Sierra Chart the Real Deal?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Well, as I mentioned that I would do in the earlier thread on platforms here:-

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/tools-trade/10520-brief-comparison-various-charting-trading-platforms.html

 

I had the chance to take a look at Sierra Chart over the weekend. This doesn't really qualify as a review, as I don't believe I have explored the platform fully enough. But it is a summary of what I have seen in it so far.

 

The great features I have found for me bearing in mind that the trial has all the features of the top package available:-

 

Market Profile/Volume profile- comprehensive looking. Seems to be able to do everything you could ask of it.

 

Numbers bars- this is basically what you'd see in Market Delta for the amount of volume traded at a price or the amount traded at bid x ask and other options here too.

 

Delta studies - self explanatory.

 

As well as these, there are more features which are pretty great for anyone.

 

Custom indicator development based on C++ language, Depth of Market trading, Chart replay function, virtually any indicator or chart type you could ask for and this is just what I have come across so far.

 

The other things to mention are that I really like how quickly a large database seems to load. I'm not entirely sure how it handles tick data and how customisable this is in charting, but I think this is more of finding out rather than it not being able to do this. There are a few different data sources you can use. It's cheap. If you want mp/vp and numbers bars, it costs $45 per month and that's if you are paying a month at a time. That can reduce to as low as $35.10 if you pay 12 months at a time. They discount by 2% per additional month paid in advance up to 1 year. If you don't need mp/vp or numbers bars, it's $26-20.28 or for the absolute basic it's $19-14.82. At these prices there's gotta be a catch right? Well the one thing is tel/remote support is charged for at $0.58 per minute. I can't see that being a problem but if you chat say 2 hours a month because you are doing lots of advanced stuff, that'll add an extra $69.60 on your bill. Not bad I still say but on the other hand I can't say how good the support is. The other option is the free support forum. It seems pretty good for most issues.

 

So I would definitely consider subscribing for a couple of months longer myself. I wouldn't just plunge into changing platform but then that'd be the same with any software. I think it's got the lot as far as features go. It seems to be pretty robust from a programming aspect. It's very cheap compared with packages which offer similar functionality. I'm looking at this and thinking it's a buy. It's a real contender from what I've seen so far and so I'll look at it some more.

 

I'd be very interested to hear from anyone else who has tried, subcribes or used to subscribe and moved to an alternative platform so we can get a range of views.

[TheNegotiator 13]

The other thing that I forgot to mention is that it looks as though there are some instructions to install Sierra Chart with Wine in Ubuntu. I have been looking for something like this for a while and so may try it later this week. I think I saw that there's a version without CLR too. It doesn't use .NET in the main version except to for add-on features. I'm no programming guru, but I would think this will make it stabler so long as you don't require external features. Maybe Tams or someone knowledgable could comment on this!

Edited October 3, 2011 by TheNegotiator

[onnb 10]

first for disclosure - i am new to the forum. i am a novice trader and professional software developer. i develop custom projects for several platforms namely Ninja, SC, TOS and sometimes TS. as you will see below, i like SC the most, and my additions reflect that.

 

i have been using and developing with SC for around 3 years. just a few things to add to your summary:

 

1. regarding the support - they have a rock solid forum that answers questions same day. it is one of the reasons i have stayed with them. i have never had a question go unanswered and i have never required a phone call.

 

2. the documentation is thorough, is constantly updated and covers in depth the features and architecture of the product for traders and developers alike.

 

3. they release frequently so bug fixes and enhancement are regularly resolved

 

4. i don't use this myself, but they also have a Spreasheet feature built into the product. so all price and indicator data you have on the chart can also be written to a built in spreasheet (you can choose either the builit in one or excel) that is refreshed to sync with the chart. you can write your own indicator or trade logic into the excel that produces either visuals on the chart or trade orders. you can also use the excel to integrate with some other system or data source. for those that are not c++ developers, this comes as a "simple" alternative.

 

i have experience with Ninja, TOS and TS - from these I like SC the best.

 

my humble 2 cents.

 

Onn

[SIUYA 11]

I have used SC and loved it for all the reasons given.

BUT I would say that unless you wish to really learn the system and all that it offers then it can be frustrating and hard work as there is a lot there. Its not a simple system that is made for simple charting. Its a powerful and flexible system at a great price.

If you are not going to get into the most of this system then an easier system to grasp may be worthwhile.....if you can find it for the great price SC comes at.

Basically if you like the SC its unlikely you will switch to something else unless SC just does not offer something you need.

[TheNegotiator 13]

Thanks for your comments guys. I really think this is a bit of a gem the more I look at it. I hadn't even seen the Spreadsheet functionality. I remember when I had CQG IC a while ago and they charged extra for the api to do that- like $100 or something I seem to remember. Then again they are pretty pricey imo, however you use the platform!

[SpideySense 10]

I've been a Sierra Chart user since about version 35. I've also suggested it to a few other people.

 

Siuya's comment about complexity is a good one but need not be important to the adopter. There are two issues with SC: one is that it does a lot of things a little differently to other platforms so if you were on another platform do expect that for a few weeks you may get "huh ... thats weird .. I expected it to work that way" feelings but you will get past that before your first month is up. Second is that it has enormous potential complexity: but in this case its like when you first met word or excel or open office and there were so many things it could do. What you do is do what you need to do and then gradually add to it.

 

The support board is very good. I've never had a phone call to SC in 8 years; and they normally answer board questions by the evening you ask them. They can be a bit blunt at times and do appreciate if you keep questions short. But they do answer them and they will make a prerelease half a day later to resolve an issue.

 

There are 10+ times as many prereleases as releases. The software is modular and prereleases almost never have issues in areas other than the thing being changed at present but its probably still wise for newbies to stay with the release version rather than install every prerelease. Also, many don't even bother to stay up to date with releases.

 

It is a great program. Very flexible. Very capable. Cheap. And a lot of contributions from other users on the support board. You can develop your systems on it or you can use it to export data and information to something like R and use R to do system development and testing before handing your operational management back to SC.

[dlattl 10]

I have used SC for over a year now and agree with everyone's comments. I can code, ACSIL C++ version of SC, but it easier to test ideas with collection of studies that other Chart programs would not offer without heavy programming. For instance, I can overlay, do calculation (*/-+) on any exposed member of an indicator (called them subgraphs). For example you can subtract two averages and produce one line for clarity (when crosses zero - it is a crossover) in matter of seconds(for me- for you minutes:). Overlaying includes other time frame based charts (prices or indicators) and again without any programing.

It is a very robust and reliable and fast product, much more than NT as it does not rely on .Net (except for one component but they are looking for alternatives)

Support is great but can be very rude. The connectivity is good for most US based traders but lacks for the international traders. TT, Rithmic, OEC are covered. Still, I would love them to have CQG.

I hope this helps.

[khamore1 10]

I am a full time day trader for the last 3 years, my experience with charting companies and or new platforms is: if they don’t offer a free technical support over the phone I don’t need them.

[dlattl 10]

I am a full time day trader for the last 3 years, my experience with charting companies and or new platforms is: if they don’t offer a free technical support over the phone I don’t need them.

 

I do not know if one criteria is a good way of eliminating a product. I know that lots of bigger companies offer 'support' but it is hardly a solving-problems step. The support staff is not trained or knowledgeable enough to really address any real problems. They may advise on basic steps that's all. If that is what you after then it is a good way. With SierraCharts you 'talk' to the real developers through the support forum. Since they are very responsive it is probably a better arrangement than the phone support.

As far a 'free' is concermed I wonder how much you paid for the software or you are paying in commissions?

[TheNegotiator 13]

I can now report back that after installing the latest non-.net version of Sierra with the latest version of Wine on Ubuntu 11.10 with no problems at all, it looks like it's going to run really well. I haven't subscribed at all yet so I'll either have to ask them nicely for another free trial () or take out a subscription to test in realtime. I'll report back again when I can as I've been looking for a package I can run on linux for a while now and Sierra looks like it fits the bill!

Edited October 19, 2011 by TheNegotiator

[VTK 10]

I can now report back that after installing the latest non-.net version of Sierra with the latest version of Wine on Ubuntu 11.10 with no problems at all, it looks like it's going to run really well...

 

Same here.Have been running SC via Wine for last 6 months without any issue.Working same as it did in Win.

Although i am using it just for charting so can't tell how it does with trading from it.

 

In general i love SC!

You can't beat the price compared with TS or ES.

250$ for TS(and that's just for FX) or 26$ for SC(DXY and SPX incl.)...hmmm,really hard decision:D

I admit,i use just lines and different TFs for mine trading so i can't comment any advanced stuff.

Also their support board is excellent.I can't recall that it ever took them more than 24h to respond and most likely fix the issue if there is one.

I am pleased with SC FX data(which they get from FXCM),very rarely i get bad candle stamping or any other issue regarding data.

 

So let's see...

 

Reliable data feed

Great charting tool/options

Bargain price

Great support

...is what,for me at least,makes SC ..."the real deal".

 

Cheers!

[TheNegotiator 13]

Nice one VTK! One thing I was having problems with was removing Sierra and installing the new non-CLR version. I don't know if this is just a problem I am having with Wine, but it is an issue as they fixed some features which I use in the new version! Any ideas?

[VTK 10]

Can't help there mate as i didn't had such issue.

 

Have you checked out THIS LINK?

 

I did exactly as they ^^^ instructed and never had any problem whatsoever.

I am not sure that they even have different versions for win/linux:shrug:

 

 

EDIT

 

I see now..they say;"Non-.NET/CLR Version of Sierra Chart.This is the very latest version of Sierra Chart."

 

You could try to follow steps from the link above and keep .net version...?

Edited December 7, 2011 by VTK

[TheNegotiator 13]

The only different versions are standard and non-CLR (no .NET). The package is exactly the same for win and ubuntu, just in ubuntu you need to run it via Wine(Wine = WINdows Emulator). I had no problem installing and using it, but when they did a new release to fix some issues, it just wouldn't install. Plus, I couldn't work out how to uninstall my sierra version as it remains there on re-installation of Wine and doesn't appear when you run the "Wine uninstaller" command in the terminal. I think I might be able to search for the sierra installation folder and delete it, but not sure and hassle right now!

[TheNegotiator 13]

 

EDIT

 

I see now..they say;"Non-.NET/CLR Version of Sierra Chart.This is the very latest version of Sierra Chart."

 

You could try to follow steps from the link above and keep .net version...?

 

No it just comes up with some error.

[VTK 10]

I am out of ideas!

If you are subscribed just pop the question on support boards.

If not i could do it for you but you would have to write tha post and i could send i for you.

If so,PM me...

[SpideySense 10]

In windows, just installing the non-net over the older version works. In fact you can swap back and forth between them with fresh installs as the key file that changes is SierraChart.exe.

 

Not sure why it would be a problem with wine. If it was me I'd just uncompress the sc installer and take out the three files that change with most upgrades and substitute them in the wine directory (make sure that linux / wine doesn't have extra copies hidden around though).

[TheNegotiator 13]

Thanks Spidey. I'll have to look into it a bit further I think before knowing for certain.

[n00btrader 10]

I have used SC for over a year now and agree with everyone's comments. It is a very robust and reliable and fast product, much more than NT as it does not rely on .Net (except for one component but they are looking for alternatives) I hope this helps.

 

What makes Sierra so much better, and .NET less reliable, less robust, and slower? Would this apply to other platforms as well, like the new Multicharts .NET vs regular Multicharts?

[Colonel B 10]

I tried Sierra for about 60-90 days.

I am totally biased on this one to be honest. However my background isn't in computer programing or anything like the other posters. I took 1 class in school on c++ and I hated it.

 

What I use: Think Or Swim (TOS), Market Delta (MD), DTN for my feed, and Ninja Trader (NT).

 

And the reasons for this are simple.

#1 I can pick up the phone and call some one and ask them to log onto my comp and fix it.

#2 If I cant do that then there are regular classes that I can drop into on a daily basis, and ask a question to a live person and get an answer right on the spot.

#3 I can send my chart and indicator definitions by email and with in a matter of minutes you can be looking at the same thing I am.

 

I learned how to really trade on MD so maybe I have more time on it and didn't give Sierra a fair chance. But I don't see figuring out how to use Sierra as an adventure but more like torture.

 

It does have some great tools I hear. I think its an advanced piece of software and for the price it really cant be beat. The price is phenomenal and is its most strongest advantage it has over its comdpetideters. But ToS is free and you can drop into "swim lessons" and learn how to use the basic functions in a day.

 

So all in all I think if you can get past the steep learning curve then you will be in good shape. For me if I had some sort of drop in class to show me instead of "here you go, get to it" or a library of movies that answered simple questions then I think I would like it more.

 

All the posts so far have been positive and after rereading my own post it kind of sounds negative. I don't think Sierra lacks in any of the indicators or charts or is inferior in anyway it that regard to what I use. My only issue (and it might be personal preference) is that it only has a forum and user guide to get answers. I prefer a class or a phone call or the ability to import chart definitions. If anything that I have mentioned sounds like you then I would avoid Sierra and go with the more expensive stuff.

 

DO NOT just go with it just because of the cost!!! If you do you may find yourself spending more time frustrated then actually getting work done. Thats what I did.

However if trying to figure out a piece of software that is the equivalent to sending a shuttle into space with what I consider no support then you will have a ball.

[SpideySense 10]

What makes Sierra so much better, and .NET less reliable, less robust, and slower? Would this apply to other platforms as well, like the new Multicharts .NET vs regular Multicharts?

 

On the general subject: if you just want to trade and use standard indicators then Sierra will probably offer a price performance package that can't be beat.

 

If you want to just program it using the spreadsheet or you want to use ACSIL and already know how C fits together (you don't really use C++ features or C# or anything fancy) then it can't be beat. If you're going to program it then you really don't want to be a newbie - but if its just spreadsheet style manipulations of indicators it should be pretty easy.

 

But if you already know and like something else; or if you want to do complex programming and don't get/like C++ style programming; then you might well not like it. Then one of the others like multicharts might be better for you.

 

On the .net question. NET is a complex framework to let programmers in microsoft environments do stuff (pre windows 8 ... the world is moving towards html5 and less proprietary approaches now). But it adds complexity. So it is slower than just coding it in C++ (which is what Sierra Chart is built on). So the Sierra people are trying to move away from .NET which creates a leaner faster package that will likely be easier to use in non-ms environments as well.

[n00btrader 10]

On the .net question. NET is a complex framework to let programmers in microsoft environments do stuff (pre windows 8 ... the world is moving towards html5 and less proprietary approaches now). But it adds complexity. So it is slower than just coding it in C++ (which is what Sierra Chart is built on). So the Sierra people are trying to move away from .NET which creates a leaner faster package that will likely be easier to use in non-ms environments as well.

 

Thanks for your response and great info. For my specific needs, I am a simple manual discretionary trader, and have no need for complex indicators, custom strategies, or any programming. If such a need ever did arise, I would likely have someone handle it for me, rather than spend time coding. So basically, I just want to trade and execute.

 

I am not concerned with price, but speed, stability, usability, ease of quick use in live trading.

Appreciate your suggestions for me.

 

Is .NET only slower to code in, or does it make the platform itself run, behave, and respond slower as well due to the complexity?

 

Why do some people mention issues of stability/robustness/reliability with .NET, would I experience this simply using a .NET based platform, or again would these issues surface only while programming?

 

Also, for testing out different platforms, I have installed the different versions of .NET required for each. Will each program be able to use its required version correctly with multiple versions installed?

[SpideySense 10]

Thanks for your response and great info. For my specific needs, I am a simple manual discretionary trader, and have no need for complex indicators, custom strategies, or any programming. If such a need ever did arise, I would likely have someone handle it for me, rather than spend time coding. So basically, I just want to trade and execute.

 

I am not concerned with price, but speed, stability, usability, ease of quick use in live trading.

Appreciate your suggestions for me.

 

Is .NET only slower to code in, or does it make the platform itself run, behave, and respond slower as well due to the complexity?

 

Why do some people mention issues of stability/robustness/reliability with .NET, would I experience this simply using a .NET based platform, or again would these issues surface only while programming?

 

Also, for testing out different platforms, I have installed the different versions of .NET required for each. Will each program be able to use its required version correctly with multiple versions installed?

 

 

It is a good platform for your use. They focus a lot of keeping it fast and low on resource utilization (great panic whenever anyone reports increased usage). I use the non-NET version of Sierra Chart because it is slightly faster and tighter. I chart trade but don't use the dom so you'd probably want to get the trial and see what you thought. You default to confirming a lot of order entry / mod stuff but can turn it off (I just click, drag and release on the chart to place my order from a customizable chart trading menu, customizable brackets are displayed and placed with your broker when the entry fills).

 

NET runs slower (because more needs to be done) and is potentially less stable simply because stability is at risk whenever you add an extra layer of complexity. To be honest though I've never heard complaints that the .net version is less stable - I think its all about speed and platform compatibility (quite a few people seem keen on linux/wine use of Sierra).

[n00btrader 10]

It is a good platform for your use. They focus a lot of keeping it fast and low on resource utilization (great panic whenever anyone reports increased usage). I use the non-NET version of Sierra Chart because it is slightly faster and tighter. I chart trade but don't use the dom so you'd probably want to get the trial and see what you thought. You default to confirming a lot of order entry / mod stuff but can turn it off (I just click, drag and release on the chart to place my order from a customizable chart trading menu, customizable brackets are displayed and placed with your broker when the entry fills).

 

NET runs slower (because more needs to be done) and is potentially less stable simply because stability is at risk whenever you add an extra layer of complexity. To be honest though I've never heard complaints that the .net version is less stable - I think its all about speed and platform compatibility (quite a few people seem keen on linux/wine use of Sierra).

 

Thanks again, great information. To clarify, I keep reading reports of NinjaTrader being less stable/reliable/fast BECAUSE it uses .NET. Now Multicharts also has a .NET version, so it's interesting to hear this perspective, that they are potentially less stable/fast.

 

I was curious of more on the SC .NET vs non .NET, found most of the answers here: Non .NET Version of Sierra Chart - Sierra Chart

 

I will try the non .NET/CLR version.

 

How do you like the chart trading in Sierra? What would you improve about it?

[n00btrader 10]

In windows, just installing the non-net over the older version works. In fact you can swap back and forth between them with fresh installs as the key file that changes is SierraChart.exe.

 

What if you installed them in different folders? Could you keep both installed and just run the one you wish to and it would work properly? Could they both work at the same time?