Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

eurotrader

Tick Vs. Time Interval Charts

Recommended Posts

Indeed though I thought AgentKay was talking about 'order book' ticks i.e. not generated by an actual trade (similar to how FX data providers generates ticks). It is my experience that using those as a proxy for volume is not nearly as useful as 'real' ticks. That's not to say the information is not useful, its just rather a dubious proxy for volume.

 

 

ok... yeah, real trades are very different from bid/ask quotes

 

I'm talking about traded ticks and volume

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ticks and Volume have been shown through various research studies by the CME (I believe) to have a high degree of correlation... meaning you can use either.

Rahul

 

 

can you post the link?

 

I don't seem to be able to locate what you are talking about.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Great topic, My 2 cents. low Tic, Vol and range bars will make your indicators fire off faster. So if that is your goal maybe they will help. but Indicators only tell you what price action is doing. I would study price action and price action patterns. I like using the five minute chart and I look for spots were early shorts or longs got sucked in and are jumping out. most of whom are using tic vol range and 1min charts. When they are forced out of their trades they are driving the market in my direction.

 

Also I find it hard to trade with an absent of time. just watch an emini 5 minute chart for a day and pay attention. don't be checking email and IMing. watch the chart. You will see a number of times through out the day that a bar will sell off and stay at its low but just before the bar closes it will shoot to the top of the bar and makes a bull close. It happens all the time. The 89 tic and it indicators are all saying sell. and now your trapped short. Also watch major closes. your 15, 30, 1hr closes.

 

 

I hope some of you try this and give feed back.

 

 

that's a great insight... sounds like anything else, changing markets require one to adapt.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
can you post the link?

 

I don't seem to be able to locate what you are talking about.

 

hmm, I just spent 30 minutes trying to find it as well, no luck.

 

I did find a couple studies referring to the difference between volume and trades (ticks) for mature markets vs emerging markets.

 

 

Emerald: Article Request - Trade size, trade frequency, and the volatility-volume relation

 

ScienceDirect - Journal of Financial Economics : Trade size, order imbalance, and the volatility–volume relation*1

 

 

This leads me to suspect that each market might need to be handled differently... or that preferred trading style will lead you to trade different markets.

 

Rahul

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I believe TradeStation displays inside bid/ask.... however, I'm unsure if it displays historical information or displays based on how long the chart is kept open.

 

Sorry but you are missing the point.

 

 

The quote to which the reference was made:

 

My favorite chart is one that shows you each individual price change based on the inside market because that is the only chart that does not require arbitrary parameters and it makes S&R easier to determine.

 

So it is not about showing bid/ask at some moment which many charting software does.

 

It is more about defining a distinct kind of charts that is different from the well-known types that take their basis from time, tick count, range or overall trade volume.

For all kinds of charts there must be a point when a new bar (or candle) starts. For time based that is after some time (e.g. 5 min), tick based some number of trade ticks (e.g. 100) and so on.

I understand the posting so that it is (theoretically) possible to start a new bar dependent on how much volume was traded at bid or ask.

 

The reaction of AgeKay to my request for further information makes me believe that he wrote his post rather theoretical - perhaps inspired by the other posting also.

 

 

Two things make me doubt that such charts exist or are of value:

 

- I cannot see depending on which condition exactly a new bar should be started

 

- Trades at bid and ask are highly manipulated. If you look even at a high-speed data stream you find that quite often there are subsequent trades that come in so fast that the quote source has not enough time to adjust bid or ask. Therefore it is easily possible that a trade that happened at bid is seen as a trade that happened at ask and vice versa.

The manipulation/disguise makes sense because if just from "hammering the ask with trades" you could know with a high chance that price is/will be going up it would be much too simple to make money from this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Also I find it hard to trade with an absent of time. just watch an emini 5 minute chart for a day and pay attention. don't be checking email and IMing. watch the chart . You will see a number of times through out the day that a bar will sell off and stay at its low but just before the bar closes it will shoot to the top of the bar and makes a bull close.

 

In my view this is a very important point that makes a difference between traders - staying alert, watching what happens.

 

I think it is so important, because the information you can get through watching does not later appear in a conventional chart!

If you do not watch it while it happens there is no way to see it later on the chart.

On the other hand this is a close to impossible task: Only a few will be able to stay alert for hours, watch every little move and recognize what it means.

 

 

There is only a minor number of variables in any data stream:

- price, time, volume

- with regard to either trade happened or order level in the book

 

Putting as much of this information together into a graphical presentation in a way that you can still digest makes a difference.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is more about defining a distinct kind of charts that is different from the well-known types that take their basis from time, tick count, range or overall trade volume.

 

Right.

 

I understand the posting so that it is (theoretically) possible to start a new bar dependent on how much volume was traded at bid or ask.

 

Wrong.

 

The reaction of AgeKay to my request for further information makes me believe that he wrote his post rather theoretical - perhaps inspired by the other posting also.

 

It's no theoretical and not inspired by the other post. I have an actual working version of this. I just don't want to post a screenshot of it. I have already talked more about it than I originally intended to. I am willing to trade ideas if they are original, but no free lunch for you.

 

- Trades at bid and ask are highly manipulated. If you look even at a high-speed data stream you find that quite often there are subsequent trades that come in so fast that the quote source has not enough time to adjust bid or ask. Therefore it is easily possible that a trade that happened at bid is seen as a trade that happened at ask and vice versa.

The manipulation/disguise makes sense because if just from "hammering the ask with trades" you could know with a high chance that price is/will be going up it would be much too simple to make money from this.

 

This is simply untrue. Trades at bid and ask are not manipulated. If your data stream cannot keep up with the volume of data, then you have a crappy data stream. Get a good one instead of making up conspiracy theories.

Edited by Soultrader
redirect link removed

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On the other hand this is a close to impossible task: Only a few will be able to stay alert for hours, watch every little move and recognize what it means.

 

 

There is only a minor number of variables in any data stream:

- price, time, volume

- with regard to either trade happened or order level in the book

 

Putting as much of this information together into a graphical presentation in a way that you can still digest makes a difference.

 

That's what I was trying to accomplish with my custom charts. There is way too much information being ignored by bar charts and you can't keep everything in your head (especially me). I could actually take a break and not miss any information.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's why I use Dynamic Pic Bars - DPB

 

What is a Dynamic Pic Bar? A google search returns zero hits so my hunch is it's a phrase you have coined for something proprietary?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
What is a Dynamic Pic Bar? A google search returns zero hits so my hunch is it's a phrase you have coined for something proprietary?

 

Proprietary and highly accurate and reliable.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh OK I wondered because the charts you have posted in the past to demonstrate trading decisions you made in your journal thread where 'regular' charts. Is this a new development or was there always a 'secret sauce'? Just curious.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ahh OK I wondered because the charts you have posted in the past to demonstrate trading decisions you made in your journal thread where 'regular' charts. Is this a new development or was there always a 'secret sauce'? Just curious.

 

Exclusive New Development in Price Action Technical Analysis.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ahh OK I wondered because the charts you have posted in the past to demonstrate trading decisions you made in your journal thread where 'regular' charts. Is this a new development or was there always a 'secret sauce'? Just curious.

 

Blowfish,

 

Without even a hint as to concept or construction and not even a cherry-picked graph and with claims like - "Proprietary and highly accurate and reliable" and "Exclusive New Development in Price Action Technical Analysis" I believe you are right about these DPB's being based on a "Secret Sauce." Further I think that our collective noses are beginning to detect the main ingredient of that sauce.

 

Cheers

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
    • there is no avoiding loses to be honest, its just how the market is. you win some and hopefully more, but u do lose some. 
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.