Confidence and Form

[TheNegotiator 13]

Before I start I'd just note that I didn't put this in the "Trading Psychology" section for good reason. The issue is psychological but I wanted this to be a rather more practical discussion.

 

The issue is confidence. This is predominately an issue with newer traders and those yet to be consistent however, it can affect us all at any given stage. Building up confidence in your ability to trade the markets and your plan well is crucial to growing as a trader. At some point, you need to flip from the "can I make money state" to "how much money can I make state" (or at least how many ticks, pips or whatever).

 

The most important part of confidence is building your account up by using a consistent strategy or set of strategies. By doing so, over time you are building a platform upon which you can develop as a trader and push on. A confident trader keeps trading even if they take a knock or two along the way. A confident trader is able to accept their losses as part of the game and stick to their defined risk limits. But something else happens. Very much like a sportsperson or a sports team who have gone on a long winning run, a confident trader is able to dig out a "victory" when things don't initially go to plan. A confident trader is more likely to be a determined trader.

 

Part of being able to build confidence and a run as a daytrader is having enough trade opportunities in one or multiple markets to create some momentum. Part of it may be going for a few singles (or base hits for US members ) rather than always looking to hit it out of the ground. But overall it's that will to be in the black at the end of each and every day.

 

What else do you think helps a trader turn an idea and a plan into a run of good results?

[zdo 20]

N,

You used the word Form in your title

Then you said nothing more about it. I don't understand.

What happened?

 

zdo

 

 

 

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[TheNegotiator 13]

N,

You used the word Form in your title

Then you said nothing more about it. I don't understand.

What happened?

 

You don't?

[TheNegotiator 13]

Perhaps zdo you don't understand what I mean by "form"?

[SIUYA 11]

What else do you think helps a trader turn an idea and a plan into a run of good results?

 

recognising overconfidence

[TheNegotiator 13]

recognising overconfidence

 

Absolutely. But what's the best way? During trading? Win:loss ratio? Journalling during and after the session? Or just having a bunch of other traders bring you back down to earth?

[zdo 20]

Before I start I'd just note that I didn't put this in the "Trading Psychology" section for good reason. The issue is psychological but I wanted this to be a rather more practical discussion.

...

 

 

Thanks. tN I also have issues building with the limitations of the psychology word in ‘Trading Psychology’ forums. Please consider this as my 2nd ( or 3rd or ...) request to rename the whole sub–forum to Trader Self Development (or something like that)

 

 

 

 

 

tN, You rarely put energy into my questions to your new threads...I take it you prefer I butt out … so I’ll just slap down some sht and get out…hope it isn’t too ‘psychological’ for you.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

...At some point, you need to flip from the "can I make money state" to "how much money can I make state" ? ...

...

...What else do you think helps a trader turn an idea and a plan into a run of good results?

Yes you need to “flip”, but be warned! - A contrived flip to “how much…state” is false , phony, artificial ...and it's unsustainable.

Authentic confidence emerges naturally and only from repeating actions and observing and assimilating successes. Practically - utilize any ‘planned’, arranged confidence you discover yourself doing (or even being tempted to even think about generating) as a tip to self that your whole inner approach is fktup and setup for failure .

 

 

Confidence – forgetaboutit! Confidence is of Zero! NONE! Nada! benefit to beginning and struggling traders. So if you have no confidence and it is disastrous to conjure confidence up, what do you apply instead????????

When you have no confidence to rely on – rely on courage.

To start, to begin an endeavor before you have any authentic emergent confidence

you use courage to start and to persevere when a venture doesn't supply obvious and immediate success

[TheNegotiator 13]

Yes you need to “flip”, but be warned! - A contrived flip to “how much…state” is false , phony, artificial ...and it's unsustainable.

Authentic confidence emerges naturally and only from repeating actions and observing and assimilating successes. Practically - utilize any ‘planned’, arranged confidence you discover yourself doing (or even being tempted to even think about generating) as a tip to self that your whole inner approach is fktup and setup for failure .

 

Perhaps down to my 'poor' wording I think you've misinterpreted what I was saying. What I hoped would be clear from the rest of what I had to say is that you need to progressively shift from one way of being to another and to do so it's important to increase your level of confidence over time. More confidence (not over-confidence:)) and sustained performance (or form) can help you to make this shift (not flip - think of it like a sliding scale rather than a digital on/off).

 

Confidence – forgetaboutit! Confidence is of Zero! NONE! Nada! benefit to beginning and struggling traders. So if you have no confidence and it is disastrous to conjure confidence up, what do you apply instead????????

When you have no confidence to rely on – rely on courage.

To start, to begin an endeavor before you have any authentic emergent confidence

you use courage to start and to persevere when a venture doesn't supply obvious and immediate success

 

Imho you are wrong. Confidence can never be zero. It can be exceedingly low, but then why even look at a "setup" twice even when it is? Maybe it is so low that it takes courage to execute and therefore build up some initial confidence. Again, I'm not suggesting for a minute that you "conjure" up confidence using some psychological trick or something. I'm saying you should nurture and support it.

[SIUYA 11]

i am with Zdo - often all the back testing in the world may give you confidence to trade, but you still need courage to actually do it.

Then you probably through trading build that confidence.

 

the whole recognising overconfidence - well, thats a matter of self development really

For some its different.

For me, its when i think i can pluck the eyes out of the market and capture every little tick - sometimes it works, but i also recognise that once i start doing it, it will bite me on the butt. Thats my warning sign.

A mate of mine used to stand up, pump both fists in the air usually with an expletive, when he was winning big.....after a while we developed a rule - when he did that, we had to convince him to exit his position - it usually worked.

 

when you think about it, a lot of the problems might arise from false confidence more than over or under.

that idea that you can outwit the market, you know best, you have control. It usually results in over trading, revenge trading blah blah......and why ---- probably because you have not done enough work either on plan, or self development to be truely confident that things are right to go.

If you then dont have the courage to pull the trigger at some stage, you will probably keep planning and not doing.

 

Random thought - maybe condfidence in trading is irrelevant - maybe all good trading gves you is confidence in other parts of your life. or v v. (They are finding happy people are more likely to be richer rather than money making you happy)

[zdo 20]

Perhaps down to my 'poor' wording I think you've misinterpreted what I was saying. What I hoped would be clear from the rest of what I had to say is that you need to progressively shift from one way of being to another and to do so it's important to increase your level of confidence over time. More confidence (not over-confidence:)) and sustained performance (or form) can help you to make this shift (not flip - think of it like a sliding scale rather than a digital on/off).

 

 

 

Imho you are wrong. Confidence can never be zero. It can be exceedingly low, but then why even look at a "setup" twice even when it is? Maybe it is so low that it takes courage to execute and therefore build up some initial confidence. Again, I'm not suggesting for a minute that you "conjure" up confidence using some psychological trick or something. I'm saying you should nurture and support it.

 

Yea yea when confidence is zero you have already committed suicide. Our strengths are generally stronger than we think…Yada yada.

 

But I didn’t say that. I said in the beginning, referring to, accessing, "progressively shift"ing to, nurturing, (whatever) confidence is a waste of time and energy – practically. I’m saying stay focused on your courage in the beginning. Take no measures of or check your confidence levels. It will emerge on it’s own, in its own time and way.

 

... “you should nurture and support it” is falling for a “psychological trick (or something)”

…you faked us out … thought you wanted to get away from ‘psychological’

 

Furthermore here’s some more non consensus / non psychological bulsht.

“sustained performance” implies that consistency is the path to consistency. It ain’t. Failure and learning how to recover faster and faster and faster is the path to consistency. Not very confidence inspiring I know - but at least it’s not fkn ‘psychological’ly sound

[TheNegotiator 13]

i am with Zdo - often all the back testing in the world may give you confidence to trade, but you still need courage to actually do it.

Then you probably through trading build that confidence.

 

the whole recognising overconfidence - well, thats a matter of self development really

For some its different.

For me, its when i think i can pluck the eyes out of the market and capture every little tick - sometimes it works, but i also recognise that once i start doing it, it will bite me on the butt. Thats my warning sign.

A mate of mine used to stand up, pump both fists in the air usually with an expletive, when he was winning big.....after a while we developed a rule - when he did that, we had to convince him to exit his position - it usually worked.

 

when you think about it, a lot of the problems might arise from false confidence more than over or under.

that idea that you can outwit the market, you know best, you have control. It usually results in over trading, revenge trading blah blah......and why ---- probably because you have not done enough work either on plan, or self development to be truely confident that things are right to go.

If you then dont have the courage to pull the trigger at some stage, you will probably keep planning and not doing.

 

Random thought - maybe condfidence in trading is irrelevant - maybe all good trading gves you is confidence in other parts of your life. or v v. (They are finding happy people are more likely to be richer rather than money making you happy)

 

I'm not sure that confidence in trading is irrelevant, but it certainly leads to confidence in other areas of your life when you do things well, or get positive results. That's definitely one potential problem that you mentioned - false confidence. The idea that a positive outcome and what you did or didn't do are automatically correlated can lead to potential problems.

[Catdaddy 10]

I've never seen any superstar in any field of competition lack confidence. It's that intangible that allows some players to take the 3 (basketball) at the buzzer and have the higher probability of hitting it. The skill to hit the 3 needs to be there for sure. But, we all have seen people who look good in practice and crumble under pressure. What increases the odds of hitting the 3 under pressure, skill sets being relatively equal? It is the psychological edge the best players possess. Confidence is one of the ingredients that provides psychological edge. One quotation I'll often repeat to maintain my psychological edge is "Don't be afraid of the moment" Jeff Van Gundy (former NBA coach).

 

And, confidence, to me, doesn't come from charts, methodology, or practice/repetition directly. It comes from the right kind of repetition. It comes from respecting your stops, respecting your methodology, following your rules over and over and over again. It comes from the self trust of knowing you'll do the right thing at the right moment. It comes from knowing that your healthy habits will give you your highest probability of executing under pressure. Self trust is something only you can give to you. Self trust comes from within. Confidence comes from within.* Without self trust, true confidence cannot be sustained.

 

* "Profitability comes from within." Todd Harrison