Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

nakachalet

"HOLY GRAIL" is There or Isn't There?

Recommended Posts

for some dubious reasons,

 

many believe HOLY GRAIL exists in some shape or form or in some combination of setups but even more believe there is no such thing in trading; furthermore, the

majority of traders won't care much about such nonsensical utopia.

 

but from your personal past trading experiences, do you believe in the concept and existence of a holy grail?

 

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.

 

just from your personal past learning, searching and trading experiences and other

relevant personal experiences--

 

:haha: is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?

 

with full realization that most trading forums are heavily saturated, supported, sponsored and financed et al by trading educators and trading instituions completed with prop firms, just to mention a few obvious; therefore, it is never my intention to challenge, belittle, prove or disprove the benefits of each entity. i believe, each body exits, develops and progresses accoriding to demand and supplyin that particular market. so may each entity live long and profitable as well, so many wannabe traders would benefit from your generous services.

 

before we go on, may i assure you that this thread has nothing to sell, nothing to promote and nothing to persuade you to do or not to do anything about anything in trading or otherwise, alright.

 

everone is free to express your hindsight or foresight in trading concept and practices involving HOLY GRAIL VIABILITY AND EXISTENCE.

 

to be fair to everyone, i'll start out by saying that personally i do definitely believe in the existence of holy grail in various shape, form and/or combination of such.

 

my personal belief is based primarily on the obvious evidences of the current existence of a multitude of successful traders in various markets and disciplines.

 

we might have seen their daily real money trading accounts as they are shown on screen for every subscribers to eschew and salivate.... lol

 

the buring question is:

 

what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables

them to be so consistently profitable?

 

ANY HELP HERE, PLS? :crap:

 

thx much for your time and indulgence everyone.

 

hopefully, this thread will stimulate everyone to think harder and search more toward

discovering our own HOLY GRAIL, so each might be able to trade more profitably and more consistently with sustainability as well.

 

profitable trading to everyone. :pc guru:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

 

Well yes, there is a "holy grail" as you've defined it (although, I think you meant to say "consistent net profit").

 

The problem occurs with the term "holy grail". If you are questioning if there is a system that works across all time frames, for all people, with no tactical adjustment... then I would say no. If there is, then I would imagine that the profits would be marginal, although positive, but I doubt that to be a worthwhile venture.

 

HFT's and Arbitrage seems to be the closest thing to the holy grail. Let me say here that I know little of either, but it seems (to me) that even those two examples would be in a constant flux to adapt to market conditions.

 

For a retail trader, neither of the above examples are feasible. You are left with ten thousand (a number I pulled out-a-my-ass) different ways to consistently make profits. The problem exists with the search for the personal "holy grail" is in finding the combination of things (and in dealing with yourself) that will yield consistent profits. I think you'll find that it's a daunting task to first find, and then stay in the "sweet spot" that yields consistent profits.

 

It is possible though... takes some effort, and trial and error.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

plse do not dwell on philosophical aspects of holy grail, which will take forever and forever to even contemplate.

 

 

The traps you’re discussing in the parts of your post I didn’t re-quote (yet) are describing when a ‘beginning’ trader (or a trader at the 1st cusp) attempts to substitute unholy grail searching for holy grail searching...

A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...

... and ...

 

 

 

re: “forever and forever”

??? ?

You can choose to deal with your fisher king in an instant.

 

If you don't commit, then...

 

 

 

 

so...

 

 

 

Dwell.

 

 

 

 

if a holy grail can be defined as:

 

profitable trading theory, setup and/or indicator et al; that consistently produces

profitable net profit.

 

...

 

... is there or isn't there a sort of HOLY GRAIL in trading per definition above?

 

 

The ‘myth’ is a futile 'recapture lost opportunities attempt'. The sickological dynamics are really about the whens of your own inner ‘fisher king’, not the puer's whats of the grail...

Jump to markets - if you understand when something works, the what works are obvious...

 

and re

 

 

 

what is their secret or what is their HOLY GRAIL that enables

them to be so consistently profitable?

 

 

They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...

result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They didn’t match/align/adjust themselves to a method. Instead - Of the ‘10000’ methods jpenny mentioned, they found the method(s) that aligned with their true self...

result is not a utopia... it’s a state that is dissonance free enough for you to actually be functionally ‘consistent’, to get at the ‘underlying structures’ , that gives you the freedom to leverage your imagination

 

"The result is not a utopia"... as we all know... there is no utopia. Everything is a trade off.

 

I have lamented on this site before, the struggles that I've had with trying to change the way that I trade (successfully trade). I'm very good at what I do, but... but, I recognize that my methods could be better. The problem with making the changes that I can clearly see that need to be made is that I've wrapped a trading system around myself... it's a part of who I am, and who I was... it fits me. Everything in my way (of trading) is wrapped around something. Either it is to compensate for some perceived weakness, or it is to deal with the information that I take in through my eyes and can react to at my particular speed in processing. All this "stuff' is tied together, and it's very difficult to tease out one part of it, without affecting another... it's tightly wrapped.

 

I have an appointment that I need to keep this afternoon, so I'll stop here (I really don't know that I have more to add). There is no utopia. For myself, I've concluded that what I do is good enough, but utopia... well no, it's not.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Market dynamics are such that no one but no one can make money all the time under all conditions.

 

A trader who knows what he is doing has to be prepared for a bad day, month, and year.

 

Bad means you ended up losing money.

 

Knowing what you are doing takes some time and perpetual reinvention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
A beginning trader who never does any grail searching misses crucial exposure to ‘self’ and critical periods of development...

 

Back to this "holy grail" thing...

 

To offer some backfill and explain: When I took up trading, I was a man of 50 years. I had been successful in other ventures in my life, and I had the money and the time to take on "this trading thing". Good for me... so what? When first starting out; you don't know, what you don't know. Thus, the impetus to know everything.

 

I have a book cart full of trading books... 95% of which I wouldn't recommend even to people I don't like. The price for each of these books would range from $25 to $75. I have about 30. You come up with an aggregate price of $1500 for the mix. If there were an answer there... $1500 and the time to read it all would be dirt cheap.

 

I have spent countless hours, reading on the web, visiting sites such as TL. I've studied Gann, Fibonacci, Pitchforks, Bollinger, Guppy (and on). Now, I would not speak badly of any of it. If any of this stuff works for you, then good enough, and do understand that whatever tool you use, if you know how to use it, it is probably going to be effective.

 

The thing with books about trading, and the adjoining search for the "holy grail" that goes on with so many just starting out, is that it fosters (can foster) critical thinking skills, and in general, a fascination with the market and price action. This is good stuff, that you can carry with you, and even better is the sorting process that one must go through... again critical thinking.

 

So, I don't know... the search for the "holy grail"? In a round-about way probably a good thing for what it's worth, but you should (and hopefully will) come to the conclusion that you don't need the "holy grail" to make money in the markets.

 

Edit: I have a computer that is stored in a closet with all the work I did in the search for the "holy grail". I've got some stuff that would blow your hair back, and I thought about writing a book. End of the day... it would be just another book that I would toss in with the 95% of the books in my book cart. But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...

Edited by jpennybags

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a book cart full of trading books...

...

 

I have spent countless hours ...

 

Parsifal MUST search!

 

I have a book cart full of trading books...

...

 

I have spent countless hours ...

...

 

But... it "was" worth the time... enough said...

On a more practical level, that is the ‘elementary school’ of trading

When I look back on elementary school it seems like a waste of time... however, if nothing else, the three R’s were mastered.

...and even the most gifted among us do better with the three R’s under their belt.

 

A trader cannot differentiate, discriminate, ...and assimilate, utilize, enhance trading methods he or she has never been exposed to...

 

In my view, the ‘voice of trading’ actively discourages the search... with incessant promises that there is ‘nothing to be found’ ... certainly no ‘grail’ . That is a form of mind control that pretends depth doesn’t exist. Jon Rappoport calls it “the thinning of context” ...

 

"Speed hides need. Nothing is as easy as it looks, when it’s done quickly; nor as difficult as it feels, when it’s done slowly. If you can’t perform it slowly enough, you haven’t developed it well enough. Slow makes smooth; smooth makes fast. Let speed come from skill, not as a substitute for it." Scott Sonnon

 

Parsifal MUST search!

Parsifal comes to a natural and adaptive end to the search... he needed it ... then he outgrows it.

 

"dwell" bitches

:)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Hello! I'm afraid there is no such thing, personally I have been trading live for 15+ years now, lost a bunch and won a bunch, and I can say that I'm still learning, and I probably will never stop learning because the markets are so incredibly complex, if you ever meet someone saying he knows it all about trading, he is most definitely lying. but you are in luck. you don't have to know it all to be consistently profitable in the market, you just need to find that specific thing, what ever it will be, and that is the hard and time consuming part. Trading got to be the most complex and hardest profession you could ever learn, I believe there are no shortcuts, the professional traders, banks, hedge funds etc you are trying to extract money from, and "consistently" are people making millions of dollars in a year, I'm sorry but I don't know of any method or course where you can learn to beat those traders. seriously this question is ridiculous when you think about it, ( no offense) I probably asked the same question in a forum somewhere my self when I was starting out, somehow we don't ask our selves these things, it is like the greed are blinding us, if you want to be a trader with the ability to win consistently from the market, there is only hard study that matters, and I don't mean following something somebody else cocked up. that will only brainwash you with probably a messed up base knowledge, and this is bad because as you probably know it's hard to teach an old dog, that is because the unlearning is so hard, avoid other traders ideas, don't even read about it. it will affect your brain subconsciously to mess with your decisions in the future, things you read will probably will be 99% garbage anyway. except this post seriously ha ha , what I mean to say is, do your own thing, bring forth your own ideas, use your brain, test, trade, back it up with statistic and forward testing, this way you will eventually create your own trading strategy that suite you, and it will be something you can trade with confidence, the most hardest thing is to trade some others strategy because you don't have the confidence to trade it, you don't know why it supposedly will work or how, and you have no data to back it up, this will bring you a certain amount of doubt, and then your emotions will kick in and mess things up. on the other hand, if you trade your own stuff, you got the confidence because you know why things will work and you have the data to back it up. my tip is to begin with studying the behaviour of price it self, it is the only indicator you will ever need, price is reflecting all the traders emotions collectively, keep it as simple as you can, the more things and rules you add, the harder it will be to trade, if I would show you my strategy you would not believe me, it's that simple, (not going to though) and then you have your own emotions to deal with, that is a completely different subject but it goes hand in hand with trading. so not only do you need to master trading, you must master your own psychology as well. cheers
    • I tried searching the thread and couldn't find it, do you have a link by any chance?
    • This moment is dedicated to aligning with and supporting mits weirdly angled but incessant fight against normalizing pedophilia.  It would be nice if pedophiliperping were ‘normal’. And it could be ‘normal’ except for one big issue - it leaves permanent damage on the child’s psyche... just sayin’
    • worth reteeting see http://buchanan.org/blog/can-america-ever-come-together-again-129899
    • it don't matter to you but... https://www.naturalnews.com/2018-08-16-scott-mfa-tv-news-exposes-social-media-spying-smartphones.html
×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.