brownsfan019

key - so the question is, if you are in a trade and the pit noise does not 'comfort' you, do you exit the trade based on this? I think the pit noise can give a false sense of security. One example I remember was when a trader friend of mine was using pit noise (he no longer uses it) and we were in a chat room together and he said something like 'pit just said Merrill buying huge lots' during some action. He proceeded to buy. About 30 seconds later he was stopped out. Granted this was one example, but I'll never forget it.

Walter - let's see if I can... GREEN LINE = Quick MA RED LINE = Slower MA Blue candles = up candles Red candles = down candles The strategy is rather complex and difficult to explain here... let's give it a whirl - both MA's pointing up, consider long; both MA's pointing down, consider short. You'll note that I use Share Bar Charts (aka Volume Based Charts). I used to use minute charts and found that the premise behind them is faulty in that who cares what happens in 3 minutes? I'm interested in knowing when there is action, aka volume. I want to see when there is action happening and volume charts do just that - candles rapidly fire when there is action (and when I coincidentally want in) and candles take longer to form when there is minimal action (and when I don't want to participate usually). I would strongly encourage all traders, esp newbies, to examine Volume Based Charts / Share Bars in your trading. The end result to me has been phenonmenal. The 'holy grail' (to me) if you will. Just changing a simple setting on how you view the chart is what propelled me to the next level. note - I obviously did not disclose the exact way I trade. That was done on purpose. I believe in learning things for yourself. I could easily disclose how I trade here, but inevitably most would consider it to simple and need/want to complicate it b/c it just can't possibly be that easy...

Here you go guys... It does not get much more complicated than this. I have a 6 monitor setup and depending on what I am trading currently, all or some of the monitors is used per market.

Soul - on my trading platform I have 10 levels deep on the YM. I understand that the CBOT offers 10, but some platforms only provide 5. Just an FYI in case that's of interest to anyone.

I would say that a professional trader: Derives their income and livelihood from trading Treats trading as a business, not a hobby Obviously those bullet points imply that you are trading money (yours and/or OPM) in such a way that you can live comfortably off the trading gains and that your business is structured in a way that makes the most legal and tax sense. In the end, I think it's simply running your trading business as an actual business. And by that I mean you consult the proper attorneys, cpa's, etc on how to structure your business. The reason I say that is most 'non-pro' traders are never even going to get to this step due to losses and/or lack of desire. To me, it's very easy to tell the difference between a pro vs. a non-pro. All you have to do is ask the right questions.

Knyyt - being a professional trader has no correlation with a Series 7, 3, etc. I had my 7, 63, etc when I was a stockbroker and I couldn't trade if my life depended on it. I sold investments. Getting a Series 7 or 3 is simply passing an exam(s). By passing this exam(s) there is no probability of success. While I was a broker I was also a trainer and mentor at my firm and there is no direct correlation between passing a test and being a good broker and/or trader.

I agree notouch, I find pit noise a distraction and nothing more. As everyone else here, I've tried it, thought it would give me an edge and all it did was stir up emotions while trying to trade. What I mean is, I could be in a trade (say long for example) and a large sell order comes thru and you panic b/c you are long and a big sell just hit. Well, that 'large' order could just be some covering or not much really at all. Whereas your chart would simply keep you in the trade. I just found it a waste of money and a distraction.

wsam - I recently got a new laptop (not for trading) but went with a Core Duo Intel processor (not Core2) and I can really tell the difference in speed and how quick things are moving now. I had a Pentium 4. Just a suggestion. I guess it depends on how often you replace your computers, but if it's not too often, I might consider the Core Duo or Core2Duo processor.

Pips - you'll soon find that entries are probably the easiest part of trading. At least for me it is. When to take profits and losses are much more difficult in my opinion. Good luck! PS Why forex??? I have a hard time wanting to trade in something that is so unregulated. Trading is hard enough as it is without your broker or others playing against you. I know there are ways to trade outside of the bucket shops, but I just don't get it. I think futures offer incredible leverage (like forex) that is highly regulated (unlike forex) with simple, easy commissions (unlike forex). I have a trader buddy that was 'black balled' at one of the major FX brokers b/c he was winning TOO MUCH. How does that work? If you are successful, your broker can turn away your business? I just don't get it...

It's not timing the business, it's time in the business.

Kiwi - yes, it's just like texting from your regular phone, just a lot more convenient for when you need to!

notouch - I'm surprised by your TS statement regarding data. I have not had a problem (knock on wood) in months. Many, many months. I had tried ESignal and they had major data issues then and came back to TS and haven't looked back. What markets are you trading where the data is unreliable? I trade the main e-mini markets and the Euro FX and it's been great for months!! I do not trade thru them, so can't speak on behalf of execution. Don't care to have all my eggs in one basket.

I haven't upgraded to Vista (yet) and probably won't for awhile. I never really liked being a guniea pig in my opinion of running a new OS right away. As for Office 07, it takes some getting used to, but there are some neat features hidden in there. Like anything else new, it takes time to get used to, esp as you become more and more dependent on the current version. For example, Excel now has quick access to formula building stuff that is very convenient for me now. Outlook has the ability to send text messages to cell phones! There is some great stuff in Office 07.

Pivot and Soul - I understand what you are saying. And it makes sense that if a person is placing a stop purely based on a dollar amount, then that stop may not need to be hit to be wrong. It appears there may be 2 ways to place stops: A monetary stop A stop based on the trade/pattern/etc To be honest, I never really thought about placing an arbitrary stop based on a fixed dollar/tick amount. But, I can see why traders, esp new to trading, could try this method. If using a monetary stop, there may not be a reason to wait till it is hit. With the way that I trade, each stop is different and dictated by the current market conditions and trade. Sometimes I literally have a 2 or 3 tick stop. Sometimes it's up to 10 ticks. The reason for stop placement here is simply based on the market conditions and movements. In essence, my stops are at 'micro-trend respect levels'. I know that doesn't make a ton of sense, but basically my stops are put at an area that on a short-term chart that level is being respected. For sake of discussion, call it minor support/resistance. So, if I am going long and I place my stop just beneath some short-term support, until that support is broken, I am still in the trade. I understand that we all want instant profits and quick. There's nothing better than a trade that just sky rockets in your direction. But in reality, that doesn't always happen. So, for those new to trading or looking for ideas, just keep in mind that if you place stops in areas that are respected, you should consider giving that trade room to move. That's my opinion. Others say get out and then look to re-enter. I personally don't care to jump in and out b/c I am waiting for the move and maybe I am a tad early. I'm ok with being a little early and being patient. Others disagree. Here is another key in all of this - your commission costs. Any trader should take the time to contact numerous brokers and negotiate a good commission rate. Keep in mind that if you are trading 1 contract and 2 or 3 times a day, you are not going to get rock bottom commissions; but, it doesn't mean you need to overpay as well. I personally would recommend the following futures brokers: Mirus Futures http://www.mirusfutures.com ProActive Futures http://www.proactivefutures.com Open ECry http://www.openecry.com Also - as you trade more, make sure you are still receiving good rates. Brokers are good at giving you a rate to get your busines NOW, but very few (if any) review your account to see if you qualify for better rates. So, every so often as your volume and activity increases, be sure to test the waters again. Most often, you can simply get your current broker to lower rates if they know you may change. Negotiating commission rates is just part of the business as far as I am concerned. If you are not doing this, you may be overpaying!

Good point drk - a trading account of $2500 trading E-Mini's is more than likely eventually going to be blown out.

Pivot - my observation on this would be that your stop is too far to begin with. Stops are there to take you out at the very point that you are wrong. If your stop is 15 ticks and at 12 you know you are wrong, then your stop should have been placed at 12, not 15 in my opinion. For me, and I've mentioned this before - I am not wrong until my stop is hit. That's it. My stop must be taken out before I know I am wrong on the trade. That's the purpose of protective stop losses. They stop a loss from becoming larger. The reason for this is simple - unfortunately not every trade is immediately in profit. Sometimes the trade is in the red for a few moments and then moves in my direction. As long as the stop is not taken out, this is a great trade in the end. Of course we all want to be in the profit immediately, but that's not realistic.

Walter - allow me to share one piece of advice I received awhile back when trading - there is no way perfect way to trade. What works for you, may not work for others. Point being - you cannot say that one way of trading is 'foolish'. That's just completely inaccurate. For example - the argument can be made that if you go for +10 on the YM, why can't you re-enter the trade again if it indeed moves the 30 pts you quote. Just b/c it may have taken 2-3 trades to capture profits vs. one, that trader is just as profitable minus the tiny commission. However, that same trader is constantly taking profits and that can do wonders for your psyche. Just keep in mind that when you reply to threads, you are providing your opinion. And while you are entitled to it, calling people or ideas foolish is indeed, foolish. Just b/c you don't like it or agree, doesn't mean it can't or won't work. As my high school math teacher used to always say - there's more than one way to skin a cat. (I have no idea why that quote has stuck with me for so many years. It's rather disgusting, but proves the point.)

King - I think wsam has it for you. Either you have to accept this or change it. It really comes down to testing multiple stop movement setups and see what works best for you over time. Nothing is bullet proof. Here's what I found. Either: Take trades going for a 'smaller' profit target with multiple trades Take trades looking to catch the bigger moves and a lower amount of trades Now, once you decide on what type of trader you are, that can help dictate what type of stop movement you use. For example - if you decide that you want smaller profits but multiple trades, then you should be aggressive with your stop movement or simply exit at a predetermined profit target. Or you can be 'generous' with your stop looking to catch the bigger move. I have found that it's very, very difficult to catch the bigger move and have an aggressive stop. The chance for a small retracement is just too strong, unless of course trading around econ news. Just keep in mind that while I am sure you will get some good advice here, you have to test and prove to yourself what is best for you. Sorry to sound like a broken record, but I really believe in proving a strategy to yourself. We can provide guidance here, but until you are on board, it's going to have a hard time working.

Winfred - that's partly why I suggested a BE minus 2 setup. Trading is hard enough as it is and when you turn a 'winner' into a tiny, tiny win it will really mess with your psyche as you saw with your ag trades. Good Trading!

Robert - like Soul said, you just need to pay attention to the DOM and your chart. Knowing the exact date of rollover is not important if you simply follow your charts and make sure your DOM reflects that chart. Volume will start to pick up on the forward contract before the current contract expires, so you will always be moving with the highest volume contract. I understand you want the details on dates and rollovers, but if you day trade, that is not important. What's important is trading the contract with the highest volume currently.

Here's what I do: TS is always set to @YM My T4 (order entry software, not to be confused with TS) will also automatically roll once the contract is no longer being traded. Sometimes, my T4 still shows an 'old' contract simply b/c it is not expired yet, but you'll be able to tell real quick if your TS chart does not match your DOM. Keep in mind that when you go to the new contract, very rarely are the prices identical to the old contract. In other words, if you set TS to roll with the @ sign, and you forget to move your DOM, when you go to place a trade on the DOM, the price level showing on your current chart will probably not be the current price on your DOM. As soon as that happens, a trigger in your head needs to go off. It should not make sense. That should tell you that your DOM may need to be bumped ahead a contract. For example, right now my @YM chart is at 12,694. Now, if you go ahead on the YM chart to YMM07, the current price is 12,795. So, if I was by mistake trying to place a trade on the wrong DOM, something doesn't add up - why is the DOM off by 100 points? Well, it's the wrong DOM. I don't trade on TS, so I'm not sure how their order entry software works.

Winfred, I used to think that like as well - just get my trade to a positive position in the worse case scenario!! That can do wonders for your psyche. Here's the catch ... Moving that stop is so easy and tempting that many of my trades were being taken out at +1 tick and these were later 'winners'. In other words, I turned a +10 pt trade into a +1. That will also do wonders for your psyche. So, as I've tried to say over and over here, each trader must do what's best for their pysche and trading account. I can't do the BE+1 trade, it doesn't work for me. If you can get it to work and make money, that's great!!!

Robert - if you are using TS, just put @YM as your symbol and it will move automatically to the contract with the highest volume at the time (which is where you want to be trading in my opinion). Same thing for the other indexes - @NQ, @ES, @EC etc etc You can also do this in TS - go to Symbol lookup, Custom Futures and then pick and chose your options there. I prefer the @ sign, much easier. If you trade off of something different than TS, which I do, you will easily see if your DOM is matching your chart.

I would suggest one thing guys - make sure you test this theory before putting it into play. It's easy to find trades where this would have worked, but I am sure you can find trades where it took you out prematurely. I toyed with the exact same thing you guys are and found for me it did not work. The reason being that it's very realistic for a trade to move in your favor, retrace a tad (and take your stop) and the continue the move in the direction of your trade. That happens a couple times to you and you will rethink this. I've found that I need to give a trade 'wiggle' room. It's too easy for an aggressive stop to be ticked out. One thing you may want to consider - BE MINUS 2. The theory behind this being that if the price comes past your entry point, then you are wrong and want out. The price moving to BE + 1 does not prove that you were wrong, which is the point of a stop. Just an idea. And of course the other consideration here is that if the majority of your trades move to +7 or +8 and then retrace, perhaps it's time to adjust your profit target. Is 2 ticks worth taking heat on a trade and losing or making 1 tick before commissions? I don't know, you need to answer that.

I agree wsam, it's not necessary to sit in front of the computer all day, no doubt. But, as you said, to be looking for other business opp's, while trading and working is a bit much to be doing all at once. Basically King, the options for 'passive' money are: 1) Conservative - savings, checking, cd's, money markets, etc. 2) Moderate - mutual funds, etf's 3) Aggressive - all those great online opp's out there In each of these situations, you turn your money over and someone else does something with it, whether it is 1) a bank 2) a fund manager or 3) a scammer. There's probably other things that could fit in here, but here are the basics with very low minimums, if any.