Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

Guest OILFXPRO

Why Buy Trading Education?

Recommended Posts

Guest OILFXPRO

There is a lot of free educational sites , with clean clear content on trading related information.Just go to you tube and there are thousands of educational videoes , there are hundreds of free systems and methods on the internet search engines.

 

Why should you buy same or other trading education?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
There is a lot of free educational sites , with clean clear content on trading related information.Just go to you tube and there are thousands of educational videoes , there are hundreds of free systems and methods on the internet search engines.

 

Why should you buy same or other trading education?

 

Perception.If it is free it isn't worth anything.All education costs money.Private education does and state education indirectly

Yes you can go to youtube,but can you see anyone trading in real time? It looks like a lot of theory and hindsight to me.Maybe there are a couple,i don't know,but i bet if they said,sign up to my seminar/buy my book and i'll tell you about the stuff I don't show here,people would pay.

 

Getting things for free isn't the problem in itself.Celebrities get lots of things free,from cars to little bags of goodies at privately arranged promotions.But in return they're supposed to be walking adverts for these things.

 

What about free food? I'm sure celebrities would take free food even though they're loaded,so long as it's delivered by Harrods.

I'd like free food too,but not if they parked an Oxfam truck outside my house every week.

 

Anyone who's waded through this sea of free information out there and is still struggling probably figures that they need a mentor and if that is going to save them from loss/further loss then it's probably worth paying for.

 

There's probably lot's of shades of grey with this.Supposing you can trade but you know nothing about a specialized area in trading,would it be more practical to pay for the education?

Depends on who's doing the educating and who is paying.Companies send their employees on education courses.Can't really say to them,hunt around on youtube for a week and see what you can find.

 

Probably not as simple as saying free= good,paying =bad.Even though in many cases people would have been better to have self educated rather than have paid.

 

My pet hate is dressing up freely available information,regurgitating it and flogging it under the guise that it's something new,or special,or secret.There's a world of difference between a charlatan and an expert.

 

Contrary to my reputation on here I do think there is a place for teachers who charge,but quite frankly most vendors are snake charmers who can't trade themselves.

I understand that knowing what to do doesn't mean that a person can do it themselves,but these people just outright lie about the fact that they can't trade,and so they must believe that most people do not want to pay someone who they perceive can't trade themselves.

 

And you know what? maybe they're right after all.Maybe they know you shouldn't try and reinvent the wheel.Maybe they know you should give a sucker what he wants.Because maybe too many people prefer to buy a dream rather than listen to the voice of reality.

And maybe too many people are just too damn lazy to spend the time educating themselves.And maybe many people think that in this business that's not even possible.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO

Good education is priceless , but how do u know the right mentor?

 

A quality mentor can make the difference , if they trade they don't need to educate , cause they can make millions or billions.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
If you have a way of navigating through the maze of information then free is good. :)

 

surely some one would have written a book for less tan $50 , without having to navigate , so books are written by failed traders who sell education?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to preface this with the idea that there are trading educators, trading service providers and mentors. They are different people, and there are snakes and good ones in all three. (Many fund managers/brokers/regulators/insurance companies/banks etc could also be lumped in here - they are often service providers who promise, charge but dont deliver - why shouldit be any different elsewhere)

 

My pet hate is dressing up freely available information,regurgitating it and flogging it under the guise that it's something new,or special,or secret.There's a world of difference between a charlatan and an expert.

 

I think this is the one thing that many people do get up in arms about. I agree and I have never had a problem with educators - its educators with red flag and 'spurious claims' that are the problem. To often a trading educator is simply a service provider. they provide an education in a few things, they point out the pitfalls, they can help walk people through things. So how much would you pay for this.

 

As to the question : why buy trading education.....

the answer is : Its a short cut. Its like any education you have to spend money on. be that in time or a book or a video.

 

The real question people should be asking is - what are my expectations from wanting to trade, buying this education and how much it costs both in time and effort and then usually if they can justify it to them selves after these questions so be it.

 

Reality is often their expectations are so f...d up because they listen to trading educators who spout BS about abnormal returns....and the first thing everyone forgets about is - if it sound too good to be true it probably is......after that who cares if they spend their hard earned cash and act as suckers. Any person who spends 2k of a 20k stake for an education is in too much of a hurry.....especially when they think they will turn that 20k into 100k. They should spend another year working to save more money and at the same time getting their education.

(you do know the reason why scams work and will continue to do so)

 

When you pick up a book and think this is all you need you are also kidding yourself. Thinking one good book will navigate the system will navigate the free info and help separate the good and bad info......:doh: (In recent years Its called the roladex 'for who can bail me out ' and it costs more than $50, and these are the guys who where meant to be the master of the universe and knowing how it all works.)

 

Oily - you ask about a good mentor - any m...f who claims to be a mentor and then charges money for it is not a mentor. They are a service provider. A mentor does not charge money......it makes me furious when people use this term. (a bug bear of mine and not picking on you, I have just had a day of snacking on stroopwaffles.....hmmmmm)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Good education is priceless , but how do u know the right mentor?

 

A quality mentor can make the difference , if they trade they don't need to educate , cause they can make millions or billions.

 

This seems to be a constant theme for you- millions,billions,and idiots.Why the obsession?

So your point is here,a mentor can make a difference....but he shouldn't...'cos he doesn't need to...:confused:

 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wj84tfS7ag4]johnny nice painter FAST SHOW - YouTube[/ame]

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Why should you buy same or other trading education?

 

Maybe its a part of some massive and elaborate money laundering scheme ?

 

Maybe Mr Charts is the head of some UK based terrorist cell, and the punters handing over cash for "training" are really extremists funding the overthrow of western democracy ?

 

That would make about as much sense as any other reason, actually, a lot more sense if you really do want to see western democracy destroyed

 

How much is he charging ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
Maybe its a part of some massive and elaborate money laundering scheme ?

 

Maybe Mr Charts is the head of some UK based terrorist cell, and the punters handing over cash for "training" are really extremists funding the overthrow of western democracy ?

 

That would make about as much sense as any other reason, actually, a lot more sense if you really do want to see western democracy destroyed

 

How much is he charging ?

 

£800 per day , but he is scared of blowing his account , so he does not show advance live trading , but hindsight cherry picked results.The big losers and account failures are never mentioned , otherwise his threads would make him a billionaire after 8 years of so much success.The profit was given away to charity , the educating fees he pocketed.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If you are a successful trader, then your time is worth money, perhaps lots of it. So why work for free? Unless that is, you have found someone worthy of mentoring (in the sense Siuya talks about), someone who is sharp and dedicated and has the right attitude. Then it is for free because it is enjoyable to help people help themselves. But the rest who want to complain? Well why not charge them. Idiots will give their money away one way or another.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
This seems to be a constant theme for you- millions,billions,and idiots.Why the obsession?

So your point is here,a mentor can make a difference....but he shouldn't...'cos he doesn't need to...:confused:

 

Most mentors that are good at trading , will not waste valuable energies on educating retards and idiots , they would rather concentrate on trading than waste valuable trading energies on 99% of wannabe traders.Only 1 % of thos those wanna traders are cut out to be traders , but that trader will possibly not have suuficient capital to keep a mentor.

Out of the other 99 % , maybe 5 % have the money to blow away on a mentor.

 

If the mentor is any good as a trader , he does not need to trade , he can become a compounding billionaire on forums and a forum guru ........like all the failures who hang around forums offering course and education.If the educator can't solve the problem of failing at trading , how can he mentor others?Has he reached the level of suuccesful trading , I suspect no , has he the right qualities to teach ?NO , but he can sell education on false pretenses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A lot of the educators out there were successful traders...on the floor. Most, if not all, were unable to make the transition to the screen. So they teach what they knew on the floor. IMO the skills on the floor are different than the skills needed to trade from a computer.

 

When I first started to trade, I traded over Skype with a couple of former floor traders. They knew the lingo but they had no more insight to the market than I did as a beginner. It was still a guessing game for them. They wanted to get into the education end. In fact, one of them did and is making good money at the education.

 

I think that unless you have a family member that is a successful trader, it will be difficult to find a trader to help you. If they are good, they are usually reclusive and secretive.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
surely some one would have written a book for less tan $50 , without having to navigate , so books are written by failed traders who sell education?

 

Like Soros for example :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
A lot of the educators out there were successful traders...on the floor. Most, if not all, were unable to make the transition to the screen. So they teach what they knew on the floor. IMO the skills on the floor are different than the skills needed to trade from a computer.

 

When I first started to trade, I traded over Skype with a couple of former floor traders. They knew the lingo but they had no more insight to the market than I did as a beginner. It was still a guessing game for them. They wanted to get into the education end. In fact, one of them did and is making good money at the education.

 

I think that unless you have a family member that is a successful trader, it will be difficult to find a trader to help you. If they are good, they are usually reclusive and secretive.

 

the market changed a lot , if they are secretive with their losses , no one can help them

 

A course can cost $ 5,000 from possibly failed traders , at the end of the course you are no better off than getting the information for free.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO

Most people selling trading education are failed traders , clueless traders , losers who can't make money from trading , scammers , FORUM sponsors and incompetent traders.

 

What are you going to learn from these INCOMPETENT TRADERS selling courses?You learn to become failures like them and hand over your money for nothing.

 

They need to make money from selling education and writing books , to make up their losses.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What are you going to learn from these INCOMPETENT TRADERS selling courses?...

 

I suppose you learn not to buy trading education. Its a lesson well worth paying for

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
I suppose you learn not to buy trading education. Its a lesson well worth paying for

 

when you buy trading education from idiots and failed traders (are most educators trading idiots ?) , then you became an IDIOT like them , you need to become a scammer to make a living like the IDIOTS.

 

If the IDIOTS can trade and make billions like compounding billionaires, why these donkeys need to kiss a ass on a forum?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think for getting some good things we have to pay for it and if we are getting best knowledge from investing some money then its not a wastage of money. It depends on a person's thinking that he is interested or not to learn trading tips and tricks in a proper way.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO
I think for getting some good things we have to pay for it and if we are getting best knowledge from investing some money then its not a wastage of money. It depends on a person's thinking that he is interested or not to learn trading tips and tricks in a proper way.

 

Most trading educators are like slags , they only care about screwing new traders for money , beyond that point they have no interest in the student..Most of them failed at trading.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I know only one honest guy in trading. His subscriptions are gold ( pun intended)

I knew one other but he quit in 2009. But dont know if his methods worked afterall.

This guy sells quite cheap subscriptions for systems that really are well backtested and work in the current environment. The problem is I think he is afraid we will go to the environment pre 1987. So he decided to sell his systems and compound much faster, I think. The time periods after 1987 however, is very similar to eachother.

 

In any case, you can buy any education and ask questions. And if he skirts around you know he is a tool. But generally honest educators are honest in everything. They dont fudge. They arent 99%, but 100% honest. So if you see even one weird thing going on, its suspicious

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO

Some idiot looks at 10 indicators , I mean lagging indicators he bought from mt4 forums (these forums were set up by trading idiots and scammers).

 

Another idiot looks at elliot wave and has found the holy grail and 12 charts simultaenously , and thinks he can process 12 charts info simultaenously.This idiot is a trading educator and teaches everbody the wrong things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If they are good, they are usually reclusive and secretive.

 

I don't know if this is 100% true. However, I do know one guy who has proven skills. He actually has several good systems that work. He is very reclusive though.

 

He also really values his free time. So what he did was to code his various systems, and now his computer runs them for him, automatically.

 

He is a good guy, but the last thing he would ever do is make a trading course and sell it to anyone. He has no motivation to do that. It's a huge, huge overwhelming undertaking (Believe me, I did it myself). He could just as easily be on the golf course while his computer trades for him.

 

He does lease the programs out to a brokerage (which is how I know him, as I am an AP for said brokerage), who uses them to run their managed futures program. However, you will never see, or hear anything from him personally. He won't even share how the systems work with us.

 

When I see the over all attitude towards those who are on the education side of the industry, I can completely understand why someone who can trade, would never step up and start teaching anyone. You would instantly go from being someone who is a respected, successful professional, to having the reputation as being a liar and a scamer whether you deserved it or not. Just look at the overwhelming opinion on educators in this thread alone. No real professional is going to tarnish themselves like that.

 

 

DISCLAIMER:

THE PRECEDING POST IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL IN NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSES OF EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION *ONLY*

 

THE RISK OF LOSS IN TRADING COMMODITIES CAN BE SUBSTANTIAL.

THE HIGH DEGREE OF LEVERAGE THAT IS OFTEN ATTAINABLE IN COMMODITY TRADING CAN WORK FOR YOU, AS WELL AS AGAINST YOU.

PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT NECESSARILY INDICATIVE OF FUTURE RESULTS.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest OILFXPRO

When I see the over all attitude towards those who are on the education side of the industry, I can completely understand why someone who can trade, would never step up and start teaching anyone. You would instantly go from being someone who is a respected, successful professional, to having the reputation as being a liar and a scamer whether you deserved it or not. Just look at the overwhelming opinion on educators in this thread alone. No real professional is going to tarnish themselves like that.

 

 

Anybody who can trade is not going to be teaching poor trading mindsets , unless they themselves can not trade and there is a lot missing in them to , they are missing knowledge and lack mental edge.

 

Any professional who can make 100 pips a week , will be a billionaire within a few years , there are several threads on compounding billionaires on the net , that will explain why.Actually most of these failures are not billionaires , but sellers of education , more importantly sellers of a failures knowledge and education.These failures hang around internet sites and forums.

 

The real traders would charge their batteries , not appear on forums posting lies.:rofl:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.Anybody who can trade is not going to be teaching poor trading mindsets , unless they themselves can not trade and there is a lot missing in them to , they are missing knowledge and lack mental edge

 

Well, of course no successful trader is going to teach poor mindsets. The rest of that comment is not talking about successful traders. It's talking about those who are not.

 

Any professional who can make 100 pips a week , will be a billionaire within a few years , there are several threads on compounding billionaires on the net , that will explain why.

 

 

I am not sure how you come up with that figure, unless you are thinking about doing extremely risky inverse pyramiding schemes.

 

I don't play Forex, I play Futures, so let me try and give a futures based example. One point in the ES (S&P 500 E-Mini) is $12.50. The automated trading system we run our managed futures program with makes maybe 15 to 16 trades a month, and has gains that often around $400.00 (32 points) So if you calculate that out over a year, that is 72K profits in a year. Sounds real nice right?

 

Well, you have to understand that NO system goes straight up. Every trading method known to man has periods of draw down. So while it may make nice gains when it is doing good, often even for periods of time, it's only a matter of time before you also have enough losers to negate a lot of those gains as well.

 

Trading is risky. You cannot eliminate that risk. You will always have losing trades. Since you can't know how many will win, or lose, or even what the amounts are in a hypothetical guess like this, we need to go to the books to see what actually happened.

 

In 2013 our one automated system for the ES was up 70% (after fees and commissions), in real money. That is dam good by anyone's standards. You would be hard pressed to find more than a few real systems that actually performs like that, or better.

 

We require a starting capital of 5K per contract for our ES system. 70% of 5K is $3500.00. If you put up 50K, to trade 10 contracts at a time, you would have seen 35K added to your account in 2013.

 

35K a year is not a heck of a lot of money. Even if you invested that back into the account to add more contracts, you are still not going to see 100K the following year (assuming it does that good a second year in a row). That is a long, long way from being a billionaire. It will take a lot of compounding, and a long, long time of doing it to hit the big "B". So, I don't know where you get a Billion dollar number from, especially in a few years.

 

Actually most of these failures are not billionaires , but sellers of education , more importantly sellers of a failures knowledge and education.These failures hang around internet sites and forums.

 

You could be right. Trading is not easy. Anyone who can do it, will openly tell you that. In fact, it is really hard, and you get beat up way more than you would realize. Emotionally it takes a toll on you. This is especially so if you are trying to make a living from it.

 

I am sure there are plenty of people who have wining methods, that simply cannot stomach the drawdown cycles. They just give up, get out, and write courses. Then they have to suffer being attacked and maligned when they are the very ones who bring working methods to the public.

 

The truth of the matter, is that trading is a full time commitment...and most people simply cannot blow off work for years on end, to stare at a screen all day in order grow their account to the point where it's big enough to live off of.

 

They have to pay the bills in the mean time. Who can afford to do that while they try and take their 10K account to the 500K they really need to make a living? It's a gamble if they can do it at all. We have not even taken into account the learning curve.

 

Unless you are in the business, where it's your job to be pickled in this stuff, it's just not realistic.

 

So the people writing courses may not be failures...maybe they are honest people trying to figure out how to make it happen with a good system?

 

The real traders would charge their batteries , not appear on forums posting lies.:rofl:

 

I think there is no way to tell what a real trader, who is successful, will be doing, or not doing. Someone who has put so much effort to actually getting good at this game, is probably a little obsessed with said game...so why would they not be on forums? We are.

 

DISCLAIMER:

THE PRECEDING POST IS STRICTLY HYPOTHETICAL IN NATURE, FOR THE PURPOSES OF EDUCATION AND DISCUSSION *ONLY*

 

THE RISK OF LOSS IN TRADING COMMODITIES CAN BE SUBSTANTIAL.

THE HIGH DEGREE OF LEVERAGE THAT IS OFTEN ATTAINABLE IN COMMODITY TRADING CAN WORK FOR YOU, AS WELL AS AGAINST YOU.

PAST PERFORMANCE IS NOT NECESSARILY INDICATIVE OF FUTURE RESULTS.

Edited by SpearPointTrader

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Weekly Trading Forecasts for Major Pairs (July 23 - 27, 2018)          Here’s the market outlook for the week:   EURUSD Dominant bias: Neutral   Price made a bullish attempt on Monday, but started coming down afterwards. The support line at 1.1600 was tested and price bounced off it, closing above another support line at 1.1700. The market is neutral, and that status will continue as long as price oscillates between the support line at 1.1550 and the resistance line at 1.1800. However, the neutrality in the market will soon end, and ensuing movement could most probably favor bulls. This means a break above the resistance line at 1.1800 is possible before the end of the week.   USDCHF Dominant bias: Neutral This pair also went downwards at the beginning of last week, and then rallied around the middle of the week, only to come downward again at the end of the week. Price closed below the resistance level at 0.9950, threatening to go further downwards. The bias on the market is eventually neutral, and it would remain so until the support level at 0.9850 is breached to the downside. The most probable direction is southwards.   GBPUSD Dominant bias: Bearish GBPUSD is a weak trading instrument. Since April 14, price has been going downwards. Price moved briefly below the accumulation territory at 1.3000, and then rallied by 170 pips, almost reaching the distribution territory at 1.3150. The bias remains essentially bearish (but perpetual bullish effort could threaten the bearish bias). There are additional distribution territories 1.3200, 1.3250 and 1.3300.   USDJPY Dominant bias: Bullish After testing the supply level at 113.00 several times, a bearish correction was started, which made the price close below the supply level at 111.50 on July 20 (a drop of 150 pips). The bias is bullish in the long-term, but going bearish in the short-term. Things will go completely bearish when price moves further downwards by another 200 pips, reaching the demand levels at 111.00, 110.50 and 110.00, and going further downwards.   EURJPY Dominant bias: Bullish   The market had been going upwards since June 28 until recently. The recent bias is bullish but there is a high possibility of price going bearish. Price has made a bearish U-turn, after almost reaching the supply zone at 132.00. It is expected that price will continue to go downwards this week, thereby rendering the recent bullish bias invalid and reaching the demand zones at 130.00, 129.50 and 129.00. Those demand zones may even be exceeded before the end of July.   GBPJPY Dominant bias: Bearish There is a Bearish Confirmation Pattern in the market, as a result of a drop of 300 pips last week. The drop has already generated a bearish signal in the market, brought about by the perceived weakness in GBP, and the strength in JPY. This week (even till the end of July), the outlook on JPY pairs is bearish, and that means GBPJPY also will experience further bearish movement, which would enable it to reach the demand zones at 145.50, 140.00 and 135.50.         This forecast is concluded with the quote below:   “A surprising insight for me in Jack Schwager’s Market Wizards was that most of the top traders he interviewed are 1-trick ponies: they do one thing — and they do it very well. Their success was built upon their ability to discover what others overlooked. I concluded that ‘doing one thing well’ would immediately simplify my trading life and could eventually evolve one thing into an important trading edge.” – VTI   Source: www.tallinex.com      
    • $EFII (EFII) Electronics For Imaging stock flat top breakout watch above 35.53,



      analysis https://stockconsultant.com/?EFII
       
    • Hi All, What trading platform do you prefer for US Equities? Pros and Cons? thanks! 
    • Very interesting question. Personally, I believe market swings in those sectors are influenced by other factors, not only the presidents' background or agenda. Having said that, it may be worth regressing the data for a firm conclusion. 
    • $AAP (AAP) Advance Auto Parts stock flat top breakout above 142.21, target 152.7, +7%,



      analysis https://stockconsultant.com/?AAP
       
×

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.