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handle

Applying Joe Ross Trading Methods

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BlueHorseshoe,

 

Attached is the tick chart you wanted to see. I wait for the bar to close and then I place a limit order in my DOM. When placing this resting order at the open of the next bar, my order sits on the DOM until price hits my entry. I am then filled or not. If I am filled, then I am in the trade. Since I use a limit order instead of a market order, there is no slippage.

 

lfc3.jpg

 

As you can see, I was filled at 106.13 which was 7 seconds after the open of that 5 minute bar that you saw in the other chart. On this trade, I traded a 10 lot. The red arrows are my short contracts at 106.13. Looks like price went against me initially and then proceeded to hit my target at 106.03 for +10 ticks.

 

I hope that answers any questions you might have.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

 

hi handle,

 

I saw you always go for 10 ticks.......why is that?

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Patuca,

 

The heat in this kitchen is not hot. However, the purpose of this thread was to keep myself disciplined and focused as well as invite constructive discussion and comments. I have found another forum that suits my goals as this forum has not.

 

I thought that Trader's Laboratory was a good place for traders to complement each other, not ridicule each other. The market is hard enough on us traders, we don't need more negativity from each other.

 

Tony

True true true..but a little fun now and then? Come on...along with the sunshine theres got to be a little rain sometime...

 

I thought forums were to help each other....?..socialize...? Have a little fun? A yellow legal pad could have served your purpose of staying disciplined as the info you were sharing..well i didn't see much value to traders in it...bot at x price sold at x made 10 ticks...sorry but no other info could i really see except your pieces of chart with no expanation of why entry and exit or otherwise...

 

Come on over to beyond taylor thread where you have my permission insult me ...mock me...laugh at me ..as long as done in a decent way..as i attempt to apply taylors strategies live to the ES...it may be a real big failure but i don't care..it will be fun and perhaps we will all learn something. I do not know if taylor will work with the ES or not. I know it does with stocks. Anyway..happy trading..

Edited by Patuca

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True true true..but a little fun now and then? Come on...along with the sunshine theres got to be a little rain sometime...

 

I thought forums were to help each other....?..socialize...? Have a little fun? A yellow legal pad could have served your purpose of staying disciplined as the info you were sharing..well i didn't see much value to traders in it...bot at x price sold at x made 10 ticks...sorry but no other info could i really see except your pieces of chart with no expanation of why entry and exit or otherwise...

 

Come on over to beyond taylor thread where you have my permission insult me ...mock me...laugh at me ..as long as done in a decent way..as i attempt to apply taylors strategies live to the ES...it may be a real big failure but i don't care..it will be fun and perhaps we will all learn something. I do not know if taylor will work with the ES or not. I know it does with stocks. Anyway..happy trading..

 

great post Patuca.....a big like from me....I know nothing about Taylor......looking forward to see it

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handle,

 

I appreciate the way you have handled the off topic bulsht in your thread.

 

If by some small chance you do persist here, you might reconsider and more openly discuss some of the Ross methods / patterns themselves. ... possibly even contacting Joe for permission. The fact is - and quite contrary to what others have posted above - most of Ross's setups have either been contributed by him into the public domain or have been disclosed elsewhere - if no where else, in his books. I'm almost certain you could discuss the actual patterns / knowledge without dislosing any of the wisdom and understanding you garnered from your face to face work with him and without violating any NDA you agreed to with him.

 

all the best,

 

zdo

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Funny story...... bought and read 4 of Joe Ross' books. Sold them off through amazon, one of the people who bought one of his books from me was Conrad Black!!! Had to send it to him while he was in prison in Florida. Hope it works for him!!

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Yes! One of my favorite books by Joe Ross.

 

Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

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Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

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My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

 

Pauca,

 

What he taught me is that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Since there is no real edge to S/R, then don't use them. He teaches the Law of Charts and uses that as the basis for his trading methods.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

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My understanding is that Mr Ross does not believe in support and resistance...now than is a concept that chews up traditional and present day thinking...

 

Mr handle might clarify that?....

 

For example, look at CL today. Yesterday's high (resistance?) :confused: was 108.09. Market shot right through it 3:19 AM (PST) went to 108.58.

 

Then at 6:26 AM (PST) it blasted right through 108.09 (resistance turned support??) :confused: to 107.83.

 

At 6:35 AM (PST) 108.09 held and chopped until it blasted through 108.09 (resistance?) :confused: again at 6:46 AM (PST) and chopped until 8:06 AM (PST) where it shot up to 108.64.

 

So I'm not sure that there is an edge in support and resistance. Of course it's only one day, but you get the point. No edge. IMHO. But if you have a method that works for S/R, then you are the man!! :cool:

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Thanks handle. Would you say it has good entries for someone who has a good understanding of intraday support and resistance but who has trouble finding the right place and time to enter?

 

i am very good at finding intraday levels but when the price reaches them, i have no idea how to confirm that the level is holding or when to enter(without being too late)

 

For example: today when the ES pulled back to 1683.50 around 12noon EST, my analysis said that as long as 1683 holds, the trade should be good for a long. I was thinking it might pullback to 1683 but it didn't so I didn't know how to handle that situation.

 

Thanks again

 

Hello Rick,

 

Your analysis was good, the pullback to 83.50 was in an uptrend that showed no signs of weakness and so the pullback was a BUY.

However, you were hoping/assuming that the price would fall to your level of 83.00, but it didn't... this is not a clever thing to do, since you are giving away control of the trigger.

Remember that price controls direction, but you control the trigger ...this is important.

 

What you are lacking is a Traders Mind ...ie what am I going to do when price reaches a supply/demand zone

I say 'zone' rather than 'level' because when price reaches a supply/demand area things can get messy as it shakes out the weak Players and tries to trap other Players on the wrong side.

 

This is the essence of Trading.

What you need to contemplate, is entering after a return to upward momentum (in this example) or a retest of the low of the zone.( offering a better entry and a tighter stop)

Your stop size is critical.

Also, if you have any thoughts of win/loss ratios, I would place them gently to one side and retrain yourself to think in terms of hold/scratch ... in other words, once you are in the market your options then become ... will I continue (hold this trade) or will I scratch this entry and look for better one.

The next entry might be in a minute into the same price wave, in which case it may well yield an extra tic or three to cover your scratch trade, or you may miss this price wave and wait for the next one.

 

Add up your scratch trades each day and when the total is close to zero, or better still, it is positive, it means that your trading style of entry is exactly on the money.

 

Focusing on staying in a winning trade without being prematurely 'shaken out' is another subject.

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Hello Rick,

 

Your analysis was good, the pullback to 83.50 was in an uptrend that showed no signs of weakness and so the pullback was a BUY.

However, you were hoping/assuming that the price would fall to your level of 83.00, but it didn't... this is not a clever thing to do, since you are giving away control of the trigger.

Remember that price controls direction, but you control the trigger ...this is important.

 

What you are lacking is a Traders Mind ...ie what am I going to do when price reaches a supply/demand zone

I say 'zone' rather than 'level' because when price reaches a supply/demand area things can get messy as it shakes out the weak Players and tries to trap other Players on the wrong side.

 

This is the essence of Trading.

What you need to contemplate, is entering after a return to upward momentum (in this example) or a retest of the low of the zone.( offering a better entry and a tighter stop)

Your stop size is critical.

Also, if you have any thoughts of win/loss ratios, I would place them gently to one side and retrain yourself to think in terms of hold/scratch ... in other words, once you are in the market your options then become ... will I continue (hold this trade) or will I scratch this entry and look for better one.

The next entry might be in a minute into the same price wave, in which case it may well yield an extra tic or three to cover your scratch trade, or you may miss this price wave and wait for the next one.

 

Add up your scratch trades each day and when the total is close to zero, or better still, it is positive, it means that your trading style of entry is exactly on the money.

 

Focusing on staying in a winning trade without being prematurely 'shaken out' is another subject.

 

Thank you very much for the advice . It is very much appreciated!

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Pauca,

 

What he taught me is that sometimes they work and sometimes they don't work. Since there is no real edge to S/R, then don't use them. He teaches the Law of Charts and uses that as the basis for his trading methods.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Thank you.

 

Tony

well he is correct about that. Price doesn't see our horizontal lines or MA lines however institutions do and they make the price or get the ball rolling so to speak. Some manage to blast price right thru our lines. Others institutions manage to defend the levels. I think it better to weigh the pressures bullish/bearish that have been in play prior to a level being reached. It can give some indication if price will go thru the level or be rejected at the level.

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For example, look at CL today. Yesterday's high (resistance?) :confused: was 108.09. Market shot right through it 3:19 AM (PST) went to 108.58.

..........................................................

So I'm not sure that there is an edge in support and resistance. Of course it's only one day, but you get the point. No edge. IMHO. But if you have a method that works for S/R, then you are the man!! :cool:

 

Hi Handle

 

Try looking inside your 5 minute charts, rather just focusing on the daily lines

 

They are there

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Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

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Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

 

I never thought about that......I will definitely try :crap:

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Speaking of S/R. I've long long being a serious advocate of S/R zones. However, in an attempt to learn something new I read a book that challenged the usefulness of S/R. I was gobsmacked at the suggestion! But I persevered with his exercise, and that is; open a chart and hide your price bars, draw some lines at random on the chart and now make your price bars visible. My world just fell apart. I often saw the same interactions on these random lines as I did on my S/R lines. Do the exercise a few dozen times, change the symbols, change the timeframe - same result from my study.

 

:doh: WOWSERS! :doh: :doh: :doh: :crap:

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

PS: The book is: The Art & Science of Technical Analysis by Adam Grimes

 

Hello MK,

 

There are many instances of these mental experiments and they do make us think ... as indeed they should.... in many human endeavours, especially those that require one Learned Soul passing un(semi) quantifiable to a hungry Student, it works.

 

However Trading is as quantifiable as it gets ... just look at your daily Brokerage Statement.

It is even more exact than being the World's fastest man... even if you run the 100M in the fastest recorded time, there is always the suspicion of drugs hanging over the Runners head.

 

Trading is brutally honest.

 

And so when People tell us things like 'S&R doesn't really work" they are demonstrating the limits of their range of their thoughts or assumptions on the subject.

 

When I say to Handle 'the supply/demand zones exist intraday CL' ... I say this because I can see them.

I do not say to Handle that if he doesn't use them then he must be nuts, because that would be a presumption on my part... Handle is a Trader and answers only to himself.

S&D zones are the result of Longs and Shorts doing battle and the Winner controls the next Price Wave ... to me this is the very essence of market structure and it is the guts of trading.

The Zones will be as long as your bars are small ... it is your choice entirely how you choose to exhibit your price information.

Once we accept these concepts, then we can decide how we are going to build a mathematical edge that is applied consistently.

Without this edge we are dog tucker.

Without this edge, Retail Traders who are well funded will take longer to go broke than Traders with smaller balances.

However the Trader who grasps the structure of the market and who builds a mathematical edge will grow their account.

 

In short ...

It doesn't matter what you do, so long as you grow your account.

This means that any/all experiences, opinions, thoughts and assumptions should be embraced openly and put to the test mathematically before any decision is taken.

 

This is a brutally honest game ... and I mean that we have to be brutally honest with ourselves in every respect.

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Yup

And within the context of TL going into decline(?) probably what we need is quality rather than quantity.....

 

mitsubishi,

 

I agree with that. And a penalty for lack of quality...

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Hello MK,

 

There are many instances of these mental experiments and they do make us think ... as indeed they should.... in many human endeavours, especially those that require one Learned Soul passing un(semi) quantifiable to a hungry Student, it works.

 

However Trading is as quantifiable as it gets ... just look at your daily Brokerage Statement.

It is even more exact than being the World's fastest man... even if you run the 100M in the fastest recorded time, there is always the suspicion of drugs hanging over the Runners head.

 

Trading is brutally honest.

 

And so when People tell us things like 'S&R doesn't really work" they are demonstrating the limits of their range of their thoughts or assumptions on the subject.

 

When I say to Handle 'the supply/demand zones exist intraday CL' ... I say this because I can see them.

I do not say to Handle that if he doesn't use them then he must be nuts, because that would be a presumption on my part... Handle is a Trader and answers only to himself.

S&D zones are the result of Longs and Shorts doing battle and the Winner controls the next Price Wave ... to me this is the very essence of market structure and it is the guts of trading.

The Zones will be as long as your bars are small ... it is your choice entirely how you choose to exhibit your price information.

Once we accept these concepts, then we can decide how we are going to build a mathematical edge that is applied consistently.

Without this edge we are dog tucker.

Without this edge, Retail Traders who are well funded will take longer to go broke than Traders with smaller balances.

However the Trader who grasps the structure of the market and who builds a mathematical edge will grow their account.

 

In short ...

It doesn't matter what you do, so long as you grow your account.

This means that any/all experiences, opinions, thoughts and assumptions should be embraced openly and put to the test mathematically before any decision is taken.

 

This is a brutally honest game ... and I mean that we have to be brutally honest with ourselves in every respect.

 

Thank you.

 

One thing I would add is that they always "work" and they don't always "work" depending on your target and stop.

 

An infinite stop and a small target will surely "work" on a particular trade regardless of method. Just like a infinite target and small stop will never "work" on a particular trade. But in the long run, you will see your results in black and white.

 

P/L is the true judge in this game.

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    • USDJPY Remains Biased To The Downside   USDJPY faces further price weakness despite its price hesitation on Tuesday. On the upside, resistance comes in at 109.00 level. Above this level will turn attention to the 109.50 level. Further out, we expect a possible move towards the 110.00 level on a break of that area, A cut through here will open the door for more gain towards the 110.50. On the downside, support lies at the 108.00 level where a break will target the 107.50 level. Below that level will turn focus to the 107.00 level and then lower towards the 106.50 level. On the whole, USDJPY faces further downside threats.        
    • Sterling Advances Barely Hours To UK Elections As Latest Poll Predicts Conservatives Win In just two days from now, a major event that will set the trend for the currency market for the year 2020, the UK elections will be held. In the face of a Brexit extension, UK prime minister had pushed for an earlier election in the hopes of having a majority conservatives win in the parliament which will make the Brexit deal pass through easily. As the clock ticks, with barely less than 48 hours to this epochal event, the newest poll by Survation conducted for ITV’s good morning Britain show predicts a Boris Johnson win by 14 pts. ahead of Jeremy Corbyn‘s Labour party. The Brexit deal seemed to give the conservatives an edge as it accounted for 32% of the vote decision while NHS gave Labour party a slight edge. On the overall, a majority vote of 42% was predicted for the conservatives while Labour had 28%. Market Reaction as the Clock Ticks Optimism looms in the market as the prediction of a conservatives win will ease Britain’s exit from Europe by January 31 deadline. The EUR/GBP pair continued to fall till the early hours of today breaking the 0.8411 trend line targeting the 0.8149 resistance level. GBP/USD pair rebounded to consolidate briefly targeting 1.3381 resistance levels. Technical analysis within a 4-hour MACD shows that both pairs may likely touch down. CAD edged slightly higher advanced by USMCA news but yet to consolidate gains. The USD against a basket of five major currencies held steady awaiting FOMC’s minutes due out tomorrow. Against a basket of currencies, NZD’s dominance is the highest. Sterling also gained momentum firmed up by approaching UK elections. The safe-haven, the Japanese yen, and Swiss franc remain pressured as major events that will shape the market for 2020 are been anticipated. On the Asia side, significant market activity wasn’t recorded as most currency pairs held steady within a day’s range. In the Asian stock market, not so much activity was recorded being weakened by recently released Chinese PMI numbers. Most of the indexes closed a little lower while US stocks rose swiftly after Friday’s release of US non-farm payroll reports. The outcome of the December 15 deadline set by the US for the signing of a preliminary trade pact will determine the week’s direction and even further into the year 2020. Also due out later in the week is UK GDP figures and ZEW released out of Germany.
    • Date : 11th December 2019. FOMC Preview – 11th December 2019. FOMC Preview No policy changes or surprises are expected with today’s announcement (19:00 GMT) and Chair Powell’s press conference 30 minutes later. It will be interesting to see if, as expected, the voting is unanimous this time round. The FOMC members have expressed significant differences of opinion during 2019 as three rate cuts were implemented.  The apparent paradox of low unemployment and low inflation, the new “norm”. The two-digit unemployment rate (U-3) in November edged down to 3.53% from 3.56% in October, and a 3.52% cycle-low in September, all below the 3.58% prior cycle-low in April and a 4.00% rate at the beginning of the year. Current readings remain much lower than the 4.2% long-run unemployment rate projection noted in the September SEP, it is expected that this estimate will be trimmed today. Headline CPI rose 0.4% in October while the core index rose by 0.2%, for respective y/y gains of 1.8% and 2.3%, versus September figures of 1.7% and 2.4%. Today the November headline is expected to fall again to 0.2% and the core remains flat at 0.2% too. The Fed’s favoured inflation gauge, the PCE chain price measure, rose 1.3% y/y in October and expectations are for an uptick to 1.4% in November. The core PCE chain price measure rose 1.6% y/y in November, versus 1.7% in September, and expectations are for the pace to hold at 1.6% in November. The FOMC’s latest median estimates for 2019 inflation are 1.5% for the headline and 1.8% for the core. Hence, the focus will be on the Fed’s new quarterly forecasts, with expectations raised and likely to be mostly bullish results with a bump up in the median growth projection and a drop in the median dot to reflect a steady stance through 2020. However, the individual dots are likely to show both, forecasts for cuts and hikes. Chair Powell is expected to reiterate the US economy and policy are in a “good place,” (a phrase he has used a number of times lately) and could sound a little more upbeat after the strong jobs report. But, he will continue to warn of downside risks. The FOMC isn’t likely to announce any new measures on reserve management operations (QE?) or a repo facility. All steady into 2020 and beyond. USDIndex remains biased to the down side but has support around 97.40 and the 200-day moving average. A breach of this key support zone brings in 97.00 and the October low of 96.85. A break over 97.80 (the confluence of the 20 and 50-day moving averages) and 98.00 would be required before a re-test of the recent high at 98.50 could be considered. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HotForex Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Stuart Cowell Head Market Analyst HotForex Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
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