Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

Come on, I'll sell you my secret to trading success for only $4999.99! It's a deal, it's a steal, it's the sale of the f*%ki^! century! Everyone is eligible(even a 3yr old toddler). Buy my system and make a fortune!

 

(please btw if anyone sees this and thinks I am actually selling a system, don't contact me. I'm not selling a system or anything- just to be 100% clear!!!!!)

 

Another thread had me thinking again about a perpetual problem that we come across in our forums and on the internet in general. A trader noob wants success and either pays for a system or pays for an education. But what bothers me is not that people are selling services of any kind as I believe we have demonstrated elsewhere in our forums that actually there are some good vendors out there just as there are some good used car salesmen and real estate agents(please don't take offense if this is your profession- it is a stereotype which I'm merely pointing out). The thing that perplexes and even annoys me is that there are people who seem to think they can spend a couple of $k on a system or training then they will be set and be the next gazillionaire Paul Tudor Jones style trader.

 

No offense, but wtf!? I don't get it. I really don't understand what an individual thinks they are likely to get without very much effort? If say I saw someone with a system who wanted to sell to a bank or hedgefund, I could see the advantage to the seller of that system of it being mindblowingly good(not to say it would be). Think about it. Many people before they try to trade might earn say $50, $100 or even much more per hour. At those rates, a system that sells for $5k is the equivalent of 100-200 hours. Just for illustration purposes, Gladwell in his book "Outliers" suggests it takes 10,000 hours to truly master a skill. Go figure.

 

Even if the system is good and works and is robust enough to be productive in the future, there's this "plug and play" expectation I just can't get my head around. People buy a system or training and expect it to just work straight away!?! Well maybe the digital age has kind of messed with people's understanding that it takes hard, hard work to succeed in general.

 

What interests me in the mindset of a person who thinks it's a good idea to pay someone in this way(don't worry I have categorically no desire to start a training or system service). So, if you have been this person in the past or now(not saying it's definitely right or wrong) then I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on why you handed over your cash. If anyone you know did this then that also qualifies. Or even if you just have an opinion. This isn't a thread for vendor bashing at all, let me make that 100% clear. But it is one to try to gain a better understanding of the psychology behind the buyer in this part of the trading industry.

Edited by TheNegotiator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have to answer your question with a question

 

How someone supposed to get his/her trading education?

By reading chat’s room thread for 10,000 hours? (To complete the minimum required hours)

 

Maybe start trading and learn as you go…?

 

What is exactly “hard work” that one needs for success?

 

As in my case I’m ready to pay the $500 to a decent educator who has a very good reputation in the trading industry one who was the mentor of many of the best educators in the industry

 

I hate to admit it but there is no free lunch in the trading industry

Edited by khamore1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to answer your question with a question

 

How someone supposed to get his/her trading education?

By reading chat’s room thread for 10,000 hours? (To complete the minimum required hours)

 

Maybe start trading and learn as you go…?

 

What is exactly “hard work” that one needs for success?

 

In any way they want to. The point is that the expectation of being able to pay someone to get a short cut is not useful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Take out all the greed, stupidity, laziness and other such human flaws.....maybe its as simple as the normal economic/transaction principles of the expectation of paying for a service.

Hence if you pay for something you would hope it would live up to expectations.

If you went to a doctor/lawyer/dentist/banker/plumber/builder and paid them, thats ok,

 

but would you go to a Doctor that promises a miracle cure all for only $5000? Probably not, and are Doctors allowed to do such things.

 

Now maybe the question is - how are these people allowed to get away with the marketing ??

 

Or maybe its as simple as - there is a sucker born every minute - I have been sucked into things (not trading scams) but other things - such as when my lawyer said this is all under control, no problems, $10,000 thanks.....and then oh, sorry- we forgot to tell you that once you are in, its actually more expensive to close the company/trust/corporate structure down than to set it up......doh!.......and yet at the time we thought we asked them for a quick fix. :doh:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Take out all the greed, stupidity, laziness and other such human flaws.....maybe its as simple as the normal economic/transaction principles of the expectation of paying for a service.

Hence if you pay for something you would hope it would live up to expectations.

If you went to a doctor/lawyer/dentist/banker/plumber/builder and paid them, thats ok,

 

but would you go to a Doctor that promises a miracle cure all for only $5000? Probably not, and are Doctors allowed to do such things.

 

Now maybe the question is - how are these people allowed to get away with the marketing ??

 

Or maybe its as simple as - there is a sucker born every minute - I have been sucked into things (not trading scams) but other things - such as when my lawyer said this is all under control, no problems, $10,000 thanks.....and then oh, sorry- we forgot to tell you that once you are in, its actually more expensive to close the company/trust/corporate structure down than to set it up......doh!.......and yet at the time we thought we asked them for a quick fix. :doh:

 

Definitely a school boy error I'm afraid Siuya! A lawyer only tells you the truth on the current exact situation. Sort of like a statistician I suppose.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I have to answer your question with a question

 

How someone supposed to get his/her trading education?

By reading chat’s room thread for 10,000 hours? (To complete the minimum required hours)

 

Maybe start trading and learn as you go…?

 

What is exactly “hard work” that one needs for success?

 

As in my case I’m ready to pay the $500 to a decent educator who has a very good reputation in the trading industry one who was the mentor of many of the best educators in the industry

 

I hate to admit it but there is no free lunch in the trading industry

 

How do you want to do your education is none of my business,

all I can tell you is, some of the "ways" will not get you there.

One of the way is to buy a system.

 

and for sure one thing, no profitable trader will give away a system for $500.

 

Just think, take inventory...

who are the prospective students?

you won't find many diligent conscientious humble eager learners.

I can tell you who you will find:

they are usually full of fantasy of get rich quick

dream of wealth without labour,

under capitalized,

got ego,

want to get everything for nothing,

argumentative,

have weird logic,

rationalize everything to suite his cause,

have excuse for every fail, but never own up to any responsibilities,

social outcasts.

 

Just think...

Why any sensible trader would give up precious time for $500 to baby sit these losers?

 

the answer is simple,

no sensible profitable trader would do that,

only scammers would.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

having said the above,

all is not lost. There is still hope, there are still ways.

 

First, there are good hearted, good natured, successful beyond means profitable traders who would mentor, and they would mentor for free.

 

They don't need your $500, or $5,000.

They want to pass on their skill to someone who is willing to learn.

Unfortunately most people do not want to learn, they just want to get rich quick.

 

Second, there are good hearted, good natured, successful beyond means profitable traders who would mentor, through writings on the web. And they would mentor for free.

 

They don't need your $500, or $5,000.

They want to pass on their skill to someone who is willing to learn.

Unfortunately most people do not want to learn, they just want to argue.

 

 

The writings are preserved on the web, freely available to those who want to learn.

 

One might ask, there are so many writings on the web, how do I know which is good and which is bad.

Well, if you cannot discern the substance from the fluff, you probably do not have to ability to discern a bear trap in a bull run, and probably trading is not something you should pursue.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There are paid mentors.

 

I am not saying there are no good paid mentors.

There are good profitable traders who would take on students for a fee.

They are few and far in between,

they are difficult to find,

and even more difficult to persuade them to take you on as a student.

 

 

How much are you willing to paid for such a tutuorship?

 

 

Well, lets do some math.

 

How much do you think you will earn after you have learned his system?

 

1) I don't know. How could I know?

2) $1,000 per month

3) $5,000 per month

4) more than $5k per month

 

 

if your answer is 1, you have just failed the entrance exam. His system is not for you. Move on.

 

if your answer is 2 or above,

then how much do you think the mentor is worth?

 

Would $500 do it?

Would $5,000 do it?

 

or many be you meant $500 per day?

 

 

 

I will let you do the cost/benefit math.

 

 

 

enjoy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Maybe start trading and learn as you go…?

 

 

Maybe start trading and learn as you go…?

YES X

That is precisely the way to get your trading education. The best way to learn any performance game is to play the game for real. That is the best, most direct way to finding out what methods align with your true nature, to find out who and what you must truly embody to have staying power, what you need or want to improve upon next, to find where your current ‘blind spots’ are. Uncover / learn the vision of the trading you really want to do by actual trading. If trading is really for you, the discrepancies that will blatantly appear will feed you instead of discourage you.

 

What is exactly “hard work” that one needs for success?

 

 

The hard work is you finding first if, then how, you fit with trading these auctions.

The way you trade must naturally fit with the individual ‘oddities’ of your own perceptual comportment. Once you get really grounded in how you see things, in what informations you are interested in / consider important, what type of trading techniques are right for you, then guess what!? the right teachers will appear and that money will be well spent!

 

Taking the courses first is bass-ackwards. I personally think you would be better off buying $500 of lottery tickets than paying $500 to “a decent educator who has a very good reputation”… not because of the educator‘s intentions or lack of quality , but because there is such a low probability that what he is teaching has significant relevance to your own nature and the styles, etc you will ultimately develop if you are indeed going to ‘make it’. (ie... just because some find what they really want by the raw juxtaposition of their slowly appearing vision with the 'reality' of the attractive and inexpensive trade school they chose does not make this kind of $500 'education' the best way to find your way...)

 

Life is short. If trading is for you, the average of 10,000 hours, (ie 3 – 23k hours) will be a labor of love and throughout you will be getting much more out of it than just the money... if that's not happening for you, find some other game to play. Life is short.

 

"Find your own way!" zdo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

Assuming that such a person exist and made it on his own don’t you think had that person had a mentor it would take him half the time to reach the point of success….(than how much this worth?)

 

That’s for you Tams. Why do you think a $500 trading course is worthless and $5000 an hour is a bargain? Do you know who Don Jones is?

 

This for you ZDO. I tried to be smart and learn as I go….. I lost $630K in four months. Wall Street is very expensive teacher

 

I don’t understand what all the commotion is about all I asked in my other post was to give me a feed back (good or bad) about Don Jones seminar

 

I’m not going to pay a dime to any trading educator unless I find out he/she worth it

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

My advice (and I am not a professional trader) is as follows:

 

- Read/watch lots of stuff by lots of different people. Spend lots of time thinking about what you read/hear/see. Basically expose yourself to as much input of ideas as possible.

 

Spend lots of time testing these ideas. Some may work. Some may be so poor that doing the precise opposite could be profitable. Some will have bits of worthwhile information that can be combined with other bits of worthwhile information.

 

As you test hundreds of different ideas on your chosen market you'll slowly build up a 'toolbox' of things that work and things that don't. You'll develop the kind of intuitive knowledge of how your market moves that discretionary traders develop through thousands of hours of screen-time.

 

A critical part of this process is understanding how to test your idea properly. As well as the well known pitfall of curve-fitting there are a whole host of other things you need to beware of. You aren't likely to find this information in most trading books, however - you'll need to read books on statistical inference and data mining.

 

If you're smart enough you should eventually reach some valid conclusions that will enable you to trade a market profitably.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

Assuming that such a person exist and made it on his own don’t you think had that person had a mentor it would take him half the time to reach the point of success….(than how much this worth?)

 

That’s for you Tams. Why do you think a $500 trading course is worthless and $5000 an hour is a bargain?

Do you know who Don Jones is?

 

This for you ZDO. I tried to be smart and learn as I go….. I lost $630K in four months. Wall Street is very expensive teacher

 

I don’t understand what all the commotion is about all I asked in my other post was to give me a feed back (good or bad) about Don Jones seminar

 

I’m not going to pay a dime to any trading educator unless I find out he/she worth it

 

I don't know who Don Jones is.

Should I know him?

You seem to worship him.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

Assuming that such a person exist and made it on his own don’t you think had that person had a mentor it would take him half the time to reach the point of success….(than how much this worth?)

 

That’s for you Tams. Why do you think a $500 trading course is worthless and $5000 an hour is a bargain? Do you know who Don Jones is?

 

This for you ZDO. I tried to be smart and learn as I go….. I lost $630K in four months. Wall Street is very expensive teacher

 

I don’t understand what all the commotion is about all I asked in my other post was to give me a feed back (good or bad) about Don Jones seminar

 

I’m not going to pay a dime to any trading educator unless I find out he/she worth it

 

Commotion?

You got feedbacks.

The feedback might not necessary what you want to hear, but they are feedbacks.

 

:-(

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes Tams, if you’re in the trading business as long as you’re you should know about Don Jones

 

Here is a link: CISCO Futures

 

I don’t worship the guy… I only heard about him and am trying to find out if there is a professional trader out there who makes money using his method

 

As a matter of fact I’m trying to do what BlueHorseshoe advice me to do

 

Quote:

BlueHorseshoe: “Read/watch lots of stuff by lots of different people. Spend lots of time thinking about what you read/hear/see. Basically expose yourself to as much input of ideas as possible.”

Edited by khamore1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

Assuming that such a person exist and made it on his own don’t you think had that person had a mentor it would take him half the time to reach the point of success….(than how much this worth?)

 

That’s for you Tams. Why do you think a $500 trading course is worthless and $5000 an hour is a bargain? Do you know who Don Jones is?

 

This for you ZDO. I tried to be smart and learn as I go….. I lost $630K in four months. Wall Street is very expensive teacher

 

I don’t understand what all the commotion is about all I asked in my other post was to give me a feed back (good or bad) about Don Jones seminar

 

I’m not going to pay a dime to any trading educator unless I find out he/she worth it

 

re: Why do you think a $500 trading course is worthless and $5000 an hour is a bargain?

 

 

You seem to have reply to me before reading my post. Why? Why bother?

I have already given you the answer to the exact question you are asking.

Please read my post again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes Tams, if you’re in the trading business as long as you’re you should know about Don Jones

 

Here is a link: CISCO Futures

 

I don’t worship the guy… I only heard about him and am trying to find out if there is a professional trader out there who makes money using his method

 

As a matter of fact I’m trying to do what BlueHorseshoe advice me to do

 

Quote:

BlueHorseshoe: “Read/watch lots of stuff by lots of different people. Spend lots of time thinking about what you read/hear/see. Basically expose yourself to as much input of ideas as possible.”

 

No, I am not in the trading business. I am a trader. There is a difference.

 

I don't know Don Jones, never heard of him, and have no need for his product or services.

 

If you think he has something to offer, by all means get it. And report to us on your findings.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes Tams, if you’re in the trading business as long as you’re you should know about Don Jones

 

I placed my first trade in 1986 at the tender age of eighteen. This is the first I have ever heard of Don Jones in all those 26 years since.

 

I do know a handful of guys who have quietly accumulated fortunes speculating in the financial markets who you will never "know about," no matter how long you wallow in "the trading business."

 

"The trading business" is an industry populated almost entirely by individuals who know not the first thing about extracting a profit from the markets who sell the promise of profits to those who want to know how to trade in order to extract profits from the markets.

 

If you want to be a trader, I suggest you get out of the trading business, because no matter which end of it your on, you will not become a trader.

 

Traders trade. Some also mentor aspiring traders from time to time. I've done it myself, but when I have dones so, it was for no other reason than my desire to help that particular individual. I've taken fees for managing money, but never for helping someone try to figure out his or her trading game.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes Tams, if you’re in the trading business as long as you’re you should know about Don Jones

 

Here is a link: CISCO Futures

 

I don’t worship the guy… I only heard about him and am trying to find out if there is a professional trader out there who makes money using his method

 

As a matter of fact I’m trying to do what BlueHorseshoe advice me to do

 

Quote:

BlueHorseshoe: “Read/watch lots of stuff by lots of different people. Spend lots of time thinking about what you read/hear/see. Basically expose yourself to as much input of ideas as possible.”

 

I looked at Don Jones way back in 2008 when I was interested in MP but I did not get involved. I have no idea if the material has changed, but it did seem sort of outdated and nothing more than I could have gotten from reading Mind over Markets. The material he has on his website, you can get for free elsewhere if that is what you are interested in.

 

Save your money and spend the time reading about the successes and failures of other traders who post. You need to be able to know the difference between truth and fiction. There are lots of fiction writers on this site and there are good people who share their experience with A, B, or C.

 

A good group of traders to ignore are the traders who never lose or only report their wins. They are generally the traders who tell fairy tales.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

anyone notice that a lot of the trading indicators that are similar get you in at roughly similar levels and the rest is just curve fitting....or is that just me?

 

and Kahmore1 "I lost $630K in four months"- then if that is a small part of your overall fortune then no problems, an expensive in absolute terms lesson, but small relative expense, however if not then first lesson (for free ;))

- you are likely either ---

----overtrading and feeding your broker,

----or you have not done any testing (which means buying another system wont help)

-----or you are using way too much leverage

(most likely the first two.)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Mia Culpa:

 

When I started out in 1980 I bought every book - established a huge library,

 

1. Subscribed to various newsletter/advisories, Cycle trading, Seasonals, etc.

2. Purchased systems, bought black box systems (even from Bill Cruz before he started Omega Research of TradeStation).

3. Took classical bar charting courses at CME (Cost $24) Invaluable!!

4. Purchased System Writer Plus and wrote trading systems - curve fitted, over optimized, walked forward..thought complexity trumped simplicity. (Not)

5. Subscribed to a trading system newsletters - Bought a few, useless except to deconstruct-- to learn.

6. Lagging indicators -studies, Gann, Elliott, Fractals, Fib's, Hurst, Market Profile

7. Worked with George Lane in 1980 -1982 with an Apple Computer who invented Stochastics - it was the Holy Grail (we thought) at the time - it wasn't in the public domain yet. (Wouldn't put it on my screen today)

8. Researched various oscillator configurations - thought the Holy Grail was just around the corner - didn't understand the flaws in lagging indicators. (Learned)

9. Attended several seminars - the most benificial by Pete Steidelmeir of Market Profile fame... Learned Auction Theory, couldn't use MP..abandoned it for years until Volume Profiles - ding, ding, ding.

10. Purchased tons of various latest & greatest software packages as they were released, etc, etc, etc. after being reviewed in Futures Mag.

 

Too many more to remember at the moment but been there, done that...

 

Many deadends... blew up several trading accounts.. lived through locked limit moves against me, margin calls and despair...

 

Trading at that time in the early 1980's was a mostly isolated profession - other than at the Exchange there was no way to be part of a community like we have today, there was no information available at your fingertips... the traders I knew at CBOT/CME were mostly floor traders, not even remotely similar to what we do.. nobody had the answers for a screen trader since when I started we barely had screens.. a quote machine was basically it.. a realtime Tic chart cost over $700/mo - in 1980!! a breakthrough - you had to run a phone line to Mass. to get data..I think it was ADP Comptrend.

 

There was no daytrading..it was positions, trend following. Swing Trading was aggressive..

 

Screen traders really didn't exist except in a corner of a room..the Exchange members thought I was out of my mind..we could not relate at all. (Actually they were right) :missy:

 

At the time, there really weren't any other ways to get an education and I did the best I could under the circumstances. Nobody was there to mentor me -

 

I was a hair late to be part of the Turtle Trading Group put together by Richard Dennis.. they had just stopped taking applications when I showed up - that might have helped -do you think? :doh:

 

Today, none of that is necessary..All the answers are right here and on the web... at your fingertips... and in yourself..

 

This journey has many components. It never stops being a continuing learning experience.. Today I am successful but there were many years I was not..

 

When someone asks me how to do this I can give them generic ideas but I can't give them a Plug & Play solution..I also cannot give them the tenacity and commitment it takes to make this into a business.. I cannot get them to bypass screen time..you can't buy someone elses experience.

 

I still post simple questions - about the basics..why?..I want to see if things have changed..they have not. It is all the same... sure there are slicker software packages packed with indicators - I admit to use a few... but very little... most are redundent - useless crap.. IMHO.

 

The point of this is not to knock vendors but to say it is all out there. However, you must align what is there to yourself.. this is no easy task since you will never truly know yourself and have any opportunity to succeed until you do..:2c:

Edited by roztom

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I challenge any professional, profitable day trader, to come forward and declare in this forum he /she paid less than $10,000 for trading education …. I don’t believe such a person exist

 

I would turn it around and ask if there has ever been a "professional" trader that paid more than $10 000 for trading education.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I would turn it around and ask if there has ever been a "professional" trader that paid more than $10 000 for trading education.

 

I sure have..in time, capital, hardware, software, brain damage, opportunity loss... that was/is my educational cost.

 

When I make errors I am still paying...

 

I know you are asking specifically about vendors but vendors come in many configurations... I think it is easy to accrue those costs if you have spent any time in this business especially if you don't have access to other traders and trader communities... :2c:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Mia Culpa:

 

When I started out in 1980 I bought every book - established a huge library,

 

1. Subscribed to various newsletter/advisories, Cycle trading, Seasonals, etc.

2. Purchased systems, bought black box systems (even from Bill Cruz before he started Omega Research of TradeStation).

3. Took classical bar charting courses at CME (Cost $24) Invaluable!!

4. Purchased System Writer Plus and wrote trading systems - curve fitted, over optimized, walked forward..thought complexity trumped simplicity. (Not)

5. Subscribed to a trading system newsletters - Bought a few, useless except to deconstruct-- to learn.

6. Lagging indicators -studies, Gann, Elliott, Fractals, Fib's, Hurst, Market Profile

7. Worked with George Lane in 1980 -1982 with an Apple Computer who invented Stochastics - it was the Holy Grail (we thought) at the time - it wasn't in the public domain yet. (Wouldn't put it on my screen today)

8. Researched various oscillator configurations - thought the Holy Grail was just around the corner - didn't understand the flaws in lagging indicators. (Learned)

9. Attended several seminars - the most benificial by Pete Steidelmeir of Market Profile fame... Learned Auction Theory, couldn't use MP..abandoned it for years until Volume Profiles - ding, ding, ding.

10. Purchased tons of various latest & greatest software packages as they were released, etc, etc, etc. after being reviewed in Futures Mag.

 

Too many more to remember at the moment but been there, done that...

 

Many deadends... blew up several trading accounts.. lived through locked limit moves against me, margin calls and despair...

 

Trading at that time in the early 1980's was a mostly isolated profession - other than at the Exchange there was no way to be part of a community like we have today, there was no information available at your fingertips... the traders I knew at CBOT/CME were mostly floor traders, not even remotely similar to what we do.. nobody had the answers for a screen trader since when I started we barely had screens.. a quote machine was basically it.. a realtime Tic chart cost over $700/mo - a breakthrough - you had to run a phone line to Mass. to get data..I think it was ADP Comptrend. Screen traders really didn't exist except in a corner of a room..the Exchange members thought I was out of my mind.. (Actually they were right) :missy:

 

At the time there really weren't any other ways to get an education and I did the best I could under the circumstances. Nobody was there to mentor me -

 

I was a hair late to be part of the Turtle Trading Group put together by Richard Dennis.. that might have helped -do you think? :doh:

 

Today, none of that is necessary..All the answers are right here and on the web... at your fingertips... and in yourself..

 

This journey has many components. It never stops being a continuing learning experience.. Today I am successful but there were many years I was not..

 

When someone asks me how to do this I can give them generic ideas but I can't give them a Plug & Play solution..I also cannot give them the tenacity and commitment it takes to make this into a business.. I cannot get them to bypass screen time..you can't buy someone elses experience.

 

I still post simple questions - about the basics..why?..I want to see if things have changed..they have not. It is all the same... sure there are slicker software packages packed with indicators - I admit to use a few... but very little...

 

The point of this is not to knock vendors but to say it is all out there. However, you must align what is there to yourself.. this is no easy task since you will never truly know yourself and have any opportunity to succeed until you do..:2c:

 

 

i have to say your admissions are brilliant.. There is a saying in another set of rooms that i have been a part of for 16 years.. You have to be willing to go to any lengths.. The funny thing is every great trader "known" trader has leaked their style just in their personality! Who are you is the question you should be asking! I am a 34 year old guy who generally is very happy, fights depressive and anxiety disorder, been sober for 16 years, and never buying the hype.. My first lesson in hype was buying a bag of seeds and stems! my second was figuring out how to pass the lies on! The first lie you tell yourself is that its ok to lie! ANY GUY CALLING ME telling me he has traded for 25 years and wants me to join his trading rooms on a trial can kick rocks! I love trading ! i officially started last summer even though i've watched it and been curious about it for years.

The first thing i did was lose 6 grand buying call options near term.. The second thing i did was create of list of books from searching Google.. like anything in life.. enjoy the process focus on it, and success will be secondary.. READ READ READ.. most recent book i read i love it.. "Inside the Investors Brain" , loved "New Market Wizards" "Options Market Making" oh by the way.. i've made that 6 grand back plus.. if anything has been stamped into my head its been.. position sizing, DONT MARTINGALE, learn about gamblers fallacies, never put yourself at a risk of complete ruin,

I don't believe in paper trading except in to get used to a new console or trading platform.. All paper trading will do is give you false confidence. Use a smaller then normal contract to trade if your scared.. Treat yourself like an investment vehicle.. if you start losing use less and less money to trade. I love it when people are Honest and talk about how they blew up their accounts! keep speaking the truth!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes the first post is very true, unfortunately as the is no regulation on what is put on to the world wide web, load of these so called systems have popped up over the last couple of years. It is a trap for the beginner trader, as I can imagine most have fallen fall in the past.

 

It is human nurture to take an easy option, hard work doesn't stem well with most.

 

Most of the systems prob do work under the control of a disiplened trader, but as you could imagine, the beginner trader gets impatient and changes systems.

 

I am of the firm believe that it is vertically impossible to learn how to trade out of a book, you can learn the theory but in practice you need a mentor to guide you thru the hard time, which there always is.

 

To become a trader you need to learn that it is hard, even if it means spending $5000 on a sure thing system. And learning that it is nothing more that a few standard indicators.

 

We all start as a beginner trader and buying an expessive system is nothing more than buying an expensive lotterie ticket, the chances of it working out are probably the same odds. The difference is if you applied the disiplin needed you would have a much better chance.

I don't blame people for falling into the quick rich trap, I only blame the stupid people who fall for it more than once.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.