[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by disperados-x »

Db!
What is the difference between SMI course Hank Pruden "Analyzing the Price and Volume Movement of Market Tradable Item According to the Principles of Mass Psychology" and the SMI Stewart Taylor course "Wyckoff Analysis, The art Price and Volume"? What does Pruden and Taylor to the Wyckoff Stock market institute?

The differences among all the variations to Wyckoff's original work range from few to many, whether they be Evans, Pruden, Ross, Darvas, Dunnigan, Steidlmayer, Williams, or any of a number of other people. To explore them all would be exhaustive and might even be interesting. But the task would be irrelevant to the Wyckoff Forum.

When one begins an investigation of something, whether he's a researcher, a student, a reporter or whatever, it is important to begin with the source material. If one is beginning an investigation of Wyckoff's approach, then the source material becomes whatever Wyckoff himself wrote, not on what somebody else wrote based on Wyckoff wrote (including me). One can then, if he so chooses, move on into some variation or adaptation or interpretation of Wyckoff (the same applies to reading Dow before moving on to Hamilton, or Schabacker before moving on to Edwards and Magee). Or he may be more than happy to work with the original material and come up with his own variations on the themes (as I've done with my boxes, though doing no more than drawing a box around a range that's been defined according to Wyckoff isn't that much of a variation). Those are the trader's choices.

But to begin with the adaptations or variations or whatever one wants to call them and deny the trader access to the original material is to assume that one knows best what the trader ought to know. That's why -- all the posts and threads and charts aside -- the core of the Wyckoff Forum is Wyckoff's own material. The trader can ignore every single post, every single attachment and instead focus on Wyckoff's work alone, forming his own hypotheses and coming to his own conclusions without prejudice or bias or preconception.

The benefits of studying the original material can be seen by comparing recent efforts to sell a newsletter that was allegedly Wyckoff but was actually an adaptation. Only two trades were made in five weeks, both losers. But those who had not read the adaptation and focused on the original material provided more accurate analyses and had, instead, winning trades. Even so, those who want to discuss these adaptations and variations are welcome to do so. I ask only that they not do it here since this is, again, a forum for discussing the original material. While this may seem "heavy-handed" to some, it is primarily a matter of focus.

Wyckoff is simple, straightforward, and essentially plain-speaking. Though there are terms that are used in a particular way (like "climax" or "test"), he couldn't care less what term you use to describe something as long as you understand what's happening (see all the synonyms he provides for apex, hinge, wedge, dead center, etc). To say that it's simple, however, is not to imply that it's easy. Even though charting software has been available to the average retail trader for only ten years, a trading culture that is based on bars of various sorts and indicators of a near-infinite variety has entrenched itself so thoroughly that few beginners are able to conceptualize price movement in any way other than by some type of bar, and to be able to conceptualize price movement independently of whatever means one chooses to illustrate it or record it is crucial to implementing the Wyckoff approach. Otherwise, one risks joining the camps of those who believe that, for example, just because they have volume plotted on their charts that they are "doing Wyckoff" or who are forever trying to determine what a particular bar "means".

A long-winded answer that very likely tells you far more than you want to know about the subject, but I'd like to lay this to rest. Those who want to discuss Evans, Pruden, etc are welcome to do so elsewhere (though when that opportunity was recently provided, nobody pursued it). It isn't as though I'm going to insist that interested parties be gagged and thrown into a closet. The Wyckoff Forum is about Wyckoff. Therefore, if you truly want to grasp the concepts, I suggest you begin with the Stickies to the forum, then move on to the sections on volume and group strength, as suggested earlier. If you need illustrations, explore the "Most-Thanked Posts" Stickie. If you have further questions (and you very likely will), ask. There are a number of people who are working their way through this along with you and will be happy to be of assistance.

[disperados-x]

Db,

Thank you for unrolled answer! I am pleased existence of the similar forum due to, which possible get and be divided by greater information on Wyckoff method!

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by disperados-x »

Db,

Thank you for unrolled answer!
__________________
Taylor and Pruden wrote SMI course from their own thoughts or all their work came out of Wyckoff Stock market institute? Possible these work to consider the original course Wyckoff Stock market institute?

Perhaps the only way of answering this satisfactorily is for you to obtain the Taylor course, the Pruden material, the SMI course, and the original Wyckoff course in its entirety and make the comparisons yourself. Otherwise you're in the position of relying on somebody else to tell you what you should know rather than relying on your own work to make that determination.

Some may say that I myself am setting myself up as someone who is telling you what you should know, and if the Wyckoff material weren't here, then that would be true. However, it is here, and one can study it at his leisure without paying the slightest bit of attention to anything I say about it.

Therefore, if you want to spend the money to buy other courses and materials, nobody's going to tell you that you can't. It is, after all, your money and your time. But I'm not in a position to advise you on those purchases.

(Note: seems I posted this before you posted your edit. However, what I've posted above still applies to anyone who wants to do more than trade the market superficially.)

[disperados-x]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

Perhaps the only way of answering this satisfactorily is for you to obtain the Taylor course, the Pruden material, the SMI course, and the original Wyckoff course in its entirety and make the comparisons yourself. Otherwise you're in the position of relying on somebody else to tell you what you should know rather than relying on your own work to make that determination.

Some may say that I myself am setting myself up as someone who is telling you what you should know, and if the Wyckoff material weren't here, then that would be true. However, it is here, and one can study it at his leisure without paying the slightest bit of attention to anything I say about it.

Therefore, if you want to spend the money to buy other courses and materials, nobody's going to tell you that you can't. It is, after all, your money and your time. But I'm not in a position to advise you on those purchases.

(Note: seems I posted this before you posted your edit. However, what I've posted above still applies to anyone who wants to do more than trade the market superficially.)

I have edited the message since have understood not correction its question. I have understood that you not introduce;make familiar with with material these course Stewart Taylor and Pruden. Itself I their already studied. Particularly course Pruden SMI and book Behavorial Skill, with S.Taylor I while sign less. In course SMI from Pruden I have found the general principles from Behavorial Skill and separate parts from the other work possible most Wyckoff - absorption, hypodermix, stopping volume and others, but they were without explanations (only pictures). I it is difficult to judge about that pertain these notions to original Wyckoff. Since from his(its) original work I sign only with Studies tape reading (in her is not revealled essence of the method trading range) and Investing in stock and bonds (little useful information). But read Coppola, Forte, Pruden, Williams, Taylor, Hutson, Db. So I should like to honour Stock market technique. I seem in her are stated main notions trading range (the type hypodernix, absorption, springboard and other) in original Wyckoff. I am a rights? Itself I bad know english so paper texts for me not available since translation by means of computer translator.

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by disperados-x »

I have edited the message since have understood not correction its question. I have understood that you not introduce;make familiar with with material these course Stewart Taylor and Pruden. Itself I their already studied. Particularly course Pruden SMI and book Behavorial Skill, with S.Taylor I while sign less. In course SMI from Pruden I have found the general principles from Behavorial Skill and separate parts from the other work possible most Wyckoff - absorption, hypodermix, stopping volume and others, but they were without explanations (only pictures). I it is difficult to judge about that pertain these notions to original Wyckoff. Since from his(its) original work I sign only with Studies tape reading (in her is not revealled essence of the method trading range) and Investing in stock and bonds (little useful information). But read Coppola, Forte, Pruden, Williams, Taylor, Hutson, Db. So I should like to honour Stock market technique. I seem in her are stated main notions trading range (the type hypodernix, absorption, springboard and other) in original Wyckoff. I am a rights? Itself I bad know english so paper texts for me not available since translation by means of computer translator.

Yes, language can be a bitch, but we'll keep at it

And, yes, examples mean more than verbal explanations. A picture's worth a thousand words and so on.

So, let's move on to your specific concerns rather than go on again about concepts.

Absorption is first addressed in Section 7, p 8.

Hypodermics are first addressed in Section 7, p 11, and Section 8, pp 5 and 15.

Springboards are addressed in thirteen different sections, beginning with 4 (not posted here), 7, and 8. Use Ctrl+F to locate the specific pages. You can also refer to the springboards section of my blog.

As for "stopping volume", this is not mentioned in Wyckoff's course, though it's pretty self-explanatory, i.e., volume which is heavy enough to stop price in its tracks. This type of volume can often be found in climaxes, though it often occurs shortly after what appears to be -- at the time -- climactic volume.

If there's anything more than doesn't have to do specifically with Wyckoff Resources, feel free to take advantage of the Ask Any Wyckoff-Related Question or Trading the Wyckoff Way, or any other thread which may be more specifically related to your question. Annotated charts are probably going to mean a lot more to you than more verbal explanations.

[disperados-x]

Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »

Yes, language can be a bitch, but we'll keep at it

And, yes, examples mean more than verbal explanations. A picture's worth a thousand words and so on.

So, let's move on to your specific concerns rather than go on again about concepts.

Absorption is first addressed in Section 7, p 8.

Hypodermics are first addressed in Section 7, p 11, and Section 8, pp 5 and 15.

Springboards are addressed in thirteen different sections, beginning with 4 (not posted here), 7, and 8. Use Ctrl+F to locate the specific pages. You can also refer to the springboards section of my blog.

As for "stopping volume", this is not mentioned in Wyckoff's course, though it's pretty self-explanatory, i.e., volume which is heavy enough to stop price in its tracks. This type of volume can often be found in climaxes, though it often occurs shortly after what appears to be -- at the time -- climactic volume.

If there's anything more than doesn't have to do specifically with Wyckoff Resources, feel free to take advantage of the Ask Any Wyckoff-Related Question or Trading the Wyckoff Way, or any other thread which may be more specifically related to your question. Annotated charts are probably going to mean a lot more to you than more verbal explanations.

Thank you Db!
You may briefly describe the contents of the book Wyckoff -Stock Market Technique? Never read this book, there is in her description of the action in trading range and main notion glossary Wyckoff? Cost(stand)s her(its) read for the best assimilation philosophy Wyckoff and his(its) notion, or it is enough information this Wyckoff forum, SMI course, and opinions Pruden, Coppola, Forte, Williams and others?

[disperados-x]

Has Read the reviews about Stock Market Technique on Amazon. The Conclusion - in book one Philosophy not revealling essence of the method Wyckoff. There is beside Wyckoff books which reveal the essence of his(its) methods to trade or this only in SMI course?

[DbPhoenix]

Originally Posted by disperados-x »

Thank you Db!
You may briefly describe the contents of the book Wyckoff -Stock Market Technique? Never read this book, there is in her description of the action in trading range and main notion glossary Wyckoff? Cost(stand)s her(its) read for the best assimilation philosophy Wyckoff and his(its) notion, or it is enough information this Wyckoff forum, SMI course, and opinions Pruden, Coppola, Forte, Williams and others?

Originally Posted by disperados-x »

Has Read the reviews about Stock Market Technique on Amazon. The Conclusion - in book one Philosophy not revealling essence of the method Wyckoff. There is beside Wyckoff books which reveal the essence of his(its) methods to trade or this only in SMI course?

I no longer have any of my Wyckoff books. I was introduced to Wyckoff in the late 90s and the material made so much sense to me that I knew I'd be wasting my time with anything else. So I bought everything I could find that Wyckoff had written (nearly all of which is available on Amazon), but, even though I got a relatively good idea of Wyckoff's thoughts regarding the markets and market participants and so forth, it wasn't specific enough. I didn't know how to translate all that into a trading strategy. The most valuable book in that regard, until I obtained a copy of W's course, was the Hutson book, Charting the Stock Market.

As to what is enough, I guess that depends on how interested you are in the approach. Certainly anything that W wrote would add to your knowledge of and appreciation of how he approached the market and trading. But is it necessary to read all that? No.

As to the glossary, there's one here.

As to how to interpret the action in a trading range, I can think of a couple of examples offhand -- there's one here and here regarding the trading range that occurred in the NQ in May and a series of posts beginning here that address the behavior of price in a hinge, which is a special kind of trading range/springboard -- but there are more. Perhaps other members might remember an example in one of the threads that stuck with them and helped clarify something for them. I also suggest, again, the Most-Thanked Posts Sticky, which is only 60 or so posts as opposed to a thousand. Once you've real all that, plus the other stickies, plus the threads in the forum, plus my blog, then you'll know whether or not you need to buy books.

Note: Wyckoff goes into the process of trend, rest, trend, rest, trend, rest, the rests being trading ranges or springboards or both. But Auction Market Theory goes into the why trading ranges occur in the first place, and understanding that might help you understand what's going on and why in whatever range you're looking at.