Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

russellhq

Risk of Ruin Discussion

Recommended Posts

I'm continually astonished and amused by people who convince themselves that mentioning how successful or how much money they have made trading will somehow add validity/credence/weight to their comments. In reality, it does the exact opposite and it wreaks of desperation. Everyone knows there is no way to prove such claims...so it's pointless to make them, even if it were true. A little bit more effort in figuring out a way to make or emphasize a point without reverting to such a tactic would result in better discussions, imo.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Gosu, your post did indeed push some buttons, I found it dismissive and insulting and replied in kind. I don't feel good about that. Never mind, I appreciate the way you have responded.

 

I don't make any claim to be good. I have been successful, and I have made some fairly significant sums but, like you, it has not been a smooth road, and I am only too aware of my trading weaknesses, which I have to pay constant attention to. I certainly don't sneeze at making a million, I think it is a tremendous achievement, I'm also proud of having done it. I just didn't like the apparent assumption that you could beat me round the head with it.

 

I think we all need to be proud of our achievements -- there has to some reward other than just monetary. I had a great year in my last 12-month accounting period July-to-July -- 65%+ return on a fairly significant account with less than 6% drawdown, 11 winning months and the one losing month closed at less than one tenth of one percent down, trading daily charts. I'm proud of that, but already in my new 12-month period I am down with a nasty streak of losing trades. The markets have a way of humbling us and reminding us of reality. I don't know the future, but I do have a clearly-defined set of rules to deal with the present, and the only thing I know is that the current and recent performance of my system is still within the parameters of normality, so my job is to trade through the drawdown.

 

We all have to find a way to trade that allows us to sleep at night -- to suit our trading personality, as they say. For me, the only way is to focus on risk. To find the appropriate balance between risk and return within my system, and to know exactly the point where my system has undergone abnormal loss -- and know in advance what I will do about that. That alone is not an insignificant task and, for me, may well be the most important one. At that point, I have a plan which covers both the expected and the unexpected, and I have done everything I know to understand and manage my risk.

 

You're obviously trading in a completely different way -- and you're obviously doing great with that. You're prepared to risk blowing out an account in exchange for whatever your expected return is. I can't do that.

 

I would however disagree with this: your previous post said that you wouldn't have made your first million any quicker if you employed risk management. I think perhaps you would -- because your most recent post says that you blew out two futures accounts, one fairly sizeable. Some appropriate form of risk management would almost certainly have helped you avoid the pain of a blown out account and therefore may well have helped you to make your first million quicker...

 

Congratulations on great performance, and good luck...

 

Thanks for the thorough and thoughtful post. Also thanks for sharing your recent performance results. I'm always interested to see the results of skilled traders and how they think about their approach to trading.

 

Judging by your use of a fiscal year, I can surmise that you manage OPM, which is something I avoid entirely. That likely explains a lot of the difference in our approaches and the stats we keep.

 

As you know, my approach is discretionary, directional trading. I do not trade with preset loss parameters as you do, yet I do not consider myself a risk taker at all. I am a believer in avoiding risk and taking the low hanging fruit first prior to looking for additional opportunities. I see the market's risk/reward diagram as a scatter of points all over the graph rather than an upwardly sloping regression line with rising risk for rising reward. There are times when there is essentially no risk to extract. I call this "free money." There are also times when risk of loss is high with little available to extract unless I guess the subsequent direction correctly. I call these times "centering" and "dry up" and I am sidelined during these times because trading is not a 50/50 game to me. In between these two extremes there are various opportunities which I have been able to differentiate over the years and train myself to act accordingly when they are presented. There are still many market positions I have yet to differentiate but I am still relatively young and have many market repetitions ahead of me to learn.

 

I am describing the above as a reply to your assertion that I am prepared to risk blowing out an account to trade the way I do. Because trading is performance based, I cannot rule out the possibility. But I do know that I am only getting better the longer I trade.

 

With regard to whether applying "risk management" could have avoided my early losses, I would say that I knew at the time that "risk management" was very important and meant always having a stop loss in place and taking my losses without exception. What that got me was a disheartening grinding down of my account. I found that rather than having set stops, "scaling" in to trades achieved far better results. I would have a long string of positive days and felt that I was finally on to something until a trade came along to wipe out the gains of prior weeks and even months.

 

I no longer concern myself over "risk management", but strive to stay on the right side of the market at all times and sideline when the right side is not clear to me. Entry price is irrelevant. The lone exception is when the right side immediately becomes unclear after entry and I look to "wash" the trade with costs.

 

If I am sounding like I never record a "loss", I want to dispel that notion. I'm always working on cutting down my losses due to stubbornness, laziness, boredom, euphoria, etc., otherwise known as human errors, which always seem to be there lurking underneath the surface.

 

Cheers and continued success to you.

Edited by gosu

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Gosu, your trading methodology sounds very like mine.

 

Judging by your use of a fiscal year, I can surmise that you manage OPM, which is something I avoid entirely...

 

Actually, I don't trade OPM. Having the freedom to record my results any way I like, I have simply started with the date of first trade I placed using my current system, and organized the trades into 12-month periods from that start date, rather than having an orphan period of something less than a year at the beginning. As far as risk-aversion, it's just that I am not so young and a lot of work has gone into building my trading capital, which I would not care to attempt to repeat.

 

I see the market's risk/reward diagram as a scatter of points all over the graph rather than an upwardly sloping regression line with rising risk for rising reward.

I agree with your view of risk. The only circumstance under which I would view it is a rising regression line is in relation to position sizing where, clearly, one is taking on proportionately more risk with larger size. UNLESS... you create your position by scaling in -- which is another matter altogether, and which is also at the heart of my methodology...

 

There are times when there is essentially no risk to extract.

I also look to identify and isolate those moments when risk is statistically minimal although, in my case, I wouldn't call it discretionary because I have reduced everything to rules.

 

I found that rather than having set stops, "scaling" in to trades achieved far better results.

Couldn't agree more. I also use scaling in, and I don't use set stops either.

 

I am more discretionary on exits. Although I do have a system indication for an exit point, I am aware that this is designed to catch a certain move and is not something which is guaranteed to unfold according to the numbers. Consequently, if it appears to me that the move has occurred without quite getting to the calculated exit point, I will watch and weigh the diminishing risk:reward and act accordingly. I have been able to 'beat' the results from the system exits fairly consistently as I get better at this.

 

So, perhaps we trade in a more similar fashion than it seemed initially!

 

Good luck for the future...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 11th July 2025.   Demand For Gold Rises As Trump Announces Tariffs!   Gold prices rose significantly throughout the week as investors took advantage of the 2.50% lower entry level. Investors also return to the safe-haven asset as the US trade policy continues to escalate. As a result, investors are taking a more dovish tone. The ‘risk-off’ appetite is also something which can be seen within the stock market. The NASDAQ on Thursday took a 0.90% dive within only 30 minutes.   Trade Tensions Escalate President Trump has been teasing with new tariffs throughout the week. However, the tariffs were confirmed on Thursday. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports starting August 1st, along with 50% tariffs on copper and goods from Brazil. Some experts are advising that Brazil has been specifically targeted due to its association with the BRICS.   However, the President has not directly associated the tariffs with BRICS yet. According to President Trump, Brazil is targeting US technology companies and carrying out a ‘witch hunt’against former Brazilian President Jair Bolsonaro, a close ally who is currently facing prosecution for allegedly attempting to overturn the 2022 Brazilian election.   Although Brazil is one of the largest and fastest-growing economies in the Americas, it is not the main concern for investors. Investors are more concerned about Tariffs on Canada. The White House said it will impose a 35% tariff on Canadian imports, effective August 1st, raised from the earlier 25% rate. This covers most goods, with exceptions under USMCA and exemptions for Canadian companies producing within the US.   It is also vital for investors to note that Canada is among the US;’s top 3 trading partners. The increase was justified by Trump citing issues like the trade deficit, Canada’s handling of fentanyl trafficking, and perceived unfair trade practices.   The President is also threatening new measures against the EU. These moves caused US and European stock futures to fall nearly 1%, while the Dollar rose and commodity prices saw small gains. However, the main benefactor was Silver and Gold, which are the two best-performing metals of the day.   How Will The Fed Impact Gold? The FOMC indicated that the number of members warming up to the idea of interest rate cuts is increasing. If the Fed takes a dovish tone, the price of Gold may further rise. In the meantime, the President pushing for a 3% rate cut sparked talk of a more dovish Fed nominee next year and raised worries about future inflation.   Meanwhile, jobless claims dropped for the fourth straight week, coming in better than expected and supporting the view that the labour market remains strong after last week’s solid payroll report. Markets still expect two rate cuts this year, but rate futures show most investors see no change at the next Fed meeting. Gold is expected to finish the week mostly flat.       Gold 15-Minute Chart     If the price of Gold increases above $3,337.50, buy signals are likely to materialise again. However, the price is currently retracing, meaning traders are likely to wait for regained momentum before entering further buy trades. According to HSBC, they expect an average price of $3,215 in 2025 (up from $3,015) and $3,125 in 2026, with projections showing a volatile range between $3,100 and $3,600   Key Takeaway Points: Gold Rises on Safe-Haven Demand. Gold gained as investors reacted to rising trade tensions and market volatility. Canada Tariffs Spark Concern. A 35% tariff on Canadian imports drew attention due to Canada’s key trade role. Fed Dovish Shift Supports Gold. Growing expectations of rate cuts and Trump’s push for a 3% cut boosted the gold outlook. Gold Eyes Breakout Above $3,337.5. Price is consolidating; a move above $3,337.50 could trigger new buy signals. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business.   Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report.   Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar.   Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding of how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE!   Click HERE to READ more Market news.   Michalis Efthymiou HFMarkets   Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in Leveraged Products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • Back in the early 2000s, Netflix mailed DVDs to subscribers.   It wasn’t sexy—but it was smart. No late fees. No driving to Blockbuster.   People subscribed because they were lazy. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone else is lazy too.   Those who saw the future in that red envelope? They could’ve caught a 10,000%+ move.   Another story…   Back in the mid-2000s, Amazon launched Prime.   It wasn’t flashy—but it was fast.   Free two-day shipping. No minimums. No hassle.   People subscribed because they were impatient. Investors bought the stock because they realized everyone hates waiting.   Those who saw the future in that speedy little yellow button? They could’ve caught another 10,000%+ move.   Finally…   Back in 2011, Bitcoin was trading under $10.   It wasn’t regulated—but it worked.   No bank. No middleman. Just wallet to wallet.   People used it to send money. Investors bought it because they saw the potential.   Those who saw something glimmering in that strange orange coin? They could’ve caught a 100,000%+ move.   The people who made those calls weren’t fortune tellers. They just noticed something simple before others did.   A better way. A quiet shift. A small edge. An asymmetric bet.   The red envelope fixed late fees. The yellow button fixed waiting. The orange coin gave billions a choice.   Of course, these types of gains are rare. And they happen only once in a blue moon. That’s exactly why it’s important to notice when the conditions start to look familiar.   Not after the move. Not once it's on CNBC. But in the quiet build-up— before the surface breaks.   Enter the Blue Button Please read more here: https://altucherconfidential.com/posts/netflix-amazon-bitcoin-blue  Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/ 
    • What These Attacks Look Like There are several ways you could get hacked. And the threats compound by the day.   Here’s a quick rundown:   Phishing: Fake emails from your “bank.” Click the link, give your password—game over.   Ransomware: Malware that locks your files and demands crypto. Pay up, or it’s gone.   DDoS: Overwhelm a website with traffic until it crashes. Like 10,000 bots blocking the door. Often used by nations.   Man-in-the-Middle: Hackers intercept your messages on public WiFi and read or change them.   Social Engineering: Hackers pose as IT or drop infected USB drives labeled “Payroll.”   You don’t need to be “important” to be a target.   You just need to be online.   What You Can Do (Without Buying a Bunker) You don’t have to be tech-savvy.   You just need to stop being low-hanging fruit.   Here’s how:   Use a YubiKey (physical passkey device) or Authenticator app – Ditch text message 2FA. SIM swaps are real. Hackers often have people on the inside at telecom companies.   Use a password manager (with Yubikey) – One unique password per account. Stop using your dog’s name.   Update your devices – Those annoying updates patch real security holes. Use them.   Back up your files – If ransomware hits, you don’t want your important documents held hostage.   Avoid public WiFi for sensitive stuff – Or use a VPN.   Think before you click – Emails that feel “urgent” are often fake. Go to the websites manually for confirmation.   Consider Starlink in case the internet goes down – I think it’s time for me to make the leap. Don’t Panic. Prepare. (Then Invest.)   I spent an hour in that basement bar reading about cyberattacks—and watching real-world systems fall apart like dominos.   The internet going down used to be an inconvenience. Now, it’s a warning.   Cyberwar isn’t coming. It’s here.   And the next time your internet goes out, it might not just be your router.   Don’t panic. Prepare.   And maybe keep a backup plan in your back pocket. Like a local basement bar with good bourbon—and working WiFi.   As usual, we’re on the lookout for more opportunities in cybersecurity. Stay tuned.   Author: Chris Campbell (AltucherConfidential) Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/   
    • DUMBSHELL:  re the automation of corruption ---  200,000 "Science Papers" in academic journal database PubMed may have been AI-generated with errors, hallucinations and false sourcing 
    • Does any crypto exchanges get banned in your country? How's about other as Bybit, Kraken, MEXC, OKX?
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.