Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback,ย get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

TinGull

[VSA] Volume Spread Analysis Part I

Recommended Posts

As far as mutliple time frames. The best approach may be to find certain support/resistance levels on various higher time frames, but trade off of just one lower time frame chart.

ย 

Yes, this is exactly as I do, use Drummon's levels from daily and weekly and use MP to see on lower TF's if levels are holding or breaking. But MP doesn't always catch it, but this VSA thing looks like can really help. Eh, If only I could join them in one platform.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned the morning doji star just because it was mentioned by Gavin Holmes (I think) during the seminar. I'm personally sceptical about focusing on bar closes. A 1 minute bar with a low close followed by a 1 minute bar with a high close would just be a single bar with a high close on a 2 minute chart. The rule is "strength appears on down bars" so in that situation the 1 minute chart is showing strength but the 2 minute chart isn't. I think you'd have to look at the market you want to trade and choose the best time frame to fit your trading style and then just stick with it. Looking at several different time frames may just lead to indecision.

ย 

Wookey, I'd definitely be interested in seeing more of your charts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I "still" dont understand where is the line that divides the interpretation of fading this down bars with volume (showing strength) and having this down bars with volume installing a downtrend like today... in that case they far from showing strength they where preanouncing a big down move... please vsa experts tell me how would we establish the diference.... and where would be the ideal timing to enter either two trades....thanks Walter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

More charts from TradeGuider.

ย 

Attached:

1. Euro Future Daily

2. Microsoft Daily

3. Mini Dow Jones 180 min

4. Mini Dow Jones 1 min

ย 

If you have a request for certain symbol and tf just let me know.

6E.thumb.gif.373b25d09b11d18f4eaf8520dc7e53ea.gif

MSFT.thumb.gif.89c084bd2672251c2016c3ef13021953.gif

YM1.thumb.gif.9277506c5eab1ab5d4a0169f22b3715d.gif

YM180.thumb.gif.bd8ce9f84e07f41139dd8d132bca71bd.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

PivotProfiler,

ย 

Attached. The last three signals are considered weak, thus additional support is needed. The congestion zone at the top (between 3210-3220) when reduced to 15 min bars, looks for TradeGuider as no demand.

Euro5.thumb.gif.e4062734c006495c510bcde3169bcab4.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks very much.

ย 

I place a small dot on all bars that have volume less than the previous two bars. I also place an diamond on bars with narrow ranges and increased volume.

ย 

Here is my chart of the same period. Note how the same levels are clearly indicated on the chart. In other words, those that want to program their own versions can do so. Just start to learn the method and go from there.

5aa70e4a6cb2b_post32.thumb.PNG.817ed18aa502448b3d0dc35d4ef5e749.PNG

Edited by mister ed
add chart back

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hello guys,

ย 

I have a litte trouble understanding volume demand bars after a selloff. I have attached a chart from yesterdays action. The rectangle box shows couple sell volume spikes.

ย 

My questions is this: How do you watch for demand bars after that spike? In the first rectangle the volume spike is created by a doji. The next price bar closes above the high of the doji... this occurs on lower volume. How do you intrepret this? To me it seems like supply is cut off but price continues to drop.

ย 

The same thing occurs in the second rectangle box. Volume spike is created on a down bar but the next bar closes above the low of the previous bar.

ย 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

ymvolumebars.jpg.e65da625e4765037d1a7b3512fd1ea91.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ST, from my limited knowledge I think the key thing is that you're looking for supply to come in at key support levels (if you're buying) and resistance levels (if you're selling). 12190 was a key resistance level (S3 Pivot) and you could have got 50 points from that last trade. On a day like yesterday though you should have been looking for sell signals.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Trade I took today using VSA techniques. Notice when price reached the weekly pivot that we had a wider than average spread and a LOT of volume and then price closed right near the highs of that bar. About 10 seconds before that 5min bar closed I went long at 148 and was out for a 10 point gain (my personal strategy right now...it ended up going for much more I know. baby steps here) but notice how it went on to go 50 points?! insane! This trade I think was perfect in showing VSA. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

VSA_YM.thumb.png.18e6f60d5c31bcaadf35fafe7594db65.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Soultrader,

ย 

See how TradeGuider interpreted yesterday's actions. The first green rectangle is "Strength coming in" signal. The bar has very wide spread, ultra high volume, it closed in the middle part of the bar and made new low. Basicaly, I think, the most nervious sellers started fixing their profits.

ย 

The next red triangle was identified as "No Demand" signal. The bar has narrow spread and low volume. It signals the end of retracement. You may disregard that signal in ranging market as not really important.

ย 

The next green rectangle is called "Climactic action". You see it has ultra wide spread and ultra high volime. In fact it's the widest and highest by volume bar of the day. When you see a bar like this you should think if it's a selling or stoping volume. You may anticipate it knowing about strong support at 12190, or wating for the confirmation which happened on the next bar. In Drummond Geometry a bar like that is called an exhaust.

ย 

The second red triangle is a "No Demand" bar again.

ย 

Next signal is missed here but you already should see that if you combine two bars in 10 min bar it will be the same signal as the first one.

ย 

And the last red rectangle is Upthrust. The volume is not so high, spread is wide, high is hihger than previous several bars and the close is in low part of the bar. They describe it as stop hunting desined by market makers to mislead traders.

ย 

Hope that helps.

YM5.thumb.gif.1a1d491b80da4e40b8033b8a7c28e6dc.gif

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

like it or not Tin... we end up on the same simple corner.... thats a simple hammer with volume surge at support (period).... wanna make it more complicated with vsa etc, etc,etc.... you can make it, but this is the old same good school being thought with some diferent sutil changes.... no new cience here... no new edge... lol... did you notice yesterday how Gavin timed his trades ?.... great contradiction was there... he sayed "weaknes comes on up bars" great input indeed (maybe the only one I did capitalize from yesterday) BUT then his entry was on a swing low of volatility H (old classic past information technical tool, we indicator junkies use) mmmmmm you see... thats a contradiction.... now Tod DID take the trade with the up bar going on.... maybe he has more confidence on what he preaches.... but any way... still the same GOOD old concepts being preached with some variations... I repeat no new cience here... still good cience indeed... Nice trade there Ting.... cheers Walter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're right. There is no new science. Is this still an edge? Absolutely! Why? people overlook the simplicities that can be found in simple analysis like this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Oh yes รƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยก there is an edge on the classic aproach and vsa (included in there )รƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยก what I mean, there is no edge from VSA to the classic aproach.... same thing, diferent presentation and even probably a more complicated presentation....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you notice Tin you are NOT using VSA software and you are perfectly able to capitalize on the old concepts and vsa concepts all together.... personally your chart is more simple and easy to read than vsa chart...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

and you got an up delta รƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยกรƒโ€šร‚ยก on that bottom hammer bar.... you should charge 500 bucks for that setup.... my lord

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Soultrader,

ย 

See how TradeGuider interpreted yesterday's actions. The first green rectangle is "Strength coming in" signal. The bar has very wide spread, ultra high volume, it closed in the middle part of the bar and made new low. Basicaly, I think, the most nervious sellers started fixing their profits.

ย 

The next red triangle was identified as "No Demand" signal. The bar has narrow spread and low volume. It signals the end of retracement. You may disregard that signal in ranging market as not really important.

ย 

The next green rectangle is called "Climactic action". You see it has ultra wide spread and ultra high volime. In fact it's the widest and highest by volume bar of the day. When you see a bar like this you should think if it's a selling or stoping volume. You may anticipate it knowing about strong support at 12190, or wating for the confirmation which happened on the next bar. In Drummond Geometry a bar like that is called an exhaust.

ย 

The second red triangle is a "No Demand" bar again.

ย 

Next signal is missed here but you already should see that if you combine two bars in 10 min bar it will be the same signal as the first one.

ย 

And the last red rectangle is Upthrust. The volume is not so high, spread is wide, high is hihger than previous several bars and the close is in low part of the bar. They describe it as stop hunting desined by market makers to mislead traders.

ย 

Hope that helps.

ย 

Thank you very much Wookey. One thing I have trouble understanding is after the strenght bar and climatic action bar price declines. Shouldnt price lift if this bar was really a climatic bar? Or are the big boys trying to push it up again to sell more?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
like it or not Tin... we end up on the same simple corner.... thats a simple hammer with volume surge at support (period).... wanna make it more complicated with vsa etc, etc,etc.... you can make it, but this is the old same good school being thought with some diferent sutil changes.... no new cience here... no new edge... lol...

ย 

I have made the case before that things that are true tend to transcend methodologies. That is, for example, an ideal No Demand bar would close in the middle on a lower range and volume less than the previous two bars. From a candle perspective, which is not VSA, if this bar was a Doji then the market is showing indecision.

ย 

Another example would be what Bill Williams calls a squat. Basically a squat is a bar with a narrow range and higher volume. VSA teaches us to pay attention to a narrow range bar that has higher volume (especially) if it is ultra high and closes in the middle. Essentially, this is just a more specifically defined squat bar.

ย 

The point, yes many other valid methods will have various underlying concepts in common.

ย 

As far as being new, Wyckoff was doing this in the 1800's. Which proceeds the time candles were introduced in America.

ย 

did you notice yesterday how Gavin timed his trades ?.... great contradiction was there... he sayed "weaknes comes on up bars" great input indeed (maybe the only one I did capitalize from yesterday) BUT then his entry was on a swing low of volatility H (old classic past information technical tool, we indicator junkies use) mmmmmm you see... thats a contradiction.... now Tod DID take the trade with the up bar going on.... maybe he has more confidence on what he preaches.... but any way... still the same GOOD old concepts being preached with some variations... I repeat no new cience here... still good cience indeed... Nice trade there Ting.... cheers Walter.

ย 

Yes. Todd is the true expert not Gavin. I hate watching the webinars with Gavin because he does basically use an indicator based system. The very thing we abhor!!!!!!! He needs to take the "h stops" off the chart and focus on price and volume. Gavin is also too dependant on the TG signs rather than what the bar itself has to say. He does believe in Volume Spread Analysis and thus makes an okay salesman, but is not he is be no means the ultimate chart reader.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And I think the biggest thing that I took off that webinar yesterday...and I'm sure most people already do this but I didn't...was using VSA on a larger time frame to determine short term bias. Today the first 30 minute bar was a long legged doji. Not taking the open into account...we had a fairly wide range (definitely wider than premarket) with big volume (very big in comparison to the past few days' first 30 minute bar) and closed in the lower half of the spread.

ย 

I assume this would shout out to have a short term bearish bias. What they did was say...filter out any trades against your bias. WOW! Like a miracle to my ears right there. I hadn't ever done that. Just taken what looked good at the moment. Then today around 12:45 we had a MAJOR reversal. HUGE volume on a down bar with positive delta...thats something to take note of for sure. Bias switched to long at that point.

ย 

That was a big thing for me to learn. Very big thing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hello guys,

ย 

I have a litte trouble understanding volume demand bars after a selloff. I have attached a chart from yesterdays action. The rectangle box shows couple sell volume spikes.

ย 

My questions is this: How do you watch for demand bars after that spike? In the first rectangle the volume spike is created by a doji. The next price bar closes above the high of the doji... this occurs on lower volume. How do you intrepret this? To me it seems like supply is cut off but price continues to drop.

ย 

The same thing occurs in the second rectangle box. Volume spike is created on a down bar but the next bar closes above the low of the previous bar.

ย 

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks

ย 

Soul,

ย 

A couple things to think about. First at the time of the volume spike what was the trend? This is very important. If the trend was up then what we would be looking for is different than if the trend was down.

ย 

Next, are we around a known support/resistance area. These areas are usually respected by Smart Money. If we are and the trend is down, then we would expect to see demand enter the market, but not necessarily a change in trend.

ย 

After the large volume spike that closes on or near its high, we know that there must of been some Professional buying going on. Price does indeed move up. But as the trend is down we might expect to see a narrow range bar with volume less than the previous two that closes up from the previous bar, with the next bar down-No Demand.

ย 

Once you see the spike bar, You begin to look for either No Demand , No Supply, Tests , or Up Thrusts.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I love this...learning more stuff every 10 minutes!! HAHA!! Like light bulbs all over the place (compact fluorescents of course).

ย 

So...as you were saying...in the down trend with a spike in volume followed by some demand but nothing trend changing would be shown as smaller, narrow range bars. Such as those circled here. This of course is remaining in tact with the overall trend, just letting you know this where the good bounce is to get in.

ย 

How awesome....I love it!

YMDiv_07.thumb.png.451835ad6fb8914f133ac9b40fb3d35c.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hope you don't mind, TinGull but used your chat to show something. Just a couple of things to look for.

ย 

One note on stopping volume. Tom Williams, the father of VSA, would enter on the close of that bar. TG, however would not place a sign of strength until the next bar closes and is an up close. (2 bar pattern).

ย 

Getting in at the very bottom or top is not the most important thing. Here the best entry is after the test. Why? Because we have seen the strength come in on the stopping volume. Then we see a No Supply indication followed by a test for supply.

ย 

The Smart Money wants to make sure that there are no sellers out there to impede the mark up phase. That is why they test the market. Of course, the mark aggressive you are as a trader the earlier you would enter. But you should be looking for the bar after the volume spike (stopping volume) to confirm before entry.

5aa70e4a74ffb_post48.thumb.PNG.5b7c2e77e57a89962c328015c3a0f054.PNG

Edited by mister ed
add back deleted chart

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Pivot, thanks for contributing to this thread, I find this method extremely useful and fascinating. I've been trying to learn the relationship between the price and volume in groups but never seen a bar by bar analysis until now.

ย 

One question about your analysis from the previous chart, I noticed that there was a stopping volume brown bar before the true bottom. Can you tell me why this was a false bottom or at least explain action between the previous pivot low to the bottom bar.

ย 

I wanted to ask you if using tick charts work in VSA or not. Thanks.

ย 

vsa-question.PNG

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Torero asked the same Q I was going to ask. :) And T...tick charts are harder to see the differences in volume because they're masked by bars being determined by trades instead of time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • $VKTX Viking Therapeutics stock attempting to move higher off the 64.24 support area, volume 47% above normal, https://stockconsultant.com/?VKTX
    • Date: 26th April 2024. Alphabet Easily Beat Earnings Predictions But Focus Shifts to Todayโ€™s PCE Data. Microsoft and Alphabetโ€™s earnings reports beat expectations pushing the NASDAQ to the top of the charts. The Bank of Japan keep interest rates unchanged applying pressure on the Japanese Yen. The Yen Index declines 0.36% and is down 40% against the USD over the past 5 years. The US GDP growth rate falls below its 2.5% expectations, reading 1.6%, but economists advise the Fed may only cut once in 2024! The market turns its attention to the Core PCE Price Index which analysts expect to fall from 2.8% to 2.6%. USA100 โ€“ Alphabet Easily Beat Analystsโ€™ Earnings Predictions and Sees its P/E Ratio Fall! The price of the NASDAQ ended the day higher and rose to a slightly higher high. As a result, the index is close to forming a traditional bullish trend and making Wednesdayโ€™s decline a retracement or medium-term correction. In terms technical analysis, indicators are mainly indicating a reverting price condition where the asset cannot maintain longer term momentum. However, momentum indications provide a slight bullish bias. The upward price movement is being driven by earnings reports from Microsoft and Alphabet which beat earnings expectations. Microsoft is the most influential stock for the NASDAQ while Alphabet is the third most influential. Alphabetโ€™s earnings beat expectations by 21.61% and revenue rose more than $6 billion. As a result, the price of the stock rose 11.56% after market close. Furthermore, Microsoftโ€™s Earnings Per Share beat Wall Streetโ€™s expectations by 3.40% and revenue by 1.50%. The stock rose by 4.30% after market close and is close to trading at the all-time high. However, investors should note that from the โ€œmagnificent 7โ€, Alphabet and Meta have the lowest Price to Earnings ratio. Meaning these stocks are the most likely to be trading below their intrinsic value. However, investors should note that negatives for the stock market in general remain. This also supports the bias shown by technical analysis. The GDP growth rate fell considerably below expectations while inflation data continues to show signs of rising prices. Investors will closely be monitoring todayโ€™s Core PCE Price Index which is the most watched index by the Federal Reserve. Analysts expect the Core PCE Price Index to fall from 2.8% to 2.6%. If the index reads more than 0.3%, a rate cut will become unlikely making stocks less attractive. Whereas, if the PCE Price Index is not as high as expectations, Bond Yields will likely decline, as will the US Dollar and a rate cut will be put back on the table. As a result, investors may look to take advantage of the strong earnings and continue purchasing stocks. USDJPY โ€“ BOJ Hold Interest Rates Unchanged! The price of the USDJPY exchange rate again rose to an all-time recent high after increasing in value for 3 consecutive days. Trend and momentum-based indicators point towards a higher price. However, the exchange rate is trading within the overbought range of most oscillators and is also showing a divergence pattern. Both are known to indicate a decline, but not necessarily a complete change of trend. The Bank of Japanโ€™s statement from earlier this morning was largely โ€œdovishโ€ and gave no clear indication that the central bank wishes to keep rising interest rates. However, shortly the Governor will answer questions from journalists and may give a more hawkish tone. Either way, investors are mainly concentrating on if the Federal Government will again opt to intervene within the currency market. Most economists believe the intervention will only come if the USD continues to rise and it will not be before the Core PCE Price Index. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Clickย HEREย to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Clickย HEREย to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Michalis Efthymiou Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer:ย This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • ๐Ÿ“ Population in 2100, as projected by UN Population Division. ย  ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ณ India: 1,533 million ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ณ China: 771 million ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ฌ Nigeria: 546 million ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ฐ Pakistan: 487 million ๐Ÿ‡จ๐Ÿ‡ฉ Congo: 431 million ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ธ US: 394 million ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡น Ethiopia: 323 million ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ฉ Indonesia: 297 million ๐Ÿ‡น๐Ÿ‡ฟ Tanzania: 244 million ๐Ÿ‡ช๐Ÿ‡ฌ Egypt: 205 million ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ท Brazil: 185 million ๐Ÿ‡ต๐Ÿ‡ญ Philippines: 180 million ๐Ÿ‡ง๐Ÿ‡ฉ Bangladesh: 177 million ๐Ÿ‡ณ๐Ÿ‡ช Niger: 166 million ๐Ÿ‡ธ๐Ÿ‡ฉ Sudan: 142 million ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ด Angola: 133 million ๐Ÿ‡บ๐Ÿ‡ฌ Uganda: 132 million ๐Ÿ‡ฒ๐Ÿ‡ฝ Mexico: 116 million ๐Ÿ‡ฐ๐Ÿ‡ช Kenya: 113 million ๐Ÿ‡ท๐Ÿ‡บ Russia: 112 million ๐Ÿ‡ฎ๐Ÿ‡ถ Iraq: 111 million ๐Ÿ‡ฆ๐Ÿ‡ซ Afghanistan: 110 million ย  @FinancialWorldUpdates Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ย  ย 
    • โ€œIf the West finds itself falling behind in AI, it wonโ€™t be due to a lack of technological prowess or resources. It wonโ€™t be because we werenโ€™t smart enough or didnโ€™t move fast enough. It will be because of something many of our Eastern counterparts donโ€™t share with us: fear of AI. ย  The root of the West's fear of AI can no doubt be traced back to decades of Hollywood movies and books that have consistently depicted AI as a threat to humanity. From the iconic "Terminator" franchise to the more recent "Ex Machina," we have been conditioned to view AI as an adversary, a force that will ultimately turn against us. ย  In contrast, Eastern cultures have a WAY different attitude towards AI. As UN AI Advisor Neil Sahota points out, "In Eastern culture, movies, and books, they've always seen AI and robots as helpers and assistants, as a tool to be used to further the benefit of humans." ย  This positive outlook on AI has allowed countries like Japan, South Korea, and China to forge ahead with AI development, including in areas like healthcare, where AI is being used to improve the quality of services. ย  The West's fear of AI is not only shaping public opinion but also influencing policy decisions and regulatory frameworks. The European Union, for example, recently introduced AI legislation prioritizing heavy-handed protection over supporting innovation. ย  While such measures might be well-intentioned, they risk stifling AI development and innovation, making it harder for Western companies and researchers to compete. ย  Among the nations leading common-sense AI regulation, one stands out for now: Singapore.โ€ โ€“ Chris C Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ย 
    • $NFLX Netflix stock hold at 556.59 support or breakdown?ย  https://stockconsultant.com/?NFLX
ร—
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.