[zdo]

Originally Posted by steve46 »

The way I see it, most folk start with no clue and simply look to "buy their way in" with indicators, mentors and trade rooms....Sorry it doesn't work that way...you actually have to educate yourself (what a surprise) and do the homework necessary to build a business...

...

steve46,

This is precisely what I mean by "find your own way" zdo.

You’re sharing an edge and that’s great. But - if you were to ‘edgucate’ a thousand ‘traders’, I would bet only 1 or 2 of them stick precisely to that edge… ultimately the person and the edge must resonate. I’m going to keep telling traders to find their own edge that is true to their own nature.

“people quite whining” and “fitting themselves to the job at hand” is to be controlled by circumstances and that will not work to sustain one into the higher percentiles of traders – ever! Trading is performance work not production work… This could be posted over to the why 90% are either loosers or losers thread…

re backtesting – good points.
However, re “most … don't have nearly the education required” - in testing (especially for automation), experience is more important than education.

zdo

[steve46]

You know folks, the mistake is mine. I see now that you have it under control... Please continue as you were...

Best of luck

[Tams]

The 4-step hierarchical learning model that formed the basic building blocks of every skill

-- unconscious incompetence (the focus of some of the discussion in this thread)
-- conscious incompetence (where you'd all like those underskilled, unaware traders to be)
-- conscious comptence (the person has to 'work' at building and maintaining the competency)
-- unconscious competence (the competence just 'happens', the skill sets are ingrained, which allows the person to move on to higher order conscious incompetencies)

When you arrived at level 4, everything seems simple, orderly, and uncomplicated... and you wonder why people cannot see through the simple things the same way you do.

[dragon987]

Looking back to the time I started to find the edge in daytrading, I was similar optimistic as you are now. I could not image then how difficult it would be to find a system which would fit my psychological profile and my willing to accept risk. I tested what I could get my hands on, always when it came to real money I dumped it in the end because it did not suit me. What I mean by that is that I could not stand either the draw down (in fully automated systems) or the execution when I traded manually, meaning I made mistakes by waiting too long for confirmation etc. Finding out the own needs was one major step. I ended up with cci trading according to woodies principles and patterns. Now, after about 8 years of very intense research I use a modiefied system with following characteristics:
1. very early entries in trends
2. early stops if it goes against me
3. let profits run if the trend is established by using a trailing stop
That system gives me a win/loss ratio of about 2.5-3, a winning rate of better than 60% and is very robust, meaning that it works with futures, stocks etc. I am trading range bars, that is an decisive advantage because a lot of noise is filtered out. And yes, I back tested the system manually on as much data I could get backward. In my opinion the robustness comes from woodies patterns on the cci. It is amazing how exact they are. But you need definitely to practise.
I developed an indicator on the cci to help me spot the entries better, because that is the edge I have. I do not need the price bars, only looking st the cci. The rest is managing the trade when I am in the trade. By the way, my initial stop is no more than 3 points per contract, typically 2 points. A good strategy only comes with controlled risk. I only trade the first 90 minutes after the opening in the morning because of the movement. You can see that in the attached screenshot.
good luck

d

[zdo]

Originally Posted by steve46 »

You know folks, the mistake is mine. I see now that you have it under control... Please continue as you were...

If we folks gave you the impression that it is more "under control" than a very human series of temporary, tenuous 'under controls', the mistake is ours.
Don't let our 'rantics' dissuade you from making your valuable contributions.

... and now continuing 'as you were'...
Normal is terribly deterministic...
what is helpful at one stage ( mantras, etc. such as 'treat trading as a business' , or 'keep it simple' ) will need to be dropped to get to the top...
"... how to be aware in a situation that requires your unawareness, how to be conscious in a situation that happens only in unconsiousness..."

[Mean&trendy]

Originally Posted by zdo »

There is a largely ignored reason the ‘industry’ has hooked up with the holy grail myth.
Grail seekers are looking out there, to the other, whatever, for answers.
The myth is about looking in all the wrong places.
At any point, you can search ‘inside’ for the answers. “Find your own way.” That means realize that even if you were handed a highly profitable edge on a freakin silver platter, you would not make it work for you - unless by some small chance it was very compatible with your own nature. Kudos for being fed up with the BS. “Find your own way.”

Completely agree. There are many real holy grails out there.

The trouble is they are all tailor made by and for the individual trader.