Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Recommended Posts

I'm curious what best bounds a trend:

method 1- placing point 2 where it creates the most volatility for the trend (not necessarily at the point of volume sequence completion of the point 1 to 2 move) or

 

method 2- always placing it where the volume sequences completed for the point 1 to point 2 move

 

For example, I placed the LTL for the traverse at 10:55 today (method 1). I see Ehorn has it at 13:15 (method 2).

 

The choice of methods could possibly color one's view of whether something like a FTT (of the traverse) or VE (of the traverse LTL) is on the table in the NOW depending on the situation. I suppose either way, the faster trend FTT (FTT of tape post traverse point 3) with volume sequence completion shows us the change in market mode.

 

Thanks everyone for the help.

08122009es5min.thumb.jpg.ea423ee18e1dfb7b5b5ee7c55c0dc3e4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it depends on how you view the relationship... the price/volume relationship,

 

whether you think...

price drives volume,

or

volume drives price.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Volume leads Price. Always. And without exception.

 

Not sure what the right answer is to your question. The quote above should clear up the incorrect information from the previous post. How you know volume leads price? For that answer look at the gaussian illustration. As the volume increase Price will continue. Once the volume decreases Price will change. Look at my chart (8-12-09) at the 15:15 area. We know that if V increase, Price will continue upward not the other way around.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm curious what best bounds a trend:

 

Interesting question. For me, an FTT of something becomes a PTn of something else. So logically (for me) this FTT is the place to drop the TL. Geometry does not always allow one to place a TL where a sequence completes, but IMO it seems more important that one does things consistently to be able to provide him/her the view required to see continuation/change.

Edited by ehorn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Spydertrader

 

Would you help a person who is learning and trying, but can not read the Market correctly yet?

 

The Market of today tells me that I had wrong annotation yesterday. The questions are as the following:

 

a) Why is the dotted Pink trendline not ES 5 min Traverse? Doesn't the 13:25 (open of ) bar finish the down sequence?

 

b) Since the Market of today proved I was wrong, I Guess there's something I missed to take consideration.

Are there any formation or price bars which were saying down sequence was not finished when the 13:25 (open of) bar presented with increasing volume?

TIA

5aa70f135fb48_Aug11Tape.thumb.gif.0322c306a7755dd705a4409cee976cd6.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In one of the earlier post Spyder mentions ten tapes. Not to throw people off but for the benefit of clarification, the ten examples are chart formations. Where tapes are used on top of the formations to show support and resistance. In addition, these formations occur in all fractals not just the tape aka fastest fractal. Spyder please correct me if this is not right.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Romanus,

I'm working on drawing guassians and found something on your chart that continues to trip me up---beginnig at 15:50 there are 3 consecutive IRV bars that cross a RTL---yet you draw the guassian as DRV...

The gaussians match trendlines. The IT thread on ET, especially the 2nd half of '08, contains numerous discussions on the subject.

 

...

What is there to support this view other than the perceived point within the current cycle (B2R2B)

The price moving from Point 2 to Point 3 of the 5 min ES level traverse.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Would you help a person who is learning and trying, but can not read the Market correctly yet?

 

I'm not really sure I understand your question.

 

I agree the 13:30 [close of] ES Bar ends the down sequence. You appear to have that correct. However, I don't see how the market "proved you wrong" today. Perhaps, you've viewed today (08-12-2009) incorrectly, rather than, viewing yesterday (08-11-2009) incorrectly.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm not really sure I understand your question.

 

I agree the 13:30 [close of] ES Bar ends the down sequence. You appear to have that correct. However, I don't see how the market "proved you wrong" today. Perhaps, you've viewed today (08-12-2009) incorrectly, rather than, viewing yesterday (08-11-2009) incorrectly.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Hi Spydertrader

 

Thank you for your comments. Is the attached chart showing the correct view from 08/11/2009 to 08/12/2009 ? Sorry for not providing the gausssians, because I did the chart in a morning hurry. TIA

5aa70f139eae4_Aug11Aug12.thumb.gif.5b4991bca08594c4c2891f7bddc60d68.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some days the show appears to be run by a guy named Klaus, while on others it's a drug-crazed hippee or Mr. Magoo. Same show. Different pacing.

 

Thank you. Thank you very much. Thank you.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Is the attached chart showing the correct view from 08/11/2009 to 08/12/2009?

 

If you have the correct view on your chart, what must the market create next? If you do not have the correct view on your chart, what do you expect to see from the market?

 

Sorry for not providing the gausssians, because I did the chart in a morning hurry.

 

The Gaussians provide the answers to all of your questions. Annotating a chart without Gaussians is like trying to watch a movie with your eyes closed. Sure you might be able to listen in and follow along for a while, but you'll definitiely lose the plot before you run out of popcorn.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Are there exercises to train the mind/eye how to spot the correct gaussian formations? As I look for continuation and change, the volume formations are the most difficult to interpret. For example, in a B2R trend, you see volume bars increasing real time. Then as the next bar develops, intra bar, you see it decreasing in volume, and price. At this point I am thinking change. Then the next bar, increases in B, and continues thus faking you out with the previous bar. I see this happen 1-2 bar sequences, which makes it extremely difficult to recognize when the second half of the gaussian formation is beginning to form. Is it just me having this issue or is this holding back several others as well?

 

- Monkman

5aa70f13c7ca3_8-13-2009es.thumb.jpg.4a2140ac2dc023f865ba9256c1c45264.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A trader can easily learn to differentiate the various tapes, traverses and channels formed by the market, as well as the sequences of Price and Volume which landmark these specific events, by starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself. Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

 

This Channel Drill requires the trader to construct their charts in such a fashion that one knows with 100% certainty the end has arrived for both entities described above. Whatever solution works for one part of a chart, must work for all charts in the time frames mentioned.

 

Two possible outcomes exist.

 

1. A trader accurately (and more importantly consistantly) annotates a chart and arrives at the correct outcome.

 

2. A trader uses "what works for them" and does not arrive at the correct outcome.

 

In either case, the market has provided everything required to arrive at the correct endpoint in both scenarios.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself. Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

 

- Spydertrader

 

 

 

I have highlighted the areas you are referring to.

Light orange is the first time frame 7-13-2009and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009.

 

Second time frame is highlighted in pink 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009 until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009

 

 

In this time frame I do not see what you are referring to at all.

5aa70f13d0d51_consolidated5minutees.thumb.jpg.3a952fac45259e6387dccd5bc899622d.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A trader can easily learn to differentiate the various tapes, traverses and channels formed by the market, as well as the sequences of Price and Volume which landmark these specific events, by starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself. Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

 

This Channel Drill requires the trader to construct their charts in such a fashion that one knows with 100% certainty the end has arrived for both entities described above. Whatever solution works for one part of a chart, must work for all charts in the time frames mentioned.

 

Two possible outcomes exist.

 

1. A trader accurately (and more importantly consistantly) annotates a chart and arrives at the correct outcome.

 

2. A trader uses "what works for them" and does not arrive at the correct outcome.

 

In either case, the market has provided everything required to arrive at the correct endpoint in both scenarios.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

A quick look shows me that the 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009 -> 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 period consists of a down channel, an up channel and a down channel, where each channel has 3 traverses. (I still had my annotations...)

 

--

innersky

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Here's my effort for the day. I tried out placing point 2 of the traverse at the point of volume sequence completion (12:00 today) as discussed yesterday. It does aid in "seeing" the volume sequences when looking at the price pane.

 

I also made a concerted effort to annotate trendlines in a consistent way (line thickness, color scheme) in order to better see the markets sequences. I hope you don't mind Ehorn, but I borrowed your coloring convention.

 

Also, my placement for point 1 of the down traverse is of note (15:40 bar yesterday). I arrived at it by removing the overnight gap mentally.

If I didn't remove the gap, the 13:05 bar today would have gone above yesterdays 15:40 bar, making a point 3 down traverse geometrically impossible. This would have definitely caused me to know that my MADA was wrong and made me go fix my annotations. With the mental shift of bars, the down traverse remained in play and I continued on from point 3 into the traverse.

 

I'm curious to see other people's annotations today to see how the gap was dealt with.

08132009es5min.thumb.jpg.a13747e228f5a76003c9dde5f066d5f7.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A trader can easily learn to differentiate the various tapes, traverses and channels formed by the market, as well as the sequences of Price and Volume which landmark these specific events, by starting with a known entity - one which exhibits certainty as defined by the market itself. Beginning with 10:10 AM on 7-13-2009, and continuing through until 15:30 PM on 8-5-2009 the market has provided just such an event. In addition, beginning with the very same 15:30 PM Bar on 8-5-2009, move forward until 13:30 PM on 8-11-2009 in order to see the exact same event, but in the opposite direction.

 

This Channel Drill requires the trader to construct their charts in such a fashion that one knows with 100% certainty the end has arrived for both entities described above. Whatever solution works for one part of a chart, must work for all charts in the time frames mentioned.

 

Two possible outcomes exist.

 

1. A trader accurately (and more importantly consistantly) annotates a chart and arrives at the correct outcome.

 

2. A trader uses "what works for them" and does not arrive at the correct outcome.

 

In either case, the market has provided everything required to arrive at the correct endpoint in both scenarios.

 

HTH.

 

- Spydertrader

 

Hi Spydertrader,

 

For each day, do we have to slide the close of the last bar of a certain day to meet the open of the first bar of the following day in the time frame you mention? TIA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Spyder,

 

Would you be kind enough to post a fully annotated chart in the near future ?

Just one chart would be very generous, any day of your choice.

 

So very appreciated.

 

+1! I would sincerely suggest Spydertrader to post annotated charts on 08/11/2009 and 08/12/2009 to help traders and traders will be all over the world who are working on " learning to learn".

 

08/11/2009 is the day where sentiment changed; thus Down Channel ended and Up Channel began. High level of annotation technique is needed to handle Tapes, Traverses and Channels.

 

08/12/2009 is the day which challenges traders to find the correct bar to place point 2 of a Tape or a Traverse. The difficulty was proved by several traders who posted their annotated charts for 08/12/2009 with different outcome. TIA

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Agreed since some of the new traders usually lose money in start and some loses more while chasing their lost money and eventually ends up blaming to their brokers part.
    • The crypto market are also in phase of maturing like the forex and other trading assets so we can do much more accurate analysis than before since early days it was purely a luck if the investments in crypto bears results because most of the coins or tokens never come to fruition. Some early birds were also able to make profits on these tokens or coins. e,g., like turtle coin starts with 1 satoshi and go up to 7 sathoshis, quite good rewards. another token lmgx now hovering at 10 started from 1, 
    • How's about other crypto exchanges? Are all they banned in your country or only Binance?
    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.