Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TheNegotiator

Information overload!!

Recommended Posts

This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Personally, I don't use any indicators like oscillators etc. but will look much more at volume based charts such as delta in a few different ways. I used to look at many, many different markets to try to get a leading market but I often found myself putting too much emphasis on moves in instruments other than the one I was trading. So now I look at only my primary market and when I am trading others clearly those too. I monitor my quoteboard for any big moves and perhaps take a look if any markets require my attention. I also have been closely following $ as often this is the driving force at the moment.

 

Listing the things I monitor actually makes me realise that I do monitor an awful lot of things to try to help my trade decisions. I actually am quite comfortable with keeping up with these right now and I never feel as though I am losing myself during busy periods.

 

So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I only monitor one market, the SP emini. For me personally, I just can't monitor multiple chart tickers. That's why I decided to trade the ES, and not stocks. I monitor 6 lower indicators, and price support and resistance on one screen. I have two computers, each with two screens. So I have 4 screens. One screen is nothing but a price chart and the trading ladder. I think it's good to have one chart with nothing but price on it, and keep the overall picture for the time frame you are trading in context.

 

So 98% of what I monitor is on one screen in front of me. I has taken a long time, years, to refine what I want to monitor and what I feel is valuable to monitor. All my indicators are custom programed by myself.

 

My other two screens have the NYSE UpVolume-Down Volume and the NYSE Advancers - Decliners. I glance at those to see if newer highs and lows have been made, or it there was an unusually big move. Sometimes volume will have a big move right before the price moves. For example, there could be a lot of down volume and price doesn't move that much, but price will catch up to the volume. It happens very quickly, so there is not a lot of warning or time to react, but every little piece of information can help.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So I would say I monitor 7 or 8 different markets and metrics at any one time with varying emphasis on each. Anyone think that is too much or too little? Do a count of your own and compare it with other guys setups.

 

Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OP - this isn't a problem only with real-time traders ... I have this same problem just trying to trade stocks over the medium term. there is just too much info out there and too many options ... trying to research one stock gets me looking at 10 other stocks and then off to the ETF's, etc, etc.

 

yes i think its worthwhile to sometimes turn OFF internet (blasphemy!) and do some work without all the distractions. it used to just be email but now i find myself turning it all off more and more.

 

MMS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Well there is a strong correlation between EUR&CHF, CAD&OIL, and AUD&GOLD. So it would be a good for confirmation.

 

I think that's where people come unstuck. Sure it can add a bit of confidence but is it worth all the extra layers of complexity? I don't think so. To execute consistently it is much easier if it things are simple. Something you can do pretty much with out any thought or analysis.

 

Funnily enough I am always on the look out for things to help confirm a level and how ever 'good' they are I usually end up either abandoning them for simplicities sake or if they are that good trading them on their own for a bit of variety. Indicators that attempt to measure sentiment shifts or changes in order flow e.g. cumulative delta or trade intensity all have great appeal to help with triggering and timing. But you know what? if any of those 'trigger' you can bet your bottom dollar price will trigger itself (like breaking the previous bar).

 

JohnW has a couple of good posts on th subject of keeping inputs to a minimum.

 

I also think that methods that require lots of inputs are more inclined to fail with changing market conditions. You can 'curve fit' in discretionary trading as well as system trading.

 

OP even if coping with all this information it would probably be beneficial to try and strip away everything that is not essential. It would be much easier to maintain peak performance. You also might find you can trade more markets and diversification is a great way to reduce risk.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's interesting isn't it though that we are always searching for additional indicators. I think that there are two reasons for this. Firstly, we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do. Searching and monitoring multiple things follows this. Secondly, what MMS said made me think of this. Our attention span for a market which is doing or perhaps more accurately 'achieving' very little, is about as much as it is for watching paint dry(unless you have some kind of odd hobby!). So there is this intellectual 'concentration gradient' where an immensely active mind needs to be 'filled' with something to figure out or focus on when not much is going on in the market. I am sure Rande would have something to say on this...

Edited by TheNegotiator

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I monitor 4 markets, with a moving average, pivots, and volume on each. One time frame, but i will usually switch back and forth to a larger time frame to spot s/r levels.

For me monitoring one market made me feel anxious as when i started i could not trade a full day because of work. So by watching different markets I can usually find an opportunity to trade in at least one in the short time I had to watch the market. I have found that the simpler the better, especially when watching more than one market. If your just watching one I think with a bunch of indicators would probably be okay, but not multiples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... we have a lack of acceptance of ambiguity and so require more 'certainty' for our trading/what the market IS going to do.

 

I agree. Even accepting it's simply about applying an edge many of us have this little voice in the deep recesses of our minds 'I wonder if we could improve that edge'. Intellect and ego are enemies of trading and looking at too much stuff lets them in.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I monitor one market, using supply/demand analysis, time-based pivots and the concept of wholesale/retail value (similar to Volume Profile).

 

Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Might I ask does the environment you work in help prevent you getting 'sidetracked' (for want of a better word)?

 

Well first, I negotiated a leave of absence from work....in exchange I agreed to train someone to take my place (period of 18 months)...I did this for two reasons...first my ambition is to do something similar to what Richard Dennis and William Eckhardt did in training the "Turtles"

Second, I wanted to avoid "burning bridges" with folks who were kind enough to take a chance on me a few years ago...So I did what I had to do in order to get a shot a what has been a dream of mine for a while now.

 

That said, I have the next 18 months in which to find, train, and "set free" (yes they are going to be asked to leave the class). After that, I have asked them to trade on their own (at least 6 months) and report the results. There are many differences between Dennis, Eckhardt and myself the least of which is that my system is distinct from "traditional" (Donchian) trend following.

 

Addressing your question...I have made my environment right for this project and yet I still get sidetracked...trying to educate, prepare a premarket analysis and then trade the open in front of a class is bit of a challenge...the solution to this problem is that I map out the trades in front of my class in the pre-market (5:45 to 6:15am PST). This approach is similar to that used by pro football coaches. who map out the first X number of plays in advance....if things go as planned they simply continue with that scheme....if not, they adapt to the changing environment..(and we do the same).

 

I hope this gets close to a usable answer.

 

Best Regards

Steve

Edited by steve46

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Steve,

Just curious , about how many trades do you average a day, watching just one market. I found that watching just one market was limiting the opportunity as sometimes the one market is not moving very much or not setting up, while one of the others is providing an opportunity. Has this been a problem for you? Or do you pretty much get some opportunities every day?

 

Hi

 

Depends on the local volatility..For example currently (Friday for example) we had one trade before calling it quits for the session. That trade was good for 7+ points.

Generally speaking I won't pull the trigger unless I see potential profit of at least 5 points.

Most of this month we have had one or two such trades per day.

I hope this helps

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.

 

You can't (focus continuously for hours)...so what we do is use our time based pivots and supply demand analysis to tell us when to focus and when we can "relax"...

 

We also take a brief break during the NYSE lunch hour and at specific times of the year, we exit the markets one hour prior to the end of RTH

 

Hope this helps

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
This question is clearly aimed at discretionary intraday short to ultra short term traders. How many different markets/indicators/metrics do you feel a trader can effectively monitor in real time to support trade decisions?

 

To me at least this is an interesting question as I have seen so many traders' screens lit up like an arcade with different indicators and others where there is so little that it barely seems worthwhile having the chart at all.

 

They say that traders have to have the mental agility of a fighter pilot to keep up with everything, but are all the instruments we use really necessary and do complicated screens actually tend to distract us more than anything else?

 

I remember the times I fell asleep in front of screen while watching the markets...If you are trading alone, it is very exhausting to follow too many instruments...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
    • there is no avoiding loses to be honest, its just how the market is. you win some and hopefully more, but u do lose some. 
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.