Pros and Cons - The Daytrader's Life

[Dinerotrader 10]

Hello all,

I am currently stuck in the corporate world all the while wishing I was just trading stocks full time. I provided a small list of pros and cons related to changing my career to daytrading and I thought it would be interesting to see what you all could add that I hadn't considered. I am not considering the pros and cons of being a daytrader who is not successful at making reasonably consistent profits. I will not quit my full time job until I can prove I have a consitently profitable method/strategy that will exceed my current income so, part time, unprofitable, daytrading is not what I am considering for this list. Ultimately this would be a dream job to most people if money was consistently made but of course this very hard to do. I am sure TL has contributed a lot to the success of many daytraders.

 

Advantages

• No Boss
  
• Can trade from anywhere with internet connection if workstaton is portable
  
• Works hours can be shorter than the corporate world
  
• Large market moves are no longer a risk with short term positions
  
• All days the market is closed are holidays
  
• Good excuse to buy sweet computer system
  
• No/low commuting time
  
• Compared to owning business - no legal liability, no employees, no inventory
  

 

Disadvantages

• No Paid time off
  
• Possible stress and money shortage issues if trading methods stops producing profits
  
• Capital is required to make money
  
• No company benefits: health insurance, etc.
  
• Can be lonely
  
• The market sets its own hours that you have to work with
  
• Tax filing is more of a hassle than for W-2 wage earner
  

 

 

Thanks in advance for your time adding to this list based on your own thoughts and experiences.

 

Cheers.

[TradeSmart 10]

Just a few additions that I thought should play into your analysis:

 

Advantages

More time for family, friends, and fun! (This alone should outweigh all disadvantages!!!)

 

 

Disadvantages

If you leave Corporate America then need to return a few years down the road, you've really limited your earnings potential (just imagine trying to explain why your resume is blank for a 2 year gap).

 

When you meet people and tell them you're a "daytrader" and they see you're driving an M3 with a V12, they'll most likely assume you're a drug dealer on the side.

 

 

Best of luck to you in finding what you want!

[thalestrader 14]

Disadvantage: There may be no pursuit so contrary to the natural inclination of our emotions as is trading. By day trading, you are subjecting your psyche several times each day this stress. Discipline is largely the ability to withstand the urge to act so as to relieve this emotional pressure, and instead control the pressure so that you can execute and manage your trades.

 

Daily I recall the passage in Reminiscences where Livermore describes how most folks will allow a loss to run and grow larger and larger as they "hope" the loss will come back and and get smaller, maybe even let them out at breakeven, while at the same time, they cut short a profit as they "fear" that the profit (which they did not have when they woke up that morning) will get smaller or evaporate completely; when what a trader needs to do is cut the loss short out of fear the loss will get larger, and let the profit run in the hope that it will get larger.

 

In the end, one might conclude that it is not fear and greed but fear and hope which fuel the markets, and fear and hope of the wrong things no less. If you can control your emotions, profits come easily. If not, then at best you will find yourself overtrading trying to scalp for a few ticks here and there, or perhaps not trading at all, afraid "to pull the trigger," fearing any loss whatsoever. I have spent time in both places over the years.

 

It has been years since I have had any problem pulling the trigger. If anything, I usually find myself having to talk myself into waiting for my entry rather than jumping the gun. But I still have days where once I'm in a trade, I find myself needing to get up, go outside, and walk around the block as a way of forcing me to "sit on my hands," and keep me from moving my stop too close and cutting my profit short.

 

Trading is the hardest thing I have ever done.

 

Good Luck to you,

 

Thales

[Dinerotrader 10]

Thanks Thales.

 

I believe you have mentioned that you have a second field of work along side trading. What has kept you from making daytrading your only business?

 

As Brownsfan has said before, daytrading is one of the few businesses where making more money can be simply accomplished by adding more shares/contracts to your trades if your strategy is profitable. Alternatively, in most businesses, making more money requires more work/hours/sweat from the person. Based on this do you think you can become very wealthy as a trader once you find the right profitable strategy by just adding volumn to your trade lots? What keeps profitable traders from becoming wealthy retirees very quickly?

 

You gave one large disadvantage, do you have any advantages to add? Thanks for your input.

Cheers.

[thalestrader 14]

I believe you have mentioned that you have a second field of work along side trading. What has kept you from making daytrading your only business?

 

I simply have other business interests that I have worked to develop over the years, and I am happy with my life. There is no activity in which I am currently engaged that I wish to shed.

 

As Brownsfan has said before, daytrading is one of the few businesses where making more money can be simply accomplished by adding more shares/contracts to your trades if your strategy is profitable.

 

I would only caution that one really ought to pay attention to one's position size relative to equity relative to risk. Focus on learning to trade and on risk:reward, and the profits will take care of themselves.

 

Yes, more money can be made by simply adding contracts, but more money can be lost as well.

 

 

Alternatively, in most businesses, making more money requires more work/hours/sweat from the person.

 

If you knew the number of hours of work, sweat, tears, frustration, emotional and psychological pain as well as financial loss that I had endured to get my trading to where it is today, you might not find it so appealing an endeavor. I was not a natural born trader.

 

Based on this do you think you can become very wealthy as a trader once you find the right profitable strategy by just adding volumn to your trade lots?

 

As I said, learn to trade, focus on risk:reward, understand position sizing, and the money will take care of itself.

 

What keeps profitable traders from becoming wealthy retirees very quickly?

 

Ed Seykota is famous for saying everyone gets whatever it is he wants from the markets. This implies that folks trade for many reasons other than the money. Money is just the way we keep our own score. Would you be in a hurry to retire from an activity the performance of which gives you great pleasure and happiness? If you are in it for the money only, I suspect your chances for success are greatly diminished.

 

You gave one large disadvantage, do you have any advantages to add?

 

It allows you to share. And, if I may borrow a phrase, "sharing is caring." If you succeed, it will give you the means to help folks. We, my family, give an anonymous, weekly donation to a local ecumencial food bank. I'd encourage anyone here who has more than they need to find it in their hearts to give just a small portion of their excess to help those less fortunate.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Uli Schmuli 10]

Pro: Virtually unlimited income

 

Con: Uncertainty

[Robert337664 10]

For me, the advantages outweigh the disadvantages. Determine what's most important to you. Trading for a career is a lifestyle change. Depending on which instrument you trade, trading can be done on your schedule. I trade equities between 9:30-12:00 am. EST. take the rest of the time setting up my trades and evaluating past trades.

 

Most important, Make a Trading Plan. You wouldn't start a business without a business plan, the same with trading. Be specific! What instruments will you trade? Pick 4-5 and get to know them and their characteristics. Under what conditions would you enter a trade & when would you exit. Are you intraday or swing,or both? What is your risk to reward ratio? Base this on your tolerance for risk. Be diligent is setting your stops and stick to them. Don't add to losers, get out, there is always another trade. Let your winners run with trailing stops. Be disciplined enough to STICK to YOUR RULES. Emotions will make you go bankrupt. The trick is to manage your losses. Focus on not losing (controlling) and the profits will come. Accept the fact that you will have losses, everyone does. Distinguish the difference between trader and investor. Warren Buffet is an investor, he buys and holds. Traders flip stocks (long or short) within minutes (scalping), longer intraday (momentum), or overnight up to several weeks (swing). Decide which you are, or what combination. FOLLOW YOUR RULES!!!

 

Find a good trading platform. I've used a few and currently use TradeStation. This is not and endorsement. It works for me, maybe not you. It's strong on equities, not so much on other instruments. Just a personal opinion that fits my style.

 

If your going to do this for a living, INCORPORATE. An LLC is fine, you may use it with a "C", check with your accountant. Make sure your accountant is familiar with pattern day traders accounting rules otherwise it could cost you. Two that come to mind are Green Trader accounting (Green is the accountants name) and Traders Accounting, both have websites. I use neither, my CPA is familiar with the rules.

 

Last bit on advice is to paper trade first. Use your plan to be sure it works. Make adjustments as necessary. When you go live begin with small share size (50-100). If your profitable, gradually increase. Depending on your commitment, it could take you a year to become profitable. BE DISCIPLINED, or you will fail and blow your account.

 

SEC rules require you to have a $25,000 account to day trade equities (4+ trades within 5 days), futures (emini's) can be traded with less investment and can be traded around the clock.

 

ONLY TRADE WITH WHAT YOU CAN AFFORD TO LOSE. Scared money never wins.

[Gabe2004 10]

Disadvantage: There may be no pursuit so contrary to the natural inclination of our emotions as is trading. By day trading, you are subjecting your psyche several times each day this stress. Discipline is largely the ability to withstand the urge to act so as to relieve this emotional pressure, and instead control the pressure so that you can execute and manage your trades.

 

Daily I recall the passage in Reminiscences where Livermore describes how most folks will allow a loss to run and grow larger and larger as they "hope" the loss will come back and and get smaller, maybe even let them out at breakeven, while at the same time, they cut short a profit as they "fear" that the profit (which they did not have when they woke up that morning) will get smaller or evaporate completely; when what a trader needs to do is cut the loss short out of fear the loss will get larger, and let the profit run in the hope that it will get larger.

 

In the end, one might conclude that it is not fear and greed but fear and hope which fuel the markets, and fear and hope of the wrong things no less. If you can control your emotions, profits come easily. If not, then at best you will find yourself overtrading trying to scalp for a few ticks here and there, or perhaps not trading at all, afraid "to pull the trigger," fearing any loss whatsoever. I have spent time in both places over the years.

 

It has been years since I have had any problem pulling the trigger. If anything, I usually find myself having to talk myself into waiting for my entry rather than jumping the gun. But I still have days where once I'm in a trade, I find myself needing to get up, go outside, and walk around the block as a way of forcing me to "sit on my hands," and keep me from moving my stop too close and cutting my profit short.

 

Trading is the hardest thing I have ever done.

 

Good Luck to you,

 

Thales

 

I call trading THE LAST NUT THAT I HAVE TO CRACK and yes, it is the hardest thing I have ever attmepted.

Could you tell us how long did it take you to be consistantly profitable (on a weekly basis or any other basis) from the moment you discovered trading?

Also what is the % allocation of the instruments you trade.

 

Thank you

 

Gabe

[forrestang 10]

It allows you to share. And, if I may borrow a phrase, "sharing is caring." If you succeed, it will give you the means to help folks. We, my family, give an anonymous, weekly donation to a local ecumencial food bank. I'd encourage anyone here who has more than they need to find it in their hearts to give just a small portion of their excess to help those less fortunate.

 

I've often fantasized about having the ability to help others more often than I do. I think it's great to have disposable income to be able to donate to causes one would see fit.

 

I also think it would be awesome to be able to teach someone so inclined to trade how to become profitable. Friends, family even people you meet online.

 

It's nice to have something to pass on. Imagine being able to teach you children how to trade, so even if your kid tells you he/she wants to be an anthropologist..... you know they have a skill they can use to be financially secure while doing other things that may be less profitable but that they enjoy.

[thalestrader 14]

I've often fantasized about having the ability to help others more often than I do. I think it's great to have disposable income to be able to donate to causes one would see fit.

 

No better cause than feeding hungry children ... don't fantasize, just do. Even the smallest towns likely have a food bank where even a box of pasta or a bag of rice would be appreciated. During these tough times, small favors matter greatly.

Edited July 11, 2009 by thalestrader

[thalestrader 14]

Could you tell us how long did it take you to be consistantly profitable (on a weekly basis or any other basis) from the moment you discovered trading?

Also what is the % allocation of the instruments you trade.

 

Thank you

 

Gabe

 

I am not sure answering either of these questions provides any real value to someone else learning to trade. One's ability to turn a profit at this activity will depend far more on his or her own mental, emotional, and psychological characteristics rather than either the time or even the effort expended to achieve success.

 

For what's it worth (and again, I suspect very little) I did well from the very beginning with respect to swing trading stocks for longer pulls. As far day trading, it took me far longer than it should have to do it well.

 

I primarily day trade stocks, but that isn't my own money, so that capital would not figure into any "allocation".

 

As far as day trading my own capital, I keep a very, very small futures account for day trading. The only index future I day trade with any regularity is the ES. I also day trade the 6B and 6E CME currency futures. When I open ninjatrader, my workspace only has three charts, the 5 minute ES, the 15 minute 6E, and the 15 minute 6B. I am always ready and willing, but I do not day trade futures every day. I am fairly particular as to the trades I am willing to make.

 

Again, I do not think any of the above is particularly useful. So let me try to add something to this post that someone may find helpful:

 

If you are just starting out (or if you've been day trading for a while), do not worry about how long it took someone else to do well, especially not someone you found on an internet forum. Study yourself, not me, nor anyone else.

 

You need to study yourself, to "know thyself," because you need to figure out what kind of trader you are: are you a nervous nellie who feels best scalping for a few ticks and getting flat as quickly as possible, or are you able to sit through the small reactions and play for a bigger swing?

 

Once you figure that out, then pick one instrument and learn to trade by trading a one or two lot of that one instrument, whether it is the ES, the NQ, the YM, ZN, ZB, 6E or something else. One or two contracts is more than enough to win or lose real money. I don't care who thinks I'm a piker, but I typically trade no more than 5-6 contracts at a time, and often I trade smaller.

 

I made my best progress as a day trader during a two or three year period when I decided to trade only the old ER2 contract. I used a 3 minute chart, and I admit, I relied heavily on a 5,3,3 stochastic to identify divergence (not a recommendation, just an admission of guilt). At some point, I moved to the ES, and I added Taylor's Book Method. Taylor focused me on S/R, and soon after that, I gave up indicators entirely (except for a 20ema on 5 minute stock charts - it is my one "vice").

 

 

Most of the day traders whom I either know to be successful or reasonably believe to be successful trade just one instrument. Too many would-be speculators fall into the trap of thinking they should be trading the ES, NQ, YM, and TF, as well notes and bonds, crude and the euro. Not so! Pick one and learn to trade. If you decide you wish to trade forex, don't try to trade the 20 or 30 or however many currency pairs your dealer makes available. Pick one to start, maybe two, certainly no more than three.

 

Once you know how to trade, then you will be able to trade anything. But you will not need to trade everything.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[Uli Schmuli 10]

Call me a slow learner, if you will, but it took me six years.

[wrbtrader 10]

The life of a daytrader is very personal and any pros/cons will be different from one trader to the next or not in agreement with the pros/cons of another trader.

 

Here are some suggestions to help those that see it as a disadvantage.

 

Lonely - We can quickly develop online friendships via the internet (social networking) faster than someone can without the internet. From there, we then decide whom we want to develop into an in person friendship or professional relationship.

 

For example, I met an energy futures trader online and he was located in Seattle, WA. He made a remark it's a lonely business along with not knowing any day traders in Seattle. I recommended he get a myspace, facebook, twitter account (all free) and be active in interacting on those sites with others via having discussion about what he does for a living, software he uses et cetera.

 

He did that and within a few months has regular get togethers (in person) with other day traders along with getting a small trading office with 3 other day traders.

 

My point is that any listed disadvantage can be fixed if the trader is willing to change something in their personal life.

 

My Pro: Easy to develop personal and professional contacts online and in person.

 

My Con: Family lifestyle dictates what I trade.

[Wes 10]

There are so many aspects that could be either pro or con depending on point of view.

 

You're (generally) alone other than a chatroom or Skype or something.

You are "chained" to your computer a bit. Not too different from many regular jobs, really. :missy:

 

The money potential is quite high, yet uncertain. Of course, look around right now during The Great Recession and see how many people feel certain about their jobs. My friend went to a job fair recently after being downsized. It took two hours to get in the door. Suddenly a "not a real job" like trading or exotic dancer or whatever else may look more reliable than being a manager at a Fortune 500 company.

 

Social standing. Unless you're making the big bucks, and maybe even if you are, people may tend to look down their noses at you. Same with an "average" musician or pro gambler or other atypical job. People don't understand, and you will eventually realize it's not worth trying to get to them to understand. The ironic part, of course, is that many of those people looking down their nose at your job hate their job.

 

In general, less "costs to work." Sometime you might read an article titled something like "Can you afford to work?" If you work from home, there are likely savings. Gas, newer car which also means higher car insurance for it, more car maintenance, clothes, perhaps daycare, office-related dinners, gifts for coworkers you don't even like... whatever you can think of that costs you money to do your job. If your job gives you a company car and the like, great, but not everyone gets that, and remember it's probably priced-in to your wage anyway.

 

Yeah, there are certain extra costs with trading, too, but they pale in comparison, imo. I mean, heck, people were selling their vehicles to get smaller ones when gas was sky-high because *they couldn't afford to drive to work*. (Wait till the ridiculous Cap and Trade kicks in.) If you work at home and don't drive much, things like this are almost a non-issue. Things like that, or even the recession itself, can basically not affect you. You are invincible! :thumbs up:

 

A big pro/con, if not part of a person's "real" job, is potential for travelling. You can pretty much live anywhere you want that has internet. A 15+ year trader veteran I talk to every day says his main regret is not travelling more and trading from other countries. And he's even talking about before the technology advances we have now, before low commissions and fast internet. The tools and commissions we have now were a pipe dream back in the day.

 

Along with being at home a lot without much real outside social contact during the day, (which could be either a pro or con depending on the person), and along with not having to make sure you have work/office clothes/car at the ready, there's small things like the freedom to wear what you want, to have the hairstyle you want, to wear a big, giant nose ring if you want, paint your face green if you want, whatever.

 

I read the following once, and it sums up that part well. It went something like: "There are not many other jobs where you could literally tell every single person you meet during the entire year to F off, and it wouldn't affect your bottom line."

[jonbig04 10]

It went something like: "There are not many other jobs where you could literally tell every single person you meet during the entire year to F off, and it wouldn't affect your bottom line."

 

Haha, a classic one

[microcera 10]

 

I read the following once, and it sums up that part well. It went something like: "There are not many other jobs where you could literally tell every single person you meet during the entire year to F off, and it wouldn't affect your bottom line."

 

But don’t forget, trading is literally the easiest job in the world to F up yourself. Take the responsibilities and always take that small losses and never overtrade.

[bathrobe 10]

I love trading, the markets are like a drug to me; but sadly due to my hours (live in AZ and trade from 4am to 1pm) and the stress that can come with trading, my health has gone down the tubes. Ten years ago I was a division 1 athlete in great shape, now I just turned 30 and I have lost 45 pounds due to eating here and there, never working out anymore, no cardio, very high blood pressure.........the list goes on and on. I realize most (all) of this is my fault but to get back in shape from where I am standing now is very daunting, and at 1 pm I am exhausted I also find myself contacting my friends less and less. The loneliness is horrible. I think if I did what I do from an office I would live a healthier life/lifestyle. Maybe in the future this is a good idea for me. I guess I really have not said anything here but maybe I needed to write this all down. I tried to run this morning and after about 3-4 blocks I had to sit down because I thought I was actually going to pass out. My 22 year old version of my self would have kicked my a$$

[Kiwi 16]

I love trading, the markets are like a drug to me; but sadly due to my hours (live in AZ and trade from 4am to 1pm) and the stress that can come with trading, my health has gone down the tubes. Ten years ago I was a division 1 athlete in great shape, now I just turned 30 and I have lost 45 pounds due to eating here and there, never working out anymore, no cardio, very high blood pressure.........the list goes on and on. I realize most (all) of this is my fault but to get back in shape from where I am standing now is very daunting, and at 1 pm I am exhausted I also find myself contacting my friends less and less. The loneliness is horrible. I think if I did what I do from an office I would live a healthier life/lifestyle. Maybe in the future this is a good idea for me. I guess I really have not said anything here but maybe I needed to write this all down. I tried to run this morning and after about 3-4 blocks I had to sit down because I thought I was actually going to pass out. My 22 year old version of my self would have kicked my a$$

 

 

Find Dr Dean Ornish's book "The Spectrum" and start his program. He's research based (not the bs you often find in the health industry) and what you can achieve with moderate diet, exercise, stress relief and personal connection might motivate you to get more out of your next decade.

 

Best of luck ... this is a lonely obsessed game if you let it be so.

[ZOSO 10]

The allure of making big bucks in your underwear, quitting before lunch and then living a country club lifestyle is the dream. It doesn't matter one iota how successful you are doing other things or how smart you are when it comes to trading. The odds are you will end up failing. 95% of all who enter this business fail.

 

Discretionary trading is brutal and automated is less brutal. My sincere advice is to go down this road unless you have significant liquid assets and are prepared to lose. If you want to take a flier and lose say 15% and then call it quits, fine. Also be advised that you will not have success buying any of the systems, seminars, and software peddled to the public.

[ZOSO 10]

95% of all who climb into this ring get knocked out and most of them are very bright and highly successful in another field. All those skillsets don't apply in this business.

 

If you want to take a flier and have money to burn give it a try.

[Gabe2004 10]

95% of all who climb into this ring get knocked out and most of them are very bright and highly successful in another field. All those skillsets don't apply in this business.

 

If you want to take a flier and have money to burn give it a try.

 

The problem I have with the above stats is that they never mention how much time did that 95% spend befor quitting and how much money did they invest in the process.

I think that one would find that the 5% that succeeded has put in close to the proverbial 10,ooo hours and they did not have only a few hundred or a few thousand dollars on the line.

 

Gabe

[Wes 10]

The problem I have with the above stats is that they never mention how much time did that 95% spend befor quitting and how much money did they invest in the process.

I think that one would find that the 5% that succeeded has put in close to the proverbial 10,ooo hours and they did not have only a few hundred or a few thousand dollars on the line.

 

I've generally heard the stat includes pretty much everybody, no matter how unprepared they were or for how long they did it. I know people who got a "hot tip" from a coworker, put x amount of thousands into it, and lost, all the while not really having any idea what they are doing. Using data via that method, 95% of people would probably fail at being car mechanics or poker pros or whatever, too.

 

One amusing thing is that probably anyone with any experience in the markets will likely think at least some of the financial "experts" on TV, or maybe their own financial advisors who have steered them wrong and who are a big reason why they now want to look after things themselves, are idiots. So then they ask themselves, "Can I do much worse than these idiots?" If those idiots have cost them a lot of money over the years, the answer is probably "no," and they at least then avoid the middle-man.

[sep34 10]

95% of all who climb into this ring get knocked out and most of them are very bright and highly successful in another field. All those skillsets don't apply in this business.

 

If you want to take a flier and have money to burn give it a try.

 

not a personal attack, but, Thats ridiculous.

 

Lets assume that the 95% statistic is real, but that 95% failure rate does not discount all the ignorant reasons why many dont make it. Most of the reasons why some dont achieve the results they like could be avoided if they just used some common sense.

 

When any person allows themself to think that trading successfuly can be accomplished by reading a few books. Then your on your way to easy money, off course they will fail.

 

On the other hand if a person takes the right steps, then their results will be much better.

 

I have never seen a guy read a couple law books and then be allowed to be an attorney.

I have never seen a guy read a couple medical journals and then walk into a hospital and say , "ok Im ready to operate on some folks", It willl not be allowed.

 

If they didnt allow folks to trade after a couple of books and with the use of some vien indicators then the success curve would rise.

 

Until that time, for any person that is interested in trading,

if you do your home work, put in the time and effort needed well before you ever place your first trade.

If you find that you really like trading for the right reasons, not just because you want ot live like the rich & famous. Then I really cant see any reason why you should fail.

 

Another option...

If you want to learn to be carpenter then find a solid carpenter that is willing to take you under wing and train you. The same thing can be accomplished with trading.

 

So please, any person that is interested in trading, stop listening to these ridiculous statistics on failure rate, its non sense.

 

Is this a challanging field? Absolutley.

Can you fail? if you dont take the right steps, Absolutely.

Can you make it as Trader? If you take the right steps, Absolutely.

 

By the way just for some prespective:

The National Realstate Association posts a 90+ % Ffailure rate for newbes that want to be a Real State Agent. Many ohter business have simlar failure rates posted by their associations.

 

Lets assume that the failure rate of 95% is true, then being a trader or real state agent is very similar. Thus being a trader is no more difficult then being a realstate agent.

 

I just wanted to make an argument that trading is no different then any other field. All fields have their unique challanges. They all require time and effort. Dont make the mistake of making trading a big deal in your minds.

[jonbig04 10]

I don't know about the stats, but there is something that sets trading apart from most professions. IMO traders, as a normal part of every day trading, are confronted with two situations which most people do everything they can to avoid: being wrong and losing money. Most people can't handle either one, let alone both on an almost daily basis (depending on your style of course). I agree that trading presents challenges that are beatable like any other field, but the challenges it presents are completely unlike the vast majority of other professions out there and require a completely different set of skills to overcome. Often, the tendencies that we have developed from birth, the tendencies that will help us get through a career like being an attorney or a real estate agent do not apply to trading. Trading may not be harder, but it is different.

 

In a broad way you can compare trading to say, getting a law degree. Both require time, dedication, and hard work. But thats pretty much where the similarities end. Getting a degree really only requires time and effort. You go to the class, do what you're told, and after X amount of time the degree is in your hands. You can spend the same amount of time reading trading books and listening to "gurus" and get no where. Trading presents us with unlimited opportunities daily. The path to success is no where near as clearly defined as something like a law degree.

 

I agree that making trading a big deal in our minds isn't helpful, and too many people do it. It is beatable just like anything else, but IMO it is different than other things and has to be approached differently. The things that make trading difficult aren't the same as the things that make getting a law degree difficult. So, they both present their respective challenges, but the challenges a trader has to deal with are very different from that of most other fields.

[sep34 10]

Jonbig4, you make a good point....most people are not comfortable with saying they are wrong nor do they like losing Money.

 

 

 

Im of the opinon and experience that Trading is not more difficult then other professions, if you look at its challenges as an average rather in isolation or as a whole rather then in isoaltion.

 

Consider the challenge and work that it takes to be accepted in an ivey league law school, e.g. like Georgetwon. While at the same tme balancing a social life and a job.

not many are able to a hndle that.

But it does not a mke it something out of reach.

 

Consider being a Fighter piolet, its again a very challenging job. in combat you have to make real fast decisions and mistakes can and will cost you your life...at least a mistake in trading you live to trade a another day.

 

Consider a medical surgeon,

1st the have to have incredible endurance to go through many years of school.

2nd they have to have to be very precise, mistake can have grave consequences.

3rd they have to have incredible ability to focus for many hours without a break. many operstions can take 7-8 hours. (this is something many people can not do , focus for that many hours.

 

Lets talk about professional athletes.

Do you think the pressure to perform and the psychological barriers that they have to over come are easier then what a pro Trader has to deal with? I dont think so.

 

 

The examples I gave above are more relevant to profesional Trader that is managing money.

Retailers, traders although they have some similar challanges I really dont think they have the same pressure.

 

A 1-20 lot retail trader that that has...

 

1- A proven edge and has been consistently profitable.

2- Well capitalized.

3- 3-5 years of experience being profitable.

 

...will have the similar degrees of work based challenge/stress every work day... that an average Attorney, Real State Agent, or Auto Mechanic will face each day in his work enviornment.

Note, what I mean by degree of challenge / stress is this... If you measure it on a scalof 1-10 the level of stress and performance output needed and then compare the readings from one job to the next.

 

The only way to believe what I said above is to experience it for your self or ask others that are at that stage.

 

off course many will not want to realize this, because its the alure of something that is out of reach that attracts many to this arena in the first place.

Edited September 6, 2009 by sep34