to find out:

 

1. Who believes that the futures Hershey / Spydertrader method is profitable (not if you are profitable, but if you think it is profitable even if you don't know yet how)? It is.

 

1. a. Who believes it is wildly profitable? It is.

 

2. Who believes that any trading course will teach you a sure method of making money? I don't.

 

2.a. Who believes it will make you rich? I don't.

 

3. Who believes that somebody who charges to teach you trading is profitable trading? I don't.

 

3.a. Who believes it is wildly profitable? I don't.

 

1. Agreed

2. Agreed

2a. That depends on the individual and the contracts size

3. Agreed. Not profitable

3a.Back to contract size, and the definition of wildly profitable

[frenchfry 10]

How do they say...? "And not a single chart was posted."