Timing Alternatives

[walterw 10]

Hello my dear fellow traders.... this will be a simple thread where I will start to discuss some of the simple timing methods I use and have in consideration...

 

Its no brainer and its nothing new at all... but may be very nice to give some light for newbies in terms of how to organize their "click" moment...

 

Timing for me is the click moment when you press you mouse button and send an order on your dom... trading soft etc...

 

but timing can also be more than that, its your straregy of "when" "where" on the entire price action picture you do enter a trade... thats an entire arena that will depend on the type of strategy you will trade...

 

In this little compendium, the idea actually is to give some hints on how to enter a trade based on x simple criteria... previous to that you actually need a setup... I am NOT discussing setups on this thread at all, just diferent type of timings that you can use "After" an x given setup...

 

so there we go.... I am not being 100% active as before, so be patient for answers in case of questions.... cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

Markets are permanently doing "pivots"... that famous "V" shape... so you can use those V`s to organize your timing moments...

 

For example lets deal with two scenarios where we can take two diferent types of timing methods :

 

1) The Pivot Swing Timing

 

 

in this case you enter a trade with the criteria of swinging an x pivot... some kind of a break trader...

 

2) The Pivot Inflection Timimg

 

 

 

In this case you are timing right on the V formation actually, you can use averages crossing themselfs or oscillators crossing levels like I use to do with cci... ( you may want to check the flip thread, lots of cci timing examples there)...

 

So those are two types of timimg methods you may use acording to your strategy needs... cheers Walter.

[Soultrader 12]

Thank you very much for starting this thread Walter. I am very interested in the various timing methods traders use to enter trades. $TICK is one of them for me but I also use the 10 period CCI on a 5min to time entries. Will look forward to reading about your techniques.

[Nick1984 10]

Wow lol long time since i posted up here! I'm not an afficionado on indicators so can you explain how an oscilator like the CCi differs from the MA crossovers? I understand the MA crossovers and used them like almost everyone when I first ever started trading but quickly found them to be lagging so dropped them except on my long term swing trades.

What are the advantages of using your timing with a CCi?

[Soultrader 12]

Wow lol long time since i posted up here! I'm not an afficionado on indicators so can you explain how an oscilator like the CCi differs from the MA crossovers? I understand the MA crossovers and used them like almost everyone when I first ever started trading but quickly found them to be lagging so dropped them except on my long term swing trades.

What are the advantages of using your timing with a CCi?

 

I use CCI hooks to wait for price retracement. If I see a long setup I am reading price bars and volume but will have a tendency to wait until the CCI is hooking upwards. (similar to how I use TICK) I use CCI only for this purpose.

[walterw 10]

Thank you very much for starting this thread Walter. I am very interested in the various timing methods traders use to enter trades. $TICK is one of them for me but I also use the 10 period CCI on a 5min to time entries. Will look forward to reading about your techniques.

 

I use CCI hooks to wait for price retracement. If I see a long setup I am reading price bars and volume but will have a tendency to wait until the CCI is hooking upwards. (similar to how I use TICK) I use CCI only for this purpose.

 

 

I asume James you are using the cci hook at the end or almost at the end of the bar... is that the case ?

 

 

cheers Walter.

[walterw 10]

Wow lol long time since i posted up here! I'm not an afficionado on indicators so can you explain how an oscilator like the CCi differs from the MA crossovers? I understand the MA crossovers and used them like almost everyone when I first ever started trading but quickly found them to be lagging so dropped them except on my long term swing trades.

What are the advantages of using your timing with a CCi?

 

NIck in terms of average crossovers, not any regular averages... I use a combo of hull with sma... you also have the vma aproach as well...

 

cci can be leading and readings can be very simple... but the final product is very similar...

 

Remember that if the setups concepts are not the right ones, even on good timing methods you will lose money... you first need good setups and then implement the timing method that suits your personality... cheers Walter.

[robb 10]

Thanks Walter and Soultrader...could either or both of you post a pic of an entry showing your timing. It would be good to see the CCI and $Tick...

 

So is the CCI (or $Tick) signalling the end of the retracement?

[brownsfan019 17]

Another idea Walter that kind of piggybacks on yours is to use simple support/resistance areas. For example - as price breaks a level, look for a reason to either go with the break or anticipate a false break.

 

Here's an example from today:

 

 

Here you can see an obvious box from the open till about 10:50am.

 

And then blast off on the 10:51 candle that breaks the zone like it wasn't there.

 

As the saying goes - old resistance becomes new support.

[brownsfan019 17]

In the example I posted above, if you waited for a test of the old resistance/new support level, you'd be up a nice little profit currently.

 

Entry: approx 1371

Current: 1378

 

Idea being using obvious support/resistance zones for reasons to look for trade - either on the break OR level being held and then use whatever you use to time your entries. Here, good old candlesticks gave us at least 3 opportunities to get long.

[walterw 10]

Nice nice charts as usual Brown ¡¡ on this case you whent right into posible setups... on my vocabulary the two type of setups you refer to, would be "coil break" and "flip"... the coil break was the break of that wonderfull rectangle (coil) and the flip would be the re-test of old S&R levels....

 

Thru candles we can have a complete new set of simple timing methods as also discussed on the corner... one is the close itself of a key candle on a key area setup... the other can be the swing high/low of a key candle on a key level setup... NOW... adding candles to price action readings as Brown gave us this powerfull examples can be one of the most simple and yet efective way to trade the markets....

 

the setups : coil breaks, false breaks, flips, continuations, extreme reversals are just a few to mention on the setup world that can be so well detected thru the powerfull candle aproach... thanks Brown for great inputs ¡¡ as always it is a pleasure to interact with you ¡¡ more insights will be strongly apreciated ... cheers Walter.

[Minetoo 10]

James:

Can you post a video of your CCI hook method?

[walterw 10]

OK let me add a very small detail I am actually using on my timing that can give you a very interesting edge... this is on the case of a "pivot swing" timing... remember I am a scalper myself so its viewed from a scalper point of view, but may also be tested on diferent time frames...

 

on this case you have the pivot swing type of timing being slightly modified... instead of taking the first break, you may want to take the trade on the second attempt... this way you can avoid false breaks and have more confidence on the entry...

 

on this chart you can see the concept :

 

 

and a real world example :

 

 

screen time is the best way to see this timing edge... normally you get a small bounce before doing the real break...

 

ok... thats my latest 2 cents, cheers Walter.

[brownsfan019 17]

And another from today Walter:

 

3 Min ES chart from 2-27-08 AM session

 

[Soultrader 12]

James:

Can you post a video of your CCI hook method?

 

Please see video I posted today in the premium section. It shows how I use CCI to time trades. Thanks.

 

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f10/es-trading-feb-27-2008-cci-3531.html

[brownsfan019 17]

Here's another one that formed today Walter:

 

 

 

The key for me here is to see OBVIOUS Support/Resistance and then consider a play until it fails. And it WILL fail sooner or later.

[Soultrader 12]

Here's another one that formed today Walter:

 

 

 

The key for me here is to see OBVIOUS Support/Resistance and then consider a play until it fails. And it WILL fail sooner or later.

 

Nice one Brownsfan. Excellent opportunities for rangebound trading after the initial move up. Notice the stopping volume at the 5min WRB also. Showing clear selling.

 

Note: Also the resistance is teasing the VAH and previous day high level. Good level to play.

[brownsfan019 17]

Nice one Brownsfan. Excellent opportunities for rangebound trading after the initial move up. Notice the stopping volume at the 5min WRB also. Showing clear selling.

 

Note: Also the resistance is teasing the VAH and previous day high level. Good level to play.

 

All sorts of things to consider James!

 

I did not know that VAH and PDH was there as well. The more, the merrier!

[walterw 10]

And another from today Walter:

 

3 Min ES chart from 2-27-08 AM session

 

 

good good good... so we have in this case a piercing pattern right on old resistance new support (flip)... in terms of "timing" would the swing of the high of the piercing pattern be the place to enter ( above the high of the green candle )... or other alternatives ? thanks Brown.

[brownsfan019 17]

good good good... so we have in this case a piercing pattern right on old resistance new support (flip)... in terms of "timing" would the swing of the high of the piercing pattern be the place to enter ( above the high of the green candle )... or other alternatives ? thanks Brown.

 

Walter - there's a few ways to enter:

 

1) Aggressive - have a resting order there to buy.

2) Buy @ close.

3) Buy above the high.

 

Just depends on how quick you want to get in, of course knowing that you can take some heat, esp. on resting orders.

[drsushi 10]

Brown,

 

I'm curious as to why you would not take a trade long on the test of the red candle with the long wick/shadow. What is it you are watching/looking for etc. If it were me, I would have thought I missed the trade after if broke 74.75 and tested it and went on up to 80.75, or I would have chased. Thanks

 

David

[brownsfan019 17]

Brown,

 

I'm curious as to why you would not take a trade long on the test of the red candle with the long wick/shadow. What is it you are watching/looking for etc. If it were me, I would have thought I missed the trade after if broke 74.75 and tested it and went on up to 80.75, or I would have chased. Thanks

 

David

 

I'm guessing you are referring to this one (screenshots help when trying to explain one candle when I've posted 2 different charts):

 

 

On that hammer, you could long there for sure.

 

And depending on how you enter, you may or may not have been filled. From that point forward, it's about trade management.

[walterw 10]

Walter - there's a few ways to enter:

 

1) Aggressive - have a resting order there to buy.

2) Buy @ close.

3) Buy above the high.

 

Just depends on how quick you want to get in, of course knowing that you can take some heat, esp. on resting orders.

 

 

yeap, I see and obviously that will give diferent RRR`s as well...

 

cant get more clear than that... thanks Brown.

[walterw 10]

well nice setup and timing thru candles and key S&R levels presented by Brownsfan... the Flip (S&R changing roles) is a very simple way to aproach the markets, in this case its interesting to see it on a 3 min scale...

 

I add this chart wich has one of Browns examples, notice on the same day how we got another clear flip on ES

 

 

 

for more concepts on flips this thread http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f34/the-flip-trade-support-and-resistance-1714.html it has some good info, now it is more a scalper type trading, on 3 min we can go for more longer trades...

 

another example :

 

 

maybe we should start a ES candle flip thread... cheers Walter.

[HAL9000 10]

maybe we should start a ES candle flip thread... cheers Walter.

 

Hi Walter,

 

well, I think that you don't know me yet, but I really like your work here (just to all others, that I don't mention here, here are a lot of very good people).

 

Currently, I've implemented some of your ideas. So far mostly the indicators (and the developers will be remembered, thanks a lot).

 

Anyway, while I was watching my current chart today (1000 tick, 2000 tick, it really doesn't matters), I saw a long, long flip for scalping to the short side at, lets say, 1368.00.

 

Yes, maybe you should start a new thread.

 

I would really appreciate it.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

P.S.: And I have to say thank you anyway.