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zdo

What Psychologists ?

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well its a damm sit better than going to the local accountant who says - oh that advice I gave you a few months back, and charged you for...well the government wants their taxes now, and I want to get paid......- how do you feel?

 

(for all the Australians out there old enough - remember the Tooheys adds - how do you feel?)

 

Plus Rande I do hope you realise my post was tongue in cheek.........

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well its a damm sit better than going to the local accountant who says - oh that advice I gave you a few months back, and charged you for...well the government wants their taxes now, and I want to get paid......- how do you feel?

 

(for all the Australians out there old enough - remember the Tooheys adds - how do you feel?)

 

Plus Rande I do hope you realise my post was tongue in cheek.........

 

Maybe I'd go back to the bartender. At least what's she plying me with makes me feel better in the short term. Plus she may be feeding my male ego vicariously .....

 

Actually there is something important here. I work with a trader who is now taking Celexa (a mild SSRI). He tried earnestly to use use emotional regulation to manage worry with me, but this was not enough. We knew going in that emotional regulation by itself might not be enough. If you take a look at his developmental history, you'd see some serious emotional violence at a very young age. This got wired in to the circuitry of belief. When he grew up, he covered this sense of powerlessness by aggression as an investment banker -- and he did very well. And then came active trading with his own money. You know the rest of the story.

 

He had always been the alpha male, and in trading the markets with his own money, this very mindset turned against him. He had to face his own dark sense of powerfulness. Bottom line, without medication, he could not build the regulation skills needed to maintain emotion sobriety no matter how much he tried. The receptor sites simply were not there (brain development issue) for him to train. Now with the psychiatric end under management, he is able to build the emotional skill sets needed to manage mind while trading.

 

This is not a justification to medicate a trader's mind work of separating uncertainty from worry or fear and building a new mindset. My bias is clearly the opposite. But he's trading effectively now, so some can manage the pharmacy of the brain without outside intervention, others need help. Like with the Serentity Prayer, it's the wisdom to know the difference that we strive for.

 

Rande Howell

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re "Now with the psychiatric end under management, he is able to build the emotional skill sets needed to manage mind while trading. "

 

I don't know the exact situation but, in probabilities, Rande you may be deluding yourself on this one... best of luck with him anyway... never say never, etc...

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re "Now with the psychiatric end under management, he is able to build the emotional skill sets needed to manage mind while trading. "

 

I don't know the exact situation but, in probabilities, Rande you may be deluding yourself on this one... best of luck with him anyway... never say never, etc...

 

Could be, but don't think so. What matters is whether the interpretation provides an effective way of building a life. In studies where smoking cessation rates were compared between female groups that had started smoking during puberty (adolesence) and during college, those females that started smoking while in college were easily able to kick the habit. Not so with the puberty set. They found it extremely difficult to kick the habit.

 

During the maturation between childhood and adulthood, the brain is restructured and rerouted in a process called arborization. Because of the nicotine in the system of the developing brain, the receptor sites for self regulation (serotonin uptake receptor sites) simply were not developed as compared to the girls who started smoking after puberty. Smoking became wired in as a solution to self regulation of anxiety. This is exactly what the cigarette companies knew as they redeveloped Joe Camel, of Camel cigarettes, as a youthful brand. They had already killed my father's generation, my father included, so they were out to develop market.

 

The same process is found in AA. In the recovery movement, it is said that you never get over an addiction -- you just find an addiction that doesn't piss people off as much. So you go to an AA meeting and you find coffee (stimulent) and cigarettes (CNS depressant) being used to regulate the chemistry of the brain. Much better than before.

 

Behaviors can also be used to regulate the chemistry of mood. This is what the client was doing in the example I gave. Like I said, I have a powerful bias to developing self regulation as part of the skill sets any human being needs to have to work with the uncertainty of life. But, despite what I'd like to believe, I'd rather be effective.

 

In the case cited, he went through my emotional regulation training diligently -- and he still practices on a daily basis. And he credits it with helping to change the way he thinks in the uncertainty of the moment. But he did not respond the way the large majority do as they learn to self regulate fear and impulse.

 

Attachment is at the base of regulation. It's not that it can't overcome, it can. I'm a prime example of that. As crazy as my formative years were, the one thing I knew for sure was that I was loved. If you got that part, the rest is negotiable. Our prisons are filled with people who did not get this wired into their system. This guy did not get this most basic of human needs met. I know this guy well, he's now one of my best friends. He will never a sprinter in the world of emotional regulation, but with a small crutch, he can be on the playing field and has to work like crazy with what he's got. That's how he has learned to negotiate his life and trading. That's "fair".

 

Rande Howell

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hello Rande,

 

In your professional opinion, why do so many people have trouble handling the uncertainty of life when death is a certainty.

 

Cutting to the chase -- we are built to deny death to the very last moment. That is why so few are prepared to die (or therefore live fully). Yet, the Zen Masters, predicted the day of their death. Perspective changed at that moment.

 

Turned to trading, we seek certainty (as an illusion) because initially our brain will seek certainty. Letting go means changing. Anything but that our psychologically based brain thinks. Meanwhile the markets come and go like waves in seeming randomness. The guestion is not about predicting the waves. It is about riding them.

 

Rande Howell

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Cutting to the chase -- we are built to deny death to the very last moment. That is why so few are prepared to die (or therefore live fully). Yet, the Zen Masters, predicted the day of their death. Perspective changed at that moment.

 

Turned to trading, we seek certainty (as an illusion) because initially our brain will seek certainty. Letting go means changing. Anything but that our psychologically based brain thinks. Meanwhile the markets come and go like waves in seeming randomness. The guestion is not about predicting the waves. It is about riding them.

 

Rande Howell

 

"That is why so few are prepared to die (or therefore live fully)."

 

Profoundly accurate Rande ... I tip my hat to you

Before we can start living , we must al first accept our own mortality.

 

I deliberately wrote you a very open question to see what how you would reply.

Your reply is perfect in every way.

 

Thank you and good bye, it is time for me to move on.

 

kindest regards

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"That is why so few are prepared to die (or therefore live fully)."

 

Profoundly accurate Rande ... I tip my hat to you

Before we can start living , we must al first accept our own mortality.

 

I deliberately wrote you a very open question to see what how you would reply.

Your reply is perfect in every way.

 

Thank you and good bye, it is time for me to move on.

 

kindest regards

 

I'm not sure what this means. And I wish you well where ever your journey takes you. If I have assisted you in any way, then I have been blessed. Peace be with you.

 

Rande Howell

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I was prescribed BUPROPION recently, but have held off taking it, because I have been coming a long way with CBT and CPT. I am much more relaxed and confident replacing past irrational, distorted, thoughts, emotions/feelings, and beliefs with reasoned new thoughts and beliefs. As I understand it, these past emotions are reflected in, and while, dealing with trades. I have been reluctant to try it because of negative messages out there about medications. I am reconsidering giving it a try. It just may be what I need in combination with my new mind skills. My psychiatrist said it would give me more umph. I wanted to try something to help me to take action when I see opportunities. I will give myself another couple weeks before I start taking BUPROPION. It takes up to eight weeks before its full effects hits me. ( I wish I could try it one morning or week) There I go with habitual, All or None, Jumping to conclusions, emotional reasoning, disregarding important aspects, etc. It is so good for me to journal and recognize when I do this to myself. This is the tool I newly acquired to catch myself, decide to change, and start thinking properly with a more accurate interpretation of reality. (The truth)

 

 

Maybe I'd go back to the bartender. At least what's she plying me with makes me feel better in the short term. Plus she may be feeding my male ego vicariously .....

 

Actually there is something important here. I work with a trader who is now taking Celexa (a mild SSRI). He tried earnestly to use use emotional regulation to manage worry with me, but this was not enough. We knew going in that emotional regulation by itself might not be enough. If you take a look at his developmental history, you'd see some serious emotional violence at a very young age. This got wired in to the circuitry of belief. When he grew up, he covered this sense of powerlessness by aggression as an investment banker -- and he did very well. And then came active trading with his own money. You know the rest of the story.

 

He had always been the alpha male, and in trading the markets with his own money, this very mindset turned against him. He had to face his own dark sense of powerfulness. Bottom line, without medication, he could not build the regulation skills needed to maintain emotion sobriety no matter how much he tried. The receptor sites simply were not there (brain development issue) for him to train. Now with the psychiatric end under management, he is able to build the emotional skill sets needed to manage mind while trading.

 

This is not a justification to medicate a trader's mind work of separating uncertainty from worry or fear and building a new mindset. My bias is clearly the opposite. But he's trading effectively now, so some can manage the pharmacy of the brain without outside intervention, others need help. Like with the Serentity Prayer, it's the wisdom to know the difference that we strive for.

 

Rande Howell

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I was prescribed BUPROPION recently, but have held off taking it, because I have been coming a long way with CBT and CPT. I am much more relaxed and confident replacing past irrational, distorted, thoughts, emotions/feelings, and beliefs with reasoned new thoughts and beliefs. As I understand it, these past emotions are reflected in, and while, dealing with trades. I have been reluctant to try it because of negative messages out there about medications. I am reconsidering giving it a try. It just may be what I need in combination with my new mind skills. My psychiatrist said it would give me more umph. I wanted to try something to help me to take action when I see opportunities. I will give myself another couple weeks before I start taking BUPROPION. It takes up to eight weeks before its full effects hits me. ( I wish I could try it one morning or week) There I go with habitual, All or None, Jumping to conclusions, emotional reasoning, disregarding important aspects, etc. It is so good for me to journal and recognize when I do this to myself. This is the tool I newly acquired to catch myself, decide to change, and start thinking properly with a more accurate interpretation of reality. (The truth)

 

Medications are going to impact certain elements of an emotion and the state of mind that comes from the emotion. It will impact the feeling, or the subjective experience, of the emotion. This often gives people an edge in dealing with emotional nature. Medications will also impact the arousal aspect (the excititory element of an emotion). This can be a good thing because it can give you more control of the emotion sweeping you away. Medication will not impact the essential elements of meaning nor motivation. These are the most important aspects of our humanness and they hold the key to long term change. These are the elements that influence mind and action. My hope is that you are learning how to re-organize belief rather than just the cognitive distortions you mentioned here. I practiced for many years as a CBT therapist and have respect for the field. However I hold that it is belief bound by emotion is the key. Whereas in CBT the assumption is that emotion follows thought. You can disrupt thought (I certainly teach that), you can nab your cognitive distortions, and you debate the negative thinking -- but until you change the meaning of self that has fused with the emotion, the thinking will be a constant battle. Sooner or later you will still have to fight your inner demons.

 

Rande Howell

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Medications are going to impact certain elements of an emotion and the state of mind that comes from the emotion. It will impact the feeling, or the subjective experience, of the emotion. This often gives people an edge in dealing with emotional nature. Medications will also impact the arousal aspect (the excititory element of an emotion). This can be a good thing because it can give you more control of the emotion sweeping you away. Medication will not impact the essential elements of meaning nor motivation. These are the most important aspects of our humanness and they hold the key to long term change. These are the elements that influence mind and action. My hope is that you are learning how to re-organize belief rather than just the cognitive distortions you mentioned here. I practiced for many years as a CBT therapist and have respect for the field. However I hold that it is belief bound by emotion is the key. Whereas in CBT the assumption is that emotion follows thought. You can disrupt thought (I certainly teach that), you can nab your cognitive distortions, and you debate the negative thinking -- but until you change the meaning of self that has fused with the emotion, the thinking will be a constant battle. Sooner or later you will still have to fight your inner demons.

 

Rande Howell

 

"Reorganize belief" is a new term for me, but I think I am working on it by connecting my thinking process to my beliefs, which support my values, and meaningfulness and to serve a purpose. I had become disassociated from myself, others, my environments, and the world, without realizing the importance of connectedness being a support system in these areas. Now, I do not want to lose the momentum I am on. I need to write down and review (self talk) to insure I stay on this new path of growth. It is still a habit to feel lethargic if I don't stay on a schedule of exercise and good diet. I need to engage in activities (to live; to feel connected), but it takes money.

 

I can get the money I need to live a full life from trading, but when the opportunity to take a trade appears, it triggers a diffident state of mind. I have had an underlying belief that I will be begrudged by others if, and when they believe, that I have more money than most, and that it is easy to get it. I have to remind myself that have dispelled this old belief. That it is only some people who will begrudge me, and so what? In the past, I let others bother me in this negative way. (On an implicit level, I feel like Sherman "The Nutty Professor", afraid to be himself, but that’s not all, and it's all in my head. It’s irrational) I believe the focus of my attention, and power of emotion, is in realizing the risk when the odds are much greater that I will realize the reward. Letting Go, and Acceptance, is needed, and I am stuck wanting to stay in a familiar, safe, comfortable place, which is limiting natural human growth, and potential. In transactional Analysis it is explained that we have a Parent, Adult, and Child. It has been mentioned on this forum about taking responsibility and being an Adult. With this in mind, I believe certain events such has taking risks trigger my State change from Adult to Child wanting security, safety, acceptance, belonging, needing permission to act, afraid to do something wrong, needing to be told what to do, and how to do it.

 

I have gotten past a limiting ego with awareness (mindfulness) of this likely possibility, and still have work to ingrain learned optimism. (A new area of thought and group therapy I will begin within the next couple months) In addition, I need to put myself through thought exercises to feel an emotional charge to change. I need to experience, or see, the pain that I am causing myself by staying the course of avoiding risk.

 

I know I have changed in the last few months just for the fact that I no longer experience intense anxiety when speaking in front of a group of people.(of under 20 people) I feel that I am getting connected, and on the path I am designing for myself. There are multiple issues that I am uncovering, and conquering.

 

Why psychologists don’t stay long? I could come up with assumptions, but I am learning to accept things as they are asking myself, Why ask why? Is it useful for me to understand? If not, I want to move on clearing many questions from my thoughts. If somebody comes up with the reason I would like to know, but I’d say that being connected, we are getting answers, or strokes. These human needs are being fulfilled elsewhere, or are no longer a need.

 

I am going to start taking my medication soon. If this helps me maintain a desired state, I'll take them until, hopefully, the state becomes habitual.

 

Thanks for this insightful forum(and thread)

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jaysmith124,

 

re: " am going to start taking my medication soon. If ..."

Do you really need meds that bad?

 

Hi:

No, I don't. I just think that it may help me think clearly, and be more assertive. It's for Depression/Anxiety, and with these states the brain loses its creativity, energy, etc., and the tendency is to be in a fight/flight defensive state. The intensity of this problem has pretty much dissipated with talk therapy, and my own reading and work. I am giving myself until April 7th to start a plan I've devised.

I have come a long way building my self-efficacy, esteem, and the belief that I can change thoughts/feelings, behaviors, beliefs, and values. I have received intensive trauma therapy for PTSD. It took care of, or made improvement, with all stuck points that I’ve examined. I have realized that with trading, I start experiencing a form of PTSD. When an opportunity to trade appears, it’s like I am alerted to danger. It is a stressor that stimulates past traumatic memories from loses, and other stuff unrelated to trading that has nothing to do with the present. When I press through this emotion, and enter the trade, the stress turns to distress and my state is definitely in fight/flight mode. It’s an automatic defensive emotional response, and state of mind, I need to keep examining, and break apart. My self-prognosis is daily exercises in relaxation techniques to maintain a calm assertive Adult state, and to desensitize the stressor. My belief is that I will win at least $1,000 dollars out of every three to four trades using 2000 per trade. With repetition, I will validate this new belief until it becomes automatic, and a daily routine.

I know what to do! But I still have a thought wishing I had a coach watching my back, and who expected me to perform, because he or she believes in me. And he or she has the skill to trade for income. I recognize that I need to be aware of this limiting thought and “stop it!” (I liked the video I saw on another thread, and re-posted it below) If I am in a Parent contaminated Adult, or Child contaminated Child, I am not in the present. I will want to dominate/control, or be submissive/controlled. I will experience guilt/shame from past memories, or worries from anticipating future events. It is in the present state that I can let go and accept going with the flow. Practicing mindfulness is a new tool and newly acquired skill allowing me to be aware of my thoughts/feelings, beliefs. This is how I’ve released a lot of fears I had of what others think of me.

 

To desensitize the emotions, the thought of using only 100 shares doesn’t make sense to me. It makes me feel like a piker for one thing, and I have tried it. I still experience the same defensive fearful, emotional reaction. I have a memory of the last day I tried this and I won 1.10 points, or $110 dollars. It should have been $1,100 dollars. Well, it is not working for me. I am not trading at all.(except paper trading) So, it is reasonable to start with 100 shares again until I can trade every day for a week before increasing maybe 500 shares for the next week. Etc.

 

I am currently feeling anxious thinking about what I want to do this week.

Well, enough talk. It’s time to act, and be, copasetic. Now, I need to perform.

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1g3ENYxg9k]YouTube - Bob Newhart-Stop It!![/ame]

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Hi, Jaysmith124:

 

Most people don't have much in the way of problems with the type of medication your doctor prescribed, so if you are going to take an anti-depressant, it's not a bad one to try. I agree with Rande, sometimes medication is what makes the difference.

 

If your are into a natural approach, you might want to check out a couple of sources of information on supplements and diet that also have an effect on mental functioning: Magnificent Mind at Any Age by Daniel Amen, M.D. and The Ultra Mind Solution by Mark Hyman, M.D. I've seen changes in diet and supplementation make a significant difference.

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Hi, Jaysmith124:

 

Most people don't have much in the way of problems with the type of medication your doctor prescribed, so if you are going to take an anti-depressant, it's not a bad one to try. I agree with Rande, sometimes medication is what makes the difference.

 

If your are into a natural approach, you might want to check out a couple of sources of information on supplements and diet that also have an effect on mental functioning: Magnificent Mind at Any Age by Daniel Amen, M.D. and The Ultra Mind Solution by Mark Hyman, M.D. I've seen changes in diet and supplementation make a significant difference.

 

 

FXGirl:

Thanks for the resources. I'll be interested to find out more.

 

Another thing I want to add to my last post is that after examining my thoughts and feelings after trading profitably, I have a tendency to stop trading. On an implicit level, I minimize, and discount, the reward for my skill and ability to luck. With this awareness, I realizing this limiting habit is a remnant most likely from depression, or low esteem. We are usually emotionally charged, and motivated to change by either desperation, or love. I will have to accept that I will be trading out of desperation, until the, calm assertive, relaxed, confident, loving state takes over. Until after my results have been repeatedly validated.

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Jaysmith: Since you are already familiar with transactional analysis (one of my favorite ways of looking at how we are put together), you might think of your attributing a profitable trade to luck as something that your child ego state learned earlier in life as a result of your experiences and how you evaluated them at the time. Somehow that belief (attribution, rule, cognition, strategy, or whatever you want to call it) made sense back then (for reasons that only you would know), but now, in a different environment and as an adult, it doesn't serve you. Now you get to challenge that belief, unhook the emotional charge it carries and replace it with something new, more reality based, and more supportive of your goals. Your adult ego state can certainly help you with the cognitive part of this, your nurturing parent ego state can help with the emotional piece.

 

You'll hear people (including therapists) say that people don't change until they are desperate and that change is slow and hard work. Yup, that's true for some people, but not everyone. Change can happen in a million different ways, in a million different timeframes. The idea that you have to suffer in order to change is just another belief that isn't necessarily true. Everyone does it their own way, in their own time. I urge you to be creative about the process. Don't take it too seriously and have some fun with it. A sense of humor is a great healer.

 

You might like "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. He speaks about the kind of kind of attributions we make and how to change them.

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I am currently feeling anxious thinking about what I want to do this week.

Well, enough talk. It’s time to act, and be, copasetic. Now, I need to perform.

YouTube - Bob Newhart-Stop It!!

 

One thing for sure. Trading will give you plenty of opportunity to test out your observations. Regarding Transactional Analysis -- The Gouldings took TA from an eloquent cognitive theory to a highly practical one for changing core beliefs in their modification of TA called Redecision Therapy. What they got was that it was the fundamental belief about self that had to change. Otherwise, it was great talk but no long term change. They used the language of TA, where as I use the language of Jungian Archetypes, that is not what matters. They were able to get at the process of change long before neuro-science started contributing to our understanding of how the brain produces mind.

 

Rande Howell

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"... our understanding of how the brain produces mind."

 

Brain produces mind?

Beware - that new paradigm could be one of those massively limiting blfs... ;)

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"... our understanding of how the brain produces mind."

 

Brain produces mind?

Beware - that new paradigm could be one of those massively limiting blfs... ;)

 

The assumption in neuro-science (Antonio DeMasio and Richard Dawkins) is that mind emerges from brain and that all perception is a neurological event. In this theory it is the vast number of synaptic interactions is what causes us to have continual awareness, whereas other animals do not have the over sized hot rod brain we do and cannot, therefore, produce these continuous states. I am aware that many, myself included, often wonder if humans are aware or not. But that's another story.

 

Other folks (I'm blanking out on the name right now) purport that perception of reality is both inside the brain and outside the brain. The example is eating an apple. Certainly the entire experience is a neurological event -- AND that the apple exists out side of your perception simultaneously. So, consequently, mind is only one element of a larger reality. It so happens that it is this assumption that I hold as a belief. I am a certain observer of reality that is limited by the biology of the brain that becomes mind. But other worlds exist beyond the brain and the emergent mind's capacity to observe. This would apply to String Theory as well as opening ourselves to inherent human need for spirituality (which I am all for).

 

zdo, I walk a fine line. I force several traditions of interpreting our world into the same room. I see their inter-connectedness. They make strange bedfellows, but I believe we have to become comfortable with uncertainty, ambiguity, and the limitations to our awareness as long as consciousness is embedded into a brain. It makes for an interesting journey.

 

Rande Howell

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The assumption in neuro-science (Antonio DeMasio and Richard Dawkins) is that mind emerges from brain and that all perception is a neurological event. In this theory it is the vast number of synaptic interactions is what causes us to have continual awareness, whereas other animals do not have the over sized hot rod brain we do and cannot, therefore, produce these continuous states. I am aware that many, myself included, often wonder if humans are aware or not. But that's another story.

 

Other folks (I'm blanking out on the name right now) purport that perception of reality is both inside the brain and outside the brain. The example is eating an apple. Certainly the entire experience is a neurological event -- AND that the apple exists out side of your perception simultaneously. So, consequently, mind is only one element of a larger reality. It so happens that it is this assumption that I hold as a belief. I am a certain observer of reality that is limited by the biology of the brain that becomes mind. But other worlds exist beyond the brain and the emergent mind's capacity to observe. This would apply to String Theory as well as opening ourselves to inherent human need for spirituality (which I am all for).

 

zdo, I walk a fine line. I force several traditions of interpreting our world into the same room. I see their inter-connectedness. They make strange bedfellows, but I believe we have to become comfortable with uncertainty, ambiguity, and the limitations to our awareness as long as consciousness is embedded into a brain. It makes for an interesting journey.

 

Rande Howell

 

Interesting. It was easier for me to deduce that the mind is the software, and the brain is the hardware.

 

By the way, I had an opportunity this morning and hesitated. The resulting paper trade produced .38 cents. I have to get ready and be somewhere, but I will stay determined to trade this week. I don't know what good will come out of it, but I want to share my fills and results on video for some reason. I think it might be because of my past experiences dealing with a few gurus who are not transparent yet wanted money for basic information. I need to "Stop it". It is not in my best interest to worrying about others, or wanting to muckrake others for having a value system that takes advantage of others. (Unless I am protecting people close to me)

 

Also, an alternate thought is that it could be that my Child contaminated Adult needing recognition, accolades, love, understanding, etc.. Human needs not being fulfilled in other areas of my life. I am purposefully being demonstrative to show how I've been challenging my thoughts/feelings, actions, beliefs, and connecting them to my values, which in turn is connected to a purpose, or greater meaning. This has been working making changes to my mind, which enables me to deliberately strive for frequent peak experiences.

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Jaysmith: Since you are already familiar with transactional analysis (one of my favorite ways of looking at how we are put together), you might think of your attributing a profitable trade to luck as something that your child ego state learned earlier in life as a result of your experiences and how you evaluated them at the time. Somehow that belief (attribution, rule, cognition, strategy, or whatever you want to call it) made sense back then (for reasons that only you would know), but now, in a different environment and as an adult, it doesn't serve you. Now you get to challenge that belief, unhook the emotional charge it carries and replace it with something new, more reality based, and more supportive of your goals. Your adult ego state can certainly help you with the cognitive part of this, your nurturing parent ego state can help with the emotional piece.

 

You'll hear people (including therapists) say that people don't change until they are desperate and that change is slow and hard work. Yup, that's true for some people, but not everyone. Change can happen in a million different ways, in a million different timeframes. The idea that you have to suffer in order to change is just another belief that isn't necessarily true. Everyone does it their own way, in their own time. I urge you to be creative about the process. Don't take it too seriously and have some fun with it. A sense of humor is a great healer.

 

You might like "Learned Optimism" by Martin Seligman. He speaks about the kind of kind of attributions we make and how to change them.

 

Yes, I also have "Authentic Happiness" by Martin Seligman on my reading list.

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JaySmith124

 

Trading will give you an excellent arena to observe yourself. So be prepared to change. At the very bottom of human psychological organization is the fundamental needs for connection (belonging) and cherishment in a context of safety. This all gets set up in our attachments to self, others, things, and greater purpose. Out of our personal disruptions to these fundamental needs comes our sense of meaning and purpose in the world. Truth is, most folks seek answers to worth, mattering, and worthiness externally through performances rather than their inherent value as a human being. The spiritiual masters have been telling us this for centuries, but it is hard to hear. Trading really exposes this. This is why trading is such a great arena for self development. It becomes impossible to avoid ineffective beliefs about the self once you accept full responsibility for what happens in your trading. I wish you well.

 

Rande Howell

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JaySmith124

 

Trading will give you an excellent arena to observe yourself. So be prepared to change. At the very bottom of human psychological organization is the fundamental needs for connection (belonging) and cherishment in a context of safety. This all gets set up in our attachments to self, others, things, and greater purpose. Out of our personal disruptions to these fundamental needs comes our sense of meaning and purpose in the world. Truth is, most folks seek answers to worth, mattering, and worthiness externally through performances rather than their inherent value as a human being. The spiritiual masters have been telling us this for centuries, but it is hard to hear. Trading really exposes this. This is why trading is such a great arena for self development. It becomes impossible to avoid ineffective beliefs about the self once you accept full responsibility for what happens in your trading. I wish you well.

 

Rande Howell

 

Thanks! I feel fortunate to have found this forum and the quality post. Especially, helpful (to me) is Rande, FXgirl, and Ingot54. I hope you don't mind ZDO that it seems we have gotten off topic, but you're thread has attracted a couple good psychologists that talk the same language I have studied, and I've taken advantage of it for it has given me the feeling that I am not alone. Hearing concepts repeated in different words helps me to stay on track. Well, I took a trade this morning, and the emotion of fear/anxiety compelled me to get out for no reason. I will post it here as I did on the thread "Trading For A Living" in the money management Forum. I this reaction was the same as if I was using 2000 or 3000 shares, but I will continue with 100 for at least a week before possibly jumping to 500 shares.

FCX.avi

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someone sent me this....interesting thoughts on page 6............

 

Fitness landscapes and the role of the inductive process. We believe the idea of

a fitness landscape, or “adaptive landscape” is a good way to think about success

and failure in the money management business. The notion is that certain individuals

within a population are endowed with a physical or mental makeup that allows

them to thrive versus the rest of the population in a given context. A fitness landscape

is a standard way of representing such differences.

Said bluntly, some people are better suited to succeed in money management than

others, based on how their brain processes information. Paul Samuelson, the famed

economist, has called it the “performance quotient”:

“It is not ordered in heaven, or by the second law of thermodynamics, that

a small group of intelligent and informed investors cannot systematically

achieve higher mean portfolio gains with lower average variabilities. People

differ in their heights, pulchritude, and acidity. Why not their P.Q. or

performance quotient?”17

Once again, it is good news and bad news. The good news is that some investors

can systematically outperform the market. The bad news is that the skill sets of

these individuals are non-transferable. Reading those Berkshire Hathaway annual

reports is certainly pleasurable, but most people cannot put the ideas to work successfully.

The main reason money management skill sets are nontransferable is that humans

largely operate inductively, not deductively.18 While economics in general— and

finance theory in particular— has been defined through deductive models (including

rational agents, equilibrium, linearity), we know that humans attempt to reason

based on incomplete and fragmented information. While there is only one way to

be purely rational, there are infinite ways to be non-rational— and humans almost

always operate in the latter space. As the differences between investors hinge on

largely unconscious, innate and inductive factors, positive-alpha-generating money

management skills are difficult to pinpoint and to convey. It follows that various

aptitudes for investing need not be associated with formal education or intelligence

quotients.

Whether individuals who are predisposed to excel do find success is likely heavily

influenced by personal effort and coaching. Michael Jordan, the basketball star,

serves as a good example. Jordan certainly would not have been a superstar basketball

player had he not been endowed with certain physical attributes. However,

he is the greatest player in the world because his well-suited genotype was married

to hard work and good coaching.

Mauboussin- What Have You Learned in the Past 2 Seconds.pdf

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The conclusion (page 6)

The best antidote to this dichotomy is to be as self-aware as possible— mindful of

handed-down emotional limitations— and to stress personal strengths at the expense

of personal weaknesses.

 

Thanks, I want to add...

 

that after mindfulness of our behavioral patterns, and knowing strengths and weaknesses, it is possible to change. Most people don't know how to change, and if they did, they're not willing to change. They find that it is too much work to examine and challenge deep rooted beliefs and values.

 

When most people do make changes to their limitations, and behavior, they can't tell you what they did. It just happened. (like a teenager explaining why, and what, they did for to get their negative results to a CEO, or an A student, explaining how they got positive results) It comes down to how you feel. Do you feel comfortable, or uncomfortable? you can't be excited, determined, and persevere, if uncomfortable.

 

Most of the time, just the thought of making changes makes one feel uncomfortable. If a change means that we experience discomfort we don't want to change our habits, or beliefs.

 

You have to know what you want, and then get comfortable with it. A long time ago, I heard that most lottery winners are broke after 5 years. It is because they were not psychologically ready. They felt uncomfortable with such a windfall. Now, when a youngster gets picked by an NBA team, he goes through training to handle the sudden wealth. In the past many were getting into drugs, destructive behavior, and destructive spending.

 

I have been helped with these thoughts. I have a dollar figure that I feel I have the potential of winning out of the markets on a consistent basis. I have never sat down and spent the time to imagine, and visualize, what I will do with the money. How will I handle the budget? A landscape that is presently unprepared could be limiting me.

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