Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

romek222

The Most Unbelievable and Controversial Techniques

Recommended Posts

Controversial...

 

Hmmmm...

 

The first one that comes to mind is Jack Hershey. Plenty on him over at elitetrader.

 

Then you have methods based on moon patterns, weather changes, etc. Those are pretty wild if you ask me.

 

Some would say that Gann's work is iffy at best, some love fibs, others hate them...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Funnily enough some of JH's stuff has roots in reasonably solid techniques. Certainly controversial. Gann published some really solid principles too (money management stuff, quantifying price action etc.) The controversial stuff is all the esoteric 'natural law' and planetary motion portions. Apparently its all locked away in code in his novel tunnel through the air.

 

I was going to suggest some of the out and out scammers that are around now but I guess to be truly controversial you need a small element of 'well maybe it has something'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....gann has a bad rep....

.... all his stuff is based on simple concepts of geometry....

....if you can draw a rectangle on a chart.... then you are on the path of gann...

....it is beside the point if he discovered his techniques by reading the bible....

...edit... jack hershey also has a bad rep.... because his writing is loony...

... if you can draw a channel on a chart..... then that is jack hershey....pretty basic...

:0)

Funnily enough some of JH's stuff has roots in reasonably solid techniques. Certainly controversial. Gann published some really solid principles too (money management stuff, quantifying price action etc.) The controversial stuff is all the esoteric 'natural law' and planetary motion portions. Apparently its all locked away in code in his novel tunnel through the air.

I was going to suggest some of the out and out scammers that are around now but I guess to be truly controversial you need a small element of 'well maybe it has something'.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi, I would like to read any summary of criticisms of VSA (not to argue, just to learn).

 

Thanks.

 

Bigdave,

 

I will give you my observation once and then I will let it be for fear of the VSA'ers hacking my computer and deleting all my pretty candlesticks.

 

;)

 

My issue with VSA is this - you look at the threads on VSA and you will find people discussing one chart and half say there was a buy and half say there was a sell. And a few might say do nothing. It's too vague for my liking.

 

:doh:

 

For me, if we are using the same techniques, I can't see how one can argue for a buy and one can argue for a sell. Just doesn't add up to me.

 

But, that's me and I like things a little more clearer. That's probably why I've studied candlesticks and a few other things intently b/c in the candlestick world, I personally find things a little more clean cut.

 

There's my personal :2c: & I won't comment further on the topic. Check it yourself and make your own decision. I made mine.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

:doh:

 

For me, if we are using the same techniques, I can't see how one can argue for a buy and one can argue for a sell. Just doesn't add up to me.

 

But, that's me and I like things a little more clearer. That's probably why I've studied candlesticks and a few other things intently b/c in the candlestick world, I personally find things a little more clean cut.

 

 

And candlesticks are clear cut mmkay. :)

 

BDD have a search for a thread called VSA crock or not? Or something like that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the comments -- I've been reading that thread as well, and I believe that there might be some merit in the general concept, but that the level of detail applied is probably beyond curve fitting, and the explanations of motivations of the market are stretches.

 

Having said that, I'm going to do some testing on the general concept of weighting range against volume and see what correlation results.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You will find that range and volume are 'fairly well' correlated :) Of course run the numbers for yourself though. Heavy instrument (e.g. ES) seem to be more so than thinner ones (Z). I only ever looked at a couple of indexes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think Astrology is the most "far out" aspect of trading. That is why Gann got such a freaky rep. I am told that near the end of his life Gann decided to cover his body with geometric tatoos that he used to forecast trades. Lets, see oh yeah there was Joe Granville who thought he could trade by forecasting the low frequency waves that caused earthquakes. Then there's General George McClellan, inventor of the "McClellan Oscillator". McClellan was a confederate general and early riser who liked to stand in front of his tent in his skivvies playing "Battle Hymn of the Republic" on his bugle, all the while discharging his revolver at passing birds. Finally, If I remember correctly, Wells Wilder used to eat psychedelic mushrooms, and then stand naked in the forest with his index finger just touching the top of his head. He would turn seven times and without opening his eyes, walk ten steps forward. If he hit a tree he would short the market that day. If he hit nothing he would go long at the open.

 

I once had a discussion with Dick Cheney on this subject. He seemed to have a real interest in General McClellan, saying that one day he too wanted to try playing the bugle while discharging weapons randomly.

 

I hope this helps.

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am inclined to agree with you about Gann Steve as you will see from my earlier post. Having said that he had a rock solid grip of price action and money management. Nothing esoteric there.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes I did notice your post. what I find interesting is that there are folks who use some of these approaches (astrology for instance) who for reasons I cannot fathom are really good traders. For instance there's a guy in Australia who uses Gann numbers and Astrology and I have seen him really hit it out of the park. I have no idea how he does it, except to say that he has a very good feel for market action. Just one of the ongoing mysteries of the universe I guess.

 

Good luck in the Markets

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have a friend who is a pretty good trader in his own account. He also works in the city on a contract basis. In short he is a bright sort of guy. He is fascinated by this 'natural law' stuff. (They call it that so people don't think they are crackpots :)) He's always researching, sending charts, and telling me days I should be watching. Again he can read price action and has a good grasp of money management.

 

I guess it's essentially cycle stuff, but can't you just measure a swing high to swing high to find a 'cycle'? I do see how a timing method that is based on time (rather than price), or that gives a point in time, could be quite complimentary to a price orientated approach.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Clearly there are many manifestations of cyclic behavior in the markets. The most obvious are those that are the result of simple human behavior. For instance, one can observe specific changes in volume and price movement every day from just before noon until about 1:30 EST. Other examples include the timing of margin calls, events such as earnings, bond auctions and FOMC meetings all have a cyclic nature. Important Tax deadlines and other events (so called "window dressing" dates) are predictable and cyclic in nature.

 

If you spend any time in an open outcry pit, you can see the cyclical nature of the open every day as retail trades enter the market on open, then the locals move in to absorb that paper and mark the market up or down in response. As one might predict, those same locals almost always go too far in a given direction, and are caught with their hands in the cookie jar when institutions come in to buy or sell. One after another, first the weak hands, then the less skilled locals puke their positions while the smart money takes the market where they want it. All of it is cyclical in nature and contributes to the feeling that markets exhibit a very tidal nature. After all this time, I really don't give it much thought. I just accept it as a part of the game.

 

Good luck everyone

 

Steve

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I always thought that the Wolfe Wave was a pretty odd-ball method, but damned accurate at times - particularly with the projection from the 1 through the 4 points. The entry is always difficult because you are catching a falling knife. I traded the WW for a long time with one excellent trader who traded the Wolfe Wave exclusively. He slept, ate & breathed WWs. He really was good at trading these across the S&Ps and various commodities. We both took the course from Bill Wolfe and I think this guy outdid his mentor. In any event, I could never trade them consistently enough, though they certainly can be traded well.

 

I also think VSA is controversial because controversial people see it as controversial. It must be in their genes :)

 

Eiger

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filed under "Neurosis Can Be Fun"

 

"what I find interesting is that there are folks who use some of these approaches (astrology for instance) who for reasons I cannot fathom are really good traders."

 

"I think Astrology is the most "far out" aspect of trading."

 

"He is fascinated by this 'natural law' stuff. (They call it that so people don't think they are crackpots )"

 

Reality exists. Call reality by another name, and few will investigate it. Note what current science many 'Bible' passages represent and note how much was left out of the 'Bible' to obfuscate that. Then look at that science's mythological representations/forms.

 

Gann was quite sane and clearly questioned all he ever thought he understood. He then stated only what he could prove he understood so plainly...that most miss it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Filed under "Neurosis Can Be Fun"

 

"what I find interesting is that there are folks who use some of these approaches (astrology for instance) who for reasons I cannot fathom are really good traders."

 

"I think Astrology is the most "far out" aspect of trading."

 

"He is fascinated by this 'natural law' stuff. (They call it that so people don't think they are crackpots )"

 

Reality exists. Call reality by another name, and few will investigate it. Note what current science many 'Bible' passages represent and note how much was left out of the 'Bible' to obfuscate that. Then look at that science's mythological representations/forms.

 

Gann was quite sane and clearly questioned all he ever thought he understood. He then stated only what he could prove he understood so plainly...that most miss it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • How's about other crypto exchanges? Are all they banned in your country or only Binance?
    • Be careful who you blame.   I can tell you one thing for sure.   Effective traders don’t blame others when things start to go wrong.   You can hang onto your tendency to play the victim, or the martyr… but if you want to achieve in trading, you have to be prepared to take responsibility.   People assign reasons to outcomes, whether based on internal or external factors.   When traders face losses, it's common for them to blame bad luck, poor advice, or other external factors, rather than reflecting on their own personal attributes like arrogance, fear, or greed.   This is a challenging lesson to grasp in your trading journey, but one that holds immense value.   This is called attribution theory. Taking responsibility for your actions is the key to improving your trading skills. Pause and ask yourself - What role did I play in my financial decisions?   After all, you were the one who listened to that source, and decided to act on that trade based on the rumour. Attributing results solely to external circumstances is what is known as having an ‘external locus of control’.   It's a concept coined by psychologist Julian Rotter in 1954. A trader with an external locus of control might say, "I made a profit because the markets are currently favourable."   Instead, strive to develop an "internal locus of control" and take ownership of your actions.   Assume that all trading results are within your realm of responsibility and actively seek ways to improve your own behaviour.   This is the fastest route to enhancing your trading abilities. A trader with an internal locus of control might proudly state, "My equity curve is rising because I am a disciplined trader who faithfully follows my trading plan." Author: Louise Bedford Source: https://www.tradinggame.com.au/
    • SELF IMPROVEMENT.   The whole self-help industry began when Dale Carnegie published How to Win Friends and Influence People in 1936. Then came other classics like Think And Grow Rich by Napoleon Hill, Awaken the Giant Within by Tony Robbins toward the end of the century.   Today, teaching people how to improve themselves is a business. A pure ruthless business where some people sell utter bullshit.   There are broke Instagrammers and YouTubers with literally no solid background teaching men how to be attractive to women, how to begin a start-up, how to become successful — most of these guys speaking nothing more than hollow motivational words and cliche stuff. They waste your time. Some of these people who present themselves as hugely successful also give talks and write books.   There are so many books on financial advice, self-improvement, love, etc and some people actually try to read them. They are a waste of time, mostly.   When you start reading a dozen books on finance you realize that they all say the same stuff.   You are not going to live forever in the learning phase. Don't procrastinate by reading bull-shit or the same good knowledge in 10 books. What we ought to do is choose wisely.   Yes. A good book can change your life, given you do what it asks you to do.   All the books I have named up to now are worthy of reading. Tim Ferriss, Simon Sinek, Robert Greene — these guys are worthy of reading. These guys teach what others don't. Their books are unique and actually, come from relevant and successful people.   When Richard Branson writes a book about entrepreneurship, go read it. Every line in that book is said by one of the greatest entrepreneurs of our time.   When a Chinese millionaire( he claims to be) Youtuber who releases a video titled “Why reading books keeps you broke” and a year later another one “My recommendation of books for grand success” you should be wise to tell him to jump from Victoria Falls.   These self-improvement gurus sell you delusions.   They say they have those little tricks that only they know that if you use, everything in your life will be perfect. Those little tricks. We are just “making of a to-do-list before sleeping” away from becoming the next Bill Gates.   There are no little tricks.   There is no success-mantra.   Self-improvement is a trap for 99% of the people. You can't do that unless you are very, very strong.   If you are looking for easy ways, you will only keep wasting your time forgetting that your time on this planet is limited, as alive humans that is.   Also, I feel that people who claim to read like a book a day or promote it are idiots. You retain nothing. When you do read a good book, you read slow, sometimes a whole paragraph, again and again, dwelling on it, trying to internalize its knowledge. You try to understand. You think. It takes time.   It's better to read a good book 10 times than 1000 stupid ones.   So be choosy. Read from the guys who actually know something, not some wannabe ‘influencers’.   Edit: Think And Grow Rich was written as a result of a project assigned to Napoleon Hill by Andrew Carnegie(the 2nd richest man in recent history). He was asked to study the most successful people on the planet and document which characteristics made them great. He did extensive work in studying hundreds of the most successful people of that time. The result was that little book.   Nowadays some people just study Instagram algorithms and think of themselves as a Dale Carnegie or Anthony Robbins. By Nupur Nishant, Quora Profits from free accurate cryptos signals: https://www.predictmag.com/    
    • there is no avoiding loses to be honest, its just how the market is. you win some and hopefully more, but u do lose some. 
    • $CSCO Cisco Systems stock, nice top of range breakout, from Stocks to Watch at https://stockconsultant.com/?CSCOSEPN Septerna stock watch for a bottom breakout, good upside price gap
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.