[ezduzzit]

Hrrumpff! The swing and position traders I know who thought they were well prepared to trade intraday have usually had their heads handed to them by the market in fairly short order. It's just not quite the same game despite the promotions by many system sellers to the contrary. One man's price action is another man's order flow, if you get the drift. It is not simply a matter of scaling down. The same instrument trades quite differently intraday than it does weekly or monthly. Can some make the transition? Sure.. but experience in one is certainly no assurance of success in the other.

Happy Trading

[ducati998]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

Are you convinced that learning to trade weekly timeframes will prepare you to trade 5 minute or lower timeframes?

No not at all.
However if you can trade profitably in this [or any higher timeframe] I would place your chances much higher of being successful in the daytrading zone.

If you cannot trade profitably in higher timeframes, why would you expect any different in a lower timeframe?

As markets are fractal in their technical composition, extending the timeframe has the effect of diminishing the effects of noise [noise being volume] that are distracting rather than helpful.

You will also find [in stocks] that price is not a reliable "indicator" at all.
If you use $Flow there will be numerous examples of price falling [rising] while $Flow goes highly positive [negative].

jog on
d998

[Dr Who]

Originally Posted by ducati998 »

No not at all.
However if you can trade profitably in this [or any higher timeframe] I would place your chances much higher of being successful in the daytrading zone.

If you cannot trade profitably in higher timeframes, why would you expect any different in a lower timeframe?

As markets are fractal in their technical composition, extending the timeframe has the effect of diminishing the effects of noise [noise being volume] that are distracting rather than helpful.

You will also find [in stocks] that price is not a reliable "indicator" at all.
If you use $Flow there will be numerous examples of price falling [rising] while $Flow goes highly positive [negative].

jog on
d998

Duc,

I agree here. $$flowing opposite to price.

[weiwei]

From my personal experience, any one new to trading will need to look at trading with a complete approach. In other word conditions that will effect your of trading. Anything what would have a effect to your bottom line should be included. And after you start to list out all the conditons, it can get really complicted.

But this is reality, any one who want to get into trading will need to iron out all these condition before you can be a consistant trader.

Let me present a model on this.

Internal factor: the famous 3M from Dr. Elder
1. Mind
2. Money
3. Method

How about External factor, things that is not directly related to trading, but will have an impact on you.

1.Family issue. Spouse, children and other relatives.
2.Supporting - emotional and finacial
3.others- health, car issue or any another issue that needs your immediate attention.

One live example: One moning phone ring, my wife's friend colleage got into an accident at 7:30 AM Eastern Time, and she wanted my wife to take her to work. But my wife has already left, so out of good well, I offered to help her. I thought this will be fast and easy, and I would have time to get back to my desk before 9:30. But it turned out to be a lot works. Not only I have to help her deal with police, took her to work, I also have to take her to car rental company to get a rental car.

By the time I got back to my desk it is 9:40, ER2 gap up and run up for 6 points. Plus other things from daily chart, condition of this kind do not happen a lot, but when it did it is very good bet that gap will be closed. Meaning $600 in profit per contract.

But since I rushed back, I was not prepared to take this one, so I had to let it get by. Worst yet, got mad at this, I start to took trade that dose not have good bases, and end up losing big that day.

Then at end of month when I look back, that day was the deterministic day for the month. Had I been able to take that setup, I would have a good month. and it end up to be an none-performaning month.

things like this will have big effects on your psychology. I know it had on me. I resent the fact that her call was so perfect, right at day and time the setup happened. Had it been another other day or time, I would have known how to deal with it. And how about all the good trades that I missed during the time that I have this emotion issue.

Worst yet, I can't even talk about this, because I know people would think that you should help her, so what are you complain about. But the frustration is there, I will have to channel it out in some way. It took me long time to recover from this incident.

And guess what, this is just one of those many "unexpected" external conditions that happened.

If you are an individual who would like to get into this trading business, then you must take all these factors into consideration.

Slowly you will progress with better emotion, and with persistance, eventually you will finish all your courses, and graduate from the trading university.

I will talk more about trading in the Internal factors in my next post.

Have a nice Journey.


weiwei


PS: notice that i said progress, because as for me, controling emotion never work for me, but understanding myself and progress out of it has.

[torero]

So if you understood yourself and cannot control your emotion, how or what did you get your trading change for the better? I see these 2 problem intertwined.

Here's the example, shrinks identify the problem and make that known to the patient. But that's the first step, the 2nd step is to change the behavior to get rid of the problem because recognizing oneself is not enough.

[weiwei]

lol, Torero, You are one step ahead of me. that is why I said there is more on this post.


But, I have to said, understand in here means understand one's current status totally, then one can make a better choice.

for example: one might not have a problem, but do have limitation on an area. Or the problem can not get rid of, but can be contained. As one dig deeper, all of suddent, there are many many options.

In college, if one do not do well in math, he/she usually will not try to be an engineer or any major that requires a lot math courses. But he/she can still get an degree in other area.

I believe one who has better understanding of the complete picture, and know the necessary steps to take to get there is the one who will have better chance to be successful in life, not just trading.

The way I look at it is that trading is like getting a college degree. there are many courses that one have to learn and many exams one have to pass to move on to next class. Then when all is completed. You will be awarded with a degree.

But unless you get all completed, you will get none.

What makes hard in trading is that there is really no clear way to do it. No one is laying a course outline for you. You are pretty much on your own, and have to figure out every thing out yourself. And that is what makes hard in trading. So many options and one can easily get lost with all those choices.

I will discuss more in next post.

[weiwei]

I have discussed about Internal and external factors regarding with trading. this one will be on the exernal factors that traders have to deal with.

To make it sample, it all come down to this.

One must be in good harmoney with his/her surrounding.

Reason is sample, you do not want those external factors to distrub you to a point that you subconsciosly take it out on the market or lost your focus during trading.

But some time, things do happen. then knowing how to deal with it is the key to maintain that peace of mind.

my next post will start with the fun thing on the 3M, money, method and mind.


weiwei.

[weiwei]

1st part of 3M - Money.

In this post, I would not discuss how much money you need to start trading, rather I will give you my view and opinion on it.

If you ask this question with the intention to learn, and not to make money, then you do not need a lot. Since you are here alreay at TL, you can look at all different articles, learn how other trades, pick up a method that suits you, and join the chat room here or else where to see how people trade.

But if you ask the question with intention to make money, then I said you need a lot, and you will have a very tough time ahead of you. Any you would not make much money with trading.

Why? Because you focus your attentions and energy on the wrong area that would not produce for you.

Money is the end result or product of one's efforts. You would have to put your efforts on the cause that will trun into the result or product. In this case money.

Now do you see why if you are new and have the intention to make money in trading will be fruitless. All because your energy will be spend on the area not would not produce.

So what wil produce. processes..

Image if you are a farmer, to get your crops, what do you have to do? you will have to do all the things necessary for it to grow, and if you miss one step, then you might not have that crops. Missing 2 steps, that crops might never make it.

It is when you master all the steps, knowing what to do at each stage, you will then have the chance to turn that crops into food. (I said chance because there might be external factors that whip out the crops, like storms and others).

So how much money do you need to trade, in my opinion is all relative. If you take the farmer's approach you will reach a stage that you know exactly how much you need to produce.