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i think the inference is that you are a service provider.

 

Do people not read? I killed the project like months ago. I provide no services to anyone. I have no plans to ever put the course on the market. It never even went into printing. I think I have made that perfectly clear, repeatedly, adnausium.

 

This forum is full of crazy people.

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This is an excellent thread subject, TheNegotiator, and it's worthy of being read by every newbie (I am not one anymore, by the way)!

 

The posts by roztom are in particular valuable!

 

I am Trading full-time for a year now but did a lot of swing trading before since the mid nineties. I've lost a lot of money until I became profitable, read many books, did a lot of research, spent endless hours in front of the screen and even tried once a somewhat well-known educational service with focus on forex trading, which I stopped after only 3 months after I realized that these guys do not have much of a clue themselves.

 

Anyway, I think even such experiences with educational services are part of learning the game. I am sure I did learn "something" from them (and in fact, as I realized later on, I incorporated one aspect of their teachings in my trading but mixed it with something I've read somewhere else... however, this happened almost unconsciously). But all in all, I was critical about what they taught and after asking some specific questions at different learning sessions, I figured out that the overall information about the system that they taught did not add up. It just did not make any sense. That was the point when I stopped attending these classes. I would not call it a "scam", but what I call such service is anyway not relevant for my success as a trader. You've got to move on, if you want to get better at this. Even if you come to the conclusion that their way of trading is not the way to go, you've learned something (i.e. how NOT to do it).

 

I think Trading is more than anything else a Do-It-Yourself-Profession. You can not learn it from someone else, whether that individual or firm is successful at trading or not. roztom gave a good example with his friend.

 

The reason for this is that one's own psychology plays a too important role in this.

 

I've had a successful corporate career before doing this and was also somewhat successful as a competitive athlete on a national level in my country before that. However, Trading is the most difficult thing I've encountered so far and I think it is one of the most difficult endeavors one can pursue.

 

And you cannot compare it to going to school or university, like you did, SpearPointTrader. Or like learning Oracle, like rforexdad mentioned.

 

The markets and you yourself are far too complex for this!

 

However, I agree, that you should get every information possible to support your self-learning. But purchasing a black box system is definitely not the way to go.

 

I've got the most helpful infos from reading tons of books. But also here I've realized that there is no one book out there which has all the infos you need to trade successfully. You have to read many of them and put the pieces of the puzzle together by yourself.

 

The only way to learn it from someone else would be that this person takes the effort to point you in the right direction based on your individual psychology. This would be a very individual coaching or mentoring and surely difficult to find.

 

But no matter what your information source on trading is, you have to

 

- be critical about every piece of information you get, even if it is from a trustworthy source

- think for yourself and apply common sense

- develop your own approach to trading based on what fits best to your personality.

 

I am sure that this is the only way one can become a successful trader.

 

 

One more comment about forex, as the educational service I've attended was also very much focused on forex. The problem with forex is that it is marketed very aggressively to retail clients due to less regulation and attractive spreads for the brokers. However, this attracts also many people who try to take advantage from all the people who have no clue about trading and want to get started with forex as they saw this fancy ad somewhere. I would not call it a scam but these people see a business opportunity here and offer a service although they are not 100% suited to do so.

 

Hence, I would be VERY skeptical about any educational service or system which relies almost exclusively on forex. Why would one do that other than for marketing reasons? Of course, this alone is no proof that the service provided is a scam or the people offering it have no clue. However, one should be very cautious.

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I love not selling my course

but someday my course will be recognized as the holy grail

and I will be recognized for exceeding Jones's success

 

then I will feel free and be free

 

To think and speak ...

with passion ...

about things not as important

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Do people not read? I killed the project like months ago. I provide no services to anyone. I have no plans to ever put the course on the market. It never even went into printing. I think I have made that perfectly clear, repeatedly, adnausium.

 

This forum is full of crazy people.

 

Well, you did say you helped you friend out who was losing and in a very short while he was doing ok because he was able to get help from an experienced trader. That does sound magical to me. I think you did it over the internet too, not in person.

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you have hit it on the nail as well... there are people who genuinely have something to share... this thread is about the scammers, we are not talking about the good people you described. Some of my responses are specifically to those newbies who want to acquire the holy grail through purchasing a "system"... I believe your intentions are good.

 

This thread isn't about the scammers at all. It's about the personalities of people who are searching for an education and why they do it.

 

This isn't a thread for vendor bashing at all, let me make that 100% clear. But it is one to try to gain a better understanding of the psychology behind the buyer in this part of the trading industry.

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You know, one thing teaching martial arts has taught me is that any skill can be taught by breaking it down into a step, by step systematic teaching program designed to take the raw beginner from 'Know nothing' to proficient. My course was written form that experience. I designed it that way in large part because other courses I had gotten in the past were simply not structure the way people learn.

 

I actually took my martial arts curriculum,wrote it all out in one column, and on the other side of the page I wrote the corresponding trading skill for each level that I used to replace the martial arts skill. Like a martial arts program, there is an exam at the end of each level. one builds on the other, and you cannot progress to the next, unless you pass the test on the previous.

 

 

 

Maybe those are the smart one's who are willing to work hard and master what is essentially 2 year long course. You can't know without being personally involved in people's lives.

 

I have a 25 unit minimum at $80.00 a pop for the fulfillment company to produce them. So there is a fat chance someone could get this with a PM to me. I killed the project before the printing. There are only a handful of samples floating around. Those are in the hands of the guys who helped me write and produce it. No one is going to part with their copy.

 

I'll tell you what, I'm willing to bet that even the very best martial arts students would get their asses royally kicked if they were in a proper street fight. That's what markets are made up of. Seasoned, hardened and skilled street fighters. They will kick your ass even if you think you know "the book" off by heart and convince yourself you are good at it in a controlled environment.

 

You can't teach experience. You can teach things that might make people better placed to gain from their future experiences, but then they'd need some "capacity for experience" nevertheless. The problem is, all teachings generally focus on what the author 'does' instead of who they 'are'. If you can figure that one out then you stand a much better chance of gaining from the education they provide.

 

How do you know so many people are "Grail Seekers", and not all people who are actually looking to learn how to trade?

 

The thing is, how many people looking for "an education" get or even ask to see actual evidence of skill? Past performances or recognised third party qualifications might count here. But generally, it's all about the marketing and a feeling that people get about whether they are being told the truth or whether the educator is a good teacher/has good methods/might be suitable for that individual.

 

Perhaps it'd be better to have experienced profitable traders review these systems. The trouble is, why would they bother?(unless they get back handers then how are the results honest anyway?!)

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One of the best setups/stratgies in the market.....

 

you can trade this, and take it too the bank.....lifetime guarantee to work.....

 

Get on an internet site and ask a question ( "similar" to the theme of this thread and probably one of the most f...d up lazy, stupid questions you often see) ......and the question is

 

Can someone show/give me a system that makes money?

 

you may as well paste a target on you back and say take my money.

 

The reason people ask that answers your psychological question :2c:

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This thread isn't about the scammers at all. It's about the personalities of people who are searching for an education and why they do it.

 

 

I guess it can have different reasons, which are not only psychological.

 

 

Non-psychological probably:

 

Too much information about trading making it difficult for the newbie to distinguish good from bad.

 

The problem is, that the ones who figure it out don't share the information in detail but apply it for themselves (which is perfectly fine as it was hard enough for them to gain this knowledge).

 

 

Psychological:

 

- Lack of motivation, or

 

if someone moves from one system or education provider to another one in an endless cycle

 

- Being a follower, not taking full responsibility for one's actions/one's life

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- Being a follower, not taking full responsibility for one's actions/one's life

 

This is a really important point. Far too many people are much more comfortable with other people making decisions for them, rather than being completely accountable for their own actions.

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Well, you did say you helped you friend out who was losing and in a very short while he was doing ok because he was able to get help from an experienced trader. That does sound magical to me. I think you did it over the internet too, not in person.

 

That is hardly a service. It's two buddies talking trading. There is nothing magical about it. I taught him a bollinger band squeeze and how to trade break outs of it as well as some basic spear point entries and a few other little things.

 

I am sure it's all stuff the egotistical experts around here know intimately, and probably discount as "Amateurish"

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This is a really important point. Far too many people are much more comfortable with other people making decisions for them, rather than being completely accountable for their own actions.

 

You cannot succeed in this business if you are a follower.

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SPear: I think one of the resons you have gotten some "heat" here is that right now you are interacting with some actually successful traders...

 

What you don't know is how qualified some might be to teach, which some are, how successful- which to varying degrees from a few lot trader to size, some are. Right here on this thread.

 

Let's assume for a moment some here are qualified to do it - yet as far as I know, they do not... Why?

 

I wonder how many would actually tutor a friend or relative.. Think about what that could mean...if they don't succeed they may hold you responsible..where is the upside in that?

 

How do you think it would feel sitting across the Thanksgiving table with your brother-in-law or father-in-law for the rest of your life or a true friend -whose relationship you valued -not an acquaintance who failed at trading after you "helped."

 

I look at this as a trade in some ways..my downside is signifigently higher than my upside since I know the probabilities of anyone succeeding in this business are substantially skewed to the downside ...industry ststistics - not mine plus 30+ years of observation.

 

Can I teach - yes. I really enjoy sharing my passion for trading. Nothing comes remotely close. Can I help someone trying to learn - probably. Would they succeed?

 

Should I monitize my experience, trading education and create a business to leverage my yield on my trading business? Not me..

 

What I do is give it away on this forum..Mostly it is not what I do right, which I do point out some trades, the thinking, structure, etc but I stress what I do wrong... I make mistakes everyday...that is where we must fight our own demons, ourselves..that is what I post... the good and the ugly... Once you get this business down, the challange is all mental...

 

You said you didn't sell your course...that is good..I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are...

 

We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all of us and the newbies would appreciate it..

Edited by roztom

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SPear: I think one of the resons you have gotten some "heat" here is that right now you are interacting with some actually successful traders...

 

What you don't know is how qualified some might be to teach, which some are, how successful- which to varying degrees from a few lot trader to size, some are. Right here on this thread.

 

Let's assume for a moment some here are qualified to do it - yet as far as I know, they do not... Why?

 

I wonder how many would actually tutor a friend or relative.. Think about what that could mean...if they don't succeed they may hold you responsible..where is the upside in that?

 

How do you think it would feel sitting across the Thanksgiving table with your brother-in-law or father-in-law for the rest of your life or a true friend -whose relationship you valued -not an acquaintance who failed at trading after you "helped."

 

I look at this as a trade in some ways..my downside is signifigently higher than my upside since I know the probabilities of anyone succeeding in this business are substantially skewed to the downside ...industry ststistics - not mine plus 30+ years of observation.

 

Can I teach - yes. I really enjoy sharing my passion for trading. Nothing comes remotely close. Can I help someone trying to learn - probably. Would they succeed?

 

Should I monitize my experience, trading education and create a business to leverage my yield on my trading business? Not me..

 

What I do is give it away on this forum..Mostly it is not what I do right, which I do point out some trades, the thinking, structure, etc but I stress what I do wrong... I make mistakes everyday...that is where we must fight our own demons, ourselves..that is what I post... the good and the ugly... Once you get this business down, the challange is all mental...

 

You said you didn't sell your course...that is good..I'm still not sure what the point of your posts are...

 

We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all the newbies would appreciate it..

 

The point of my posts was that the over all theme of the thread was that only scammers sell their courses. *I* am not a scammer, and I very genuinely wrote down what I do in great detail. I never had any intention of scamming anyone. Yet somehow as soon as the idea to sell the course got around, I all of a sudden got turned into a slime ball.

 

since I am not a slimebal, or a scammer, and never intended to rip anyone off, my thought is that the perception is not only false, but likely propagated by people who have never even examined all these courses in the first place, and thus have no basis for condemning them. Tamms proved my point quite eloquently.

 

Now I am just sort of following the after party.

Edited by SpearPointTrader

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We all want/need to grow.. community is a important part of it... if you have something to contribute here than why don't you show us how you can help.. I'm sure all of us and the newbies would appreciate it..

 

So, after the forum totally disparages me for all my hard work and genuine desire to share, now you want me to just give it away to you for free? Really?

 

Fat chance.

 

I'll stick to being open on the forum I have been posting on for 10 years. I dumped my whole system on them, over time, because they are respectful and appreciated my input. And quite frankly, those guys helped me immensely in the first place anyway.

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It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood, who strives valiantly; who errs and comes short again and again; because there is not effort without error and shortcomings; but who does actually strive to do the deed; who knows the great enthusiasm, the great devotion, who spends himself in a worthy cause, who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement and who at the worst, if he fails, at least he fails while daring greatly. So that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat.

 

Theodore Roosevelt

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

... was notified that the two words "Theodore Roosevelt" is too short of a message. I guess the characters in qoutes aren't counted... Hence these filler characters... are there enough characters yet ??

 

Mods, feel free to edit out the line feeds :)

... and maybe change the rules about character counts.

What if someone wanted to just post the word "Yes" ???

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So, after the forum totally disparages me for all my hard work and genuine desire to share, now you want me to just give it away to you for free? Really?

 

Fat chance.

 

I'll stick to being open on the forum I have been posting on for 10 years. I dumped my whole system on them, over time, because they are respectful and appreciated my input. And quite frankly, those guys helped me immensely in the first place anyway.

 

Well, I'm sure many of us will be dissappointed that we will be deprived of your expertise.

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I'd like to move on to the original premise of this Thread...

 

Why people will pay anyone, let alone the scammers to learn to trade..

 

I wonder how many have paid for someones DVD's, Books, Seminars, On line Chat rooms, etc, etc.

 

I'd be very suprised if we all didn't do some of it at various times... I certianly have and I came out of the industry and was exposed too some "brillant" traders..

 

The more I gathered the more deadends I encountered.. Some of those deadends took over a year to jetison... Elliot Wave comes to mind just for one... I have a list so long that when I go back to the beginning I ask myself what was I smoking??

 

I just was searching..and I would have paid anything to get the answers...WHY..I wanted to stop the pain, frustration and confusion.. I wanted to succeed.. I think it is human nature to want to get mentored..

 

Until you master this trading thing all you can do is relate it to your own life experiences which is centered on structured education...so we tend to follow that path..

 

Unfotunately unlike the "real" world, trading is not especially replicable. Some of the structural part is in many respects replicable...a chart is a chart, a pattern is a pattern - you can learn to recognize that at its most basic level etc. but it is the rest of it.. how and what to do with it - the alignment...the mental process to create a decision making path from whatever structure you recognize to take action... that is where it breaks down.

 

How aligned do you have to be to sit in a University class to pass the exam? Not even close to what trading is but how would you know?

 

And there are a never ending list of vendors good and bad waiting to help you fulfill your dreams.. what most vendors don't, won't or can't tell you is that it is all on your shoulders not theirs for you to succeed..

 

I have been fortunate to know successful traders in my career..when we talk shop we talk the same stuff.. "we know" but that is where it starts & stops..

 

I reference my 20 - 50 lot ES buddy. He thinks I'm nuts for trading my size and scaling them out instead of trading larger for shorter targets (he is a member/lower cost).

 

Who's right? We both are..

 

How does that relate to buying a course..the same issue how do you take it and play it like its your own? I don't think too many can.. but everyone thinks they'll be the one :2c:

Edited by roztom

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    • Those who take quick and payday loans and refuse to pay them back are now hooked.   Normally, it is not a good thing to go into debt unless that is your last resort. We know that people are fond of borrowing and they seriously hate paying it back. Even when it comes to paying back what was borrowed, your creditor will become your enemy. Such is the nature of human beings.   Debtors don’t want to return money even when they eventually have means of repayment. If anyone borrows money and returns it, it means the person has a Godly spirit in him.   If people ponder the power of compound interest, they would stay away from loans. If you pay 1.33% or 1.79% interest per month on a loan, you will need to pay back roughly 16% or 20% per annum. And this will begin to compound as long as you don’t pay.   Most borrowers who are now in trouble have realized that the interest rates are eventually higher than the capitals borrowed. They realize that the creditors are using an indirect way to enslave borrowers (go and work for me, bring back the capital plus profits).   The banks themselves know that business environment is very tough and are now indirectly asking people to work with or spend the banks’ funds and bring the funds plus profits back to them. Many borrowers really have poor mentality and they don’t know the gravity of what they’re putting themselves into.   If a bank could lend out 1 billion USD per annum, it would reap a return of 150 million USD (at least on paper). Do you think they will forget about you if you owe them even a small amount?   Loans without collateral are now popular. But your collateral is your BVN – unless you don’t want to operate accounts again in the country.   I have heard people saying” Don’t pay to my Access Bank account again, but pay into my UBA bank account.” “Don’t send that cash into my GTBank account again, but send it to Zenith Bank.” It’s like postponing the evil day.   Ti iya o ba i tii je eniyan, iya nri nkan panu lowo ni (Yoruba adage). I literally means: If Suffering has not come to attack you, it means Suffering is currently busy with something. If you think you can avoid payment by abandoning the account you used to borrow money, you’re only postponing the evil day.   They cannot come for you when your debt is small, but the debt will begin to compound and compound till it would make sense for them to come for you.   BAD NEWS FOR DEBTORS CBN has given banks permission to deduct from funds a debtor has in another bank account. For example, if you borrow quick loans from FCMB and you abandon your FCMB account and you are now operating another account with First Bank, FCMB can make a request to First Bank, and the money you owed will be deducted once or gradually from your account at First Bank, without your permission.   Would you now keep money at home, so that bad boys will come to you to take their dues?   Borrowing isn’t a good thing, no matter how plausible it looks.   Profits from games of knowledge: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • LITECOIN (LTC) SUSTAINS RECENT RALLIES, FACES RESISTANCE AT $90 HIGH Key Highlights Litecoin rallies to the high of $90 The crypto may be range-bound between $80 and $90 Litecoin (LTC) Current Statistics The current price: $89.20 Market Capitalization: $5,900,735,267 Trading Volume: $7,953,660,011 Major supply zones: $70, $80, $90 Major demand zones: $50, $30, $10 Litecoin (LTC) Price Analysis November 24, 2020 Litecoin has continued its rallies as the coin reached a high of $89.86. LTC price has been making a series of higher highs and higher lows. The upward move has been facing resistance at $90. On the upside, if buyers can push LTC above $90, the coin will rally above $100 high. However, if buyers fail to resume the upside momentum, LTC will be compelled to a sideways move for a few days. If the uptrend is resisted the coin will be range bound between $80 and $90. LTC/USD – Daily Chart Litecoin (LTC) Technical Indicators Reading LTC price broke the resistance line of the ascending channel. This indicates a further upward movement of the coin. The crypto is at level 74 of the Relative Strength Index period 14. It indicates that the coin is in the overbought region of the market. LTC/USD – 4 Hour Chart Conclusion Litecoin has made an impressive bullish run on the upside. Nevertheless, the retraced candle body on October 31 tested the 61.8% Fibonacci retracement level. It indicates that the coin will rise to a level of 1.618 Fibonacci extension level. This extension is equivalent to $70 high. Meanwhile, the price action is above the projected price level. Source: https://learn2.trade 
    • XRP/USD PULLS BACK AT RESISTANCE LEVEL OF $0.72 XRP/USD MARKET NOVEMBER 26 After the price retracement, it may resume its bullish trend and the resistance level of $0.79 and $0.88 may be reached. Below the current price, the level is found the support levels at $0.55, $0.44, and $0.39. However, the relative strength index period 14 is at 70 levels bending down to indicate a sell signal which may be a pullback. KEY LEVELS: Resistance levels: $0.72, $0.79, $0.88 Support levels: $0.61, $0.55, $0.49 XRP/USD Long-term Trend: Bullish XRPUSD is bullish in the long-term outlook; the crypto soars towards the north by the strong bullish momentum. The bulls’ momentum breaks up the resistance levels of $0.28, $0.33, and $0.36. The price has tested the resistance level of $0.79 on October 24. The price pulls back to retest the broken level of $0.61. Today, the XRP market is dominated by the bears and the daily candle is bearish. The price may increase further after the pullback. XRPUSD Daily chart, November 26 The two EMAs are located below the coin and it is trading far above 9 periods EMA and 21 periods EMA which indicate a strong bullish momentum. After the price retracement, it may resume its bullish trend and the resistance level of $0.79 and $0.88 may be reached. Below the current price, the support levels is found at $0.55, $0.44, and $0.39. However, the relative strength index period 14 is at 70 levels bending down to indicate a sell signal which may be a pullback. XRP/USD medium-term Trend: Bullish The bulls dominate the XRPUSD market. Immediately after the breakout from the consolidation zone, the bulls push the price high above the September high. It is currently pulling back at the resistance level of $0.72. The price is testing the support level of $0.55 at the time of writing this report. In case the just mentioned level does not hold, there will be a further price reduction. XRPUSD 4-Hour chart, November 26 The price has penetrated the two EMAs downside and it is trading below 9 periods EMA and 21 periods EMA. The fast-moving EMA is trying to cross the slow-moving EMA downside. The relative strength index period 14 is pointing down at 50 levels which connotes a sell signal and it may be a pullback.   Source: https://learn2.trade 
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