Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

raymondmanny

Is Tape Reading a Myth ?

Recommended Posts

Hi ,

 

I just bought the 3 Jigsaw sofwares en December 2012 and want to share my experience.

 

After 2 years of webinars and research to improve my setups by probing various indicators and

techniques (name it, I know it) I began Tape reading.

But tape reading with the DOM and the Time and sales (NinjaTrader) is not an easy task.

 

I developed a technique which seemed efficient on the Emini-ES , but only in the night

session. I used the NinjaTrader replay accelerated mode and had mostly winners ( 9 of 10)

The night session is very slow and I never tried to trade it live;

and in the day session I couldn’t follow, the game was to fast….

 

One day I investigated Jigsaw Trading and I immediately saw that this 3 softwares were unique and would allow me to follow and anticipate the day session movements in the short term.

I viewed some No BS trading free videos, observed my 3 softwares in action and began to understand something.

I am a Beginner and I mostly win my one tick on the SIM (live) trade ( Emini -ZB ).

 

I bought the software the 19 of December 2012 and I am very pleased to see that it is really possible to anticipate the order flow in the very short term. But that is enough to make a few ticks.

 

So I am going to improve my technique and when the time comes I shall trade live…

 

I am not a seller but an enthusiastic Trader

 

Have a nice day,

Raymond Manny

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I use market orders when the move seems very strong and limit orders in the other cases.

 

I would be very interested to know how NinjaTrader fills limit orders on the SIM.

It is my broker's real time SIM and not NinjaTrader's SIM.

 

Thank you,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

 

I use market orders when the move seems very strong and limit orders in the other cases.

 

I would be very interested to know how NinjaTrader fills limit orders on the SIM.

It is my broker's real time SIM and not NinjaTrader's SIM.

 

Thank you,

 

Raymond Manny.

 

Hi Raymond,

 

If you use market orders you pay the spread each time, and any sim will show this, so your results should be fairly accurate provided the market is liquid. If the market is illiquid then the sim will struggle to show where you would have been filled. Try trading the futures contract J7 with a volume subpane to get a feel for what I mean - your sim will fill you at prices where only a single contract (someone else's, not yours!) traded. In reality you'd have suffered massive slippage.

 

The ES is sufficiently liquid, even outside of RTH, that I doubt this will be an issue.

 

If you use limit orders the sim will do one of the following, depending on how you have set it up:

 

1. Fills when price trades at the limit

2. Fill when price trades through the limit

3. Fills when a certain volume of orders have traded at the limit

 

Which of these is good? None of them. The first two are those typically used; the first will give you a far better performance than you'd actually get, while the second will give you a significantly worse (by an amount that will suprise you) result than you'd actually achieve.

 

Most platforms default to the first, as it gives you the illusion that you can trade better than you can, which means you'll make more for your broker when you move from sim to live trading. I know that the Infinity Futures / TransACT platform definitely defaults to the second approach. I am sure NinjaTrader support will be able to tell advise you regarding their platform.

 

To get an accurate representation of what would happen in real trading you need:

 

1. A method of estimating your position in the queue of limit orders resting on the exchanges books.

 

2. An automated method of executing orders in sim according to this estimation (this does not mean that your strategy needs to be automated - you can still trade on a discretionary basis - the automation will just control what happens after you've placed your order).

 

The first of these is not easy to arrive at.

 

BlueHorseshoe

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

 

Hi Raymond,

 

I can program to an reasonable standard, but I doubt that I would term myself a programmer. In terms of the challenges identfied in my post, in fact, the answer was not to try and program my way out of them (though I have absolutely no doubt that this is possible for those, as SIUYA puts it, "with more PhDs than assholes"), but to elevate myself above them by trading in higher timeframes. If you're gunning for an average profit per trade of $500 then you can afford to pay the market price and, should you lose money, be sure that it has nothing to do with unfilled orders and everything to do with you trading approach.

 

What I would say, if it's working for you 'on the ground' so to speak, is to continue but have a clear plan for what you will do if you run into difficulties.

 

Best of luck!

 

BlueHorseshoe

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The sad thing is that most people will look at that video and think 'oh that seems hard' or 'that style isn't for me'..... that's pure naivety through and through. If you're going to day trade, using the order flow on the DOM is the only way to trade if you're planning on trading for a living. If you go down on the floor of the various exchanges, you'll see all the locals trading like that. If you go onto the trading floor of any half decent prop firm, it's pretty much how everyone trades. All you see is a sea of DOM'S. If you don't accept that as a day trader you might as well quit and save yourself a lot of money and pain.

 

When I see threads like 'Is Anyone Make Money From Day Trading' - The answer is, if you're retail who's hell bent thinking they can apply technical analysis to day trading then no, you're not making a penny, or haven't made any consistent money for a few years. If you're going to go down the the road of applying technical analysis to day trading then you're literally just going to be handing all your money to the professionals and those who understand day trading is about the DOM. Ignore this advice at your own risk.

 

Here are some pictures of trading floors just from google image, you'll see DOM'S are what traders are starring at for their trades....

 

Big screens with the doms up at the CME exchange

?m=02&d=20080724&t=2&i=5302690&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2008-07-24T154249Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_0_BUSINESSPROIND-CFTC-OIL-DC

 

?m=02&d=20110315&t=2&i=363007928&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-15T093005Z_01_BTRE72E0QE700_RTROPTP_0_MARKETS-STOCKS

 

ostc-poland-warsaw-office-trading-floor.jpg

 

F1.large.jpg

 

 

partner.jpg&h=280&w=610&zc=1

 

Traders4.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Raymon,

 

Your limit orders were not filled on SIM due to your entry price not having been penetrated. While this is not always true in LIVE trading, it is true in SIM if your platform setup looks for price penetration before a fill. Price touch will not work but penetration by at least one tick is required.

 

COTtrader "Ken"

 

Hi,

 

I noticed that when I traded SIM with limit orders that I wasn’t necessarily filled when the price met the limit, nor at the second nor necessarily at the third. Sometimes I wasn’t filled at all and I cancelled the order. In that case a market order would have been necessary to not miss the trade.

But that is not a problem.

I used this technique live with the help of my indicators before tape reading. It worked well but when you have 3 winners and one loser you are even. So you work very hard for your broker’s pockets…

But reading the tape gives me better entries and I shall learn to use that skill for my exits also.

I am not in a hurry to lose my money so I observe and go on improving.

 

Thank you for your knowledge, are you a programmer ?

 

Have a nice day,

 

Raymond Manny.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I make money daily trading technical. Here is February 6 - premarket and open.

 

4 wins and 1 loss. Draw down is nearly non-existent. Stop loss is 4 ticks max.

 

These are not scalp trades but solid winners!

 

COTtrader

 

The sad thing is that most people will look at that video and think 'oh that seems hard' or 'that style isn't for me'..... that's pure naivety through and through. If you're going to day trade, using the order flow on the DOM is the only way to trade if you're planning on trading for a living. If you go down on the floor of the various exchanges, you'll see all the locals trading like that. If you go onto the trading floor of any half decent prop firm, it's pretty much how everyone trades. All you see is a sea of DOM'S. If you don't accept that as a day trader you might as well quit and save yourself a lot of money and pain.

 

When I see threads like 'Is Anyone Make Money From Day Trading' - The answer is, if you're retail who's hell bent thinking they can apply technical analysis to day trading then no, you're not making a penny, or haven't made any consistent money for a few years. If you're going to go down the the road of applying technical analysis to day trading then you're literally just going to be handing all your money to the professionals and those who understand day trading is about the DOM. Ignore this advice at your own risk.

 

Here are some pictures of trading floors just from google image, you'll see DOM'S are what traders are starring at for their trades....

 

Big screens with the doms up at the CME exchange

?m=02&d=20080724&t=2&i=5302690&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2008-07-24T154249Z_01_NOOTR_RTRIDSP_0_BUSINESSPROIND-CFTC-OIL-DC

 

?m=02&d=20110315&t=2&i=363007928&w=460&fh=&fw=&ll=&pl=&r=2011-03-15T093005Z_01_BTRE72E0QE700_RTROPTP_0_MARKETS-STOCKS

 

ostc-poland-warsaw-office-trading-floor.jpg

 

F1.large.jpg

 

 

partner.jpg&h=280&w=610&zc=1

 

Traders4.jpg

ES_Wins.thumb.png.f3a98e44c591d5ab3332366f850d27eb.png

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Agreed since some of the new traders usually lose money in start and some loses more while chasing their lost money and eventually ends up blaming to their brokers part.
    • The crypto market are also in phase of maturing like the forex and other trading assets so we can do much more accurate analysis than before since early days it was purely a luck if the investments in crypto bears results because most of the coins or tokens never come to fruition. Some early birds were also able to make profits on these tokens or coins. e,g., like turtle coin starts with 1 satoshi and go up to 7 sathoshis, quite good rewards. another token lmgx now hovering at 10 started from 1, 
    • How's about other crypto exchanges? Are all they banned in your country or only Binance?
    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.