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trbates

Complex Order Help for TradeStation

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Hi,

 

I posted this on the TradeStation Forums ... but they were less then helpful :) So I thought I would try you all ... and see if I couldnt get some help. Basically I'm looking for either how to do this order, or if you do something similar if I could use your order as a template that would be great as well. Below, I will copy/paste the original Post ...

 

<Begin Copy/Pasted Text>

I am new to TradeStation and was wondering if the platform was capable of handling this order ...

 

I scalp the YM and would like for my protective stop to move with profit.

 

What I was thinking is something along the lines of ...

 

Enter at Market

Once I have 5 points profit in the trade I would like to move my stop to break even.

Once I have 8 Points, then move the stop to 5 points profit.

Once I have 10 Points, then move the stop to 8 Points Profit.

Once I have 15 Points, then either trail the stop by 3 points (or if its easier ... put my stop to 10 points with a final target of 20 points)

 

This way, the trade doesnt end until I am stopped out.

 

Is this possible?

 

Thanks

 

<End Copy/Pasted Text>

 

Any insights into how I might accomplish something like this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Travis

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Enter at Market

Once I have 5 points profit in the trade I would like to move my stop to break even.

Once I have 8 Points, then move the stop to 5 points profit.

Once I have 10 Points, then move the stop to 8 Points Profit.

Once I have 15 Points, then either trail the stop by 3 points (or if its easier ... put my stop to 10 points with a final target of 20 points)

 

 

Travis - no idea how to do this on TS, but I will say this - you are going to get ticked out on that first stop movement alone, you mind as well take it all off at +5 or +8.

 

+5 on the YM and moving stop to BE is just asking for a tiny, tiny wiggle to take you out of the trade.

 

I can tell this is an extremely defensive, "I do not want to lose" strategy. And IMO will be a loser over time.

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I scalp the YM and would like for my protective stop to move with profit.

 

Is this possible?

 

 

Travis,

 

To answer your question...

 

The AT platform should be able to handle this easily. You can setup a trading account with several brokers to use it, including Transact and Infinity.

 

Ask Infinity Tom for more info on the software, including a tutorial.

 

-fs

 

P.S. Brownie has a point; you're not giving your trade enough wiggle room in case of a retracement.

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Travis,

 

To answer your question...

 

The AT platform should be able to handle this easily. You can setup a trading account with several brokers to use it, including Transact and Infinity.

 

Ask Infinity Tom for more info on the software, including a tutorial.

 

-fs

 

P.S. Brownie has a point; you're not giving your trade enough wiggle room in case of a retracement.

 

Yeah, you could do the same thing in the Open ECry software as well, but not sure it's worth the time to configure it...

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I posted this on the TradeStation Forums ... but they were less then helpful :) I am new to TradeStation and was wondering if the platform was capable of handling this order ...

I scalp the YM and would like for my protective stop to move with profit.

 

Enter at Market

Once I have 5 points profit in the trade I would like to move my stop to break even.

Once I have 8 Points, then move the stop to 5 points profit.

Once I have 10 Points, then move the stop to 8 Points Profit.

Once I have 15 Points, then either trail the stop by 3 points (or if its easier ... put my stop to 10 points with a final target of 20 points)

 

This way, the trade doesnt end until I am stopped out.

 

Is this possible?

Travis

 

The TS DOM is not something built for the discretionary trader for complex orders, although you can create macros with the macro wizard and use the .PlaceOrder macro command and the PlaceOrder function to issue orders to the market.

https://www.tradestation.com/Discussions/Topic.aspx?Topic_ID=62739

 

 

 

If you do a lot of discretionary trading, you may want to try the various DOM add ons such as Ninjatrader, Brackettrader, Buttontrader, Zerolinetrader etc...

 

Brackettrader is free 5 contracts and under and the fixed 3 built in symbols (ES, NQ and ER2, I believe); works with IB (Interactivebroker).

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Yeah, you could do the same thing in the Open ECry software as well, but not sure it's worth the time to configure it...

 

True. And the brackets are held on your machine (client-side) instead on server-side at OEC. Plus the brackets disappear if you lose connectivity or log off.

 

Pretty clunky implementation, IMHO.

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This strategy is clearly for scalping but I dont think one could tell if it was functional without the the question asked of how many points is your stop when you enter? In other words what is your risk/reward? If you got stopped 50% and hit your target 50% would you be negative profit or, break even, or positive?

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Wow, thanks everyone for the input. The numbers I used are more for ease than anything else. Its more important that I learn how to set up an order like this, rather than the above being a functional strategy.

 

That said, I am really only looking for 5 pts per trade. The idea would be if the current (fast) trend were to continue, quickly and in a straight line, I might be able to take a bit more out of the trade ... though still with the initial 5 pt target being all that I am really after anyway.

 

As far as my initial stop, I've been experimenting with a stop just above whatever resistance area is nearest my entry. For example ... I go short (personally prefer going short, but thats besides the point) when a range is broken to the downside. I would then put my stop just above previous support, thinking that if new resistance gets broken I want to be out and try the next move.

 

My thought process being ... commission is pretty cheap. If the move doesnt really materialize then I dont mind breaking even, or coming close to it, and getting in again on the next move/wave. Though, if the move does follow through then, well ... gravy :)

 

Oh, also my time frame is within minutes ... I don't really like holding a trade for more than say 5 minutes. Hence, the small target size. This will probably change as I get more experience, but for now thats what I'm comfortable with.

 

Again, thanks everyone on the comments and I welcome any criticisms you might have :)

 

Travis

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I will not get into the discussion of scaling out since there are many valid strategies that use probabilities in choosing multiple targets. Also, your original question was about the broker, not the strategy.

 

However, I would STRONGLY suggest that you try both the Infinity and OEC demos. If you are an active futures day trader there are better options out there for execution than TS. I even know of several individuals that trade the minimum required a month at TS to keep the charting while using another broker for execution. In my opinion it's also always good to have more than one broker in case of technical issues.

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Hlm probably has the best advice so far as you are most likely trying out different platforms after initially trying Tradestation (TS). These two threads talked about Infinity and OEC: http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f3/infinity-at-trade-performance-analysis-3163.html

http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f32/demo-or-paper-trading-for-e-3725.html

 

One platform that could take data from TS and do trade simulations is Ninjatrader (NT), and that is certainly a free for simulation platform that you should try out. Their DOM is competent enough and feature rich enough and their simulator is probably as good as any out there (IMHO, it is better than the newly released TS simulator because you could quickly switch from simulation to live and you could replay any recorded data for further practice and analysis). Beware that actual live trading with NT is not free and there is no way to trade with TS- RJOBrien as the broker because TS does not allow an open API to route the live orders using a third party software such as Ninjatrader.

What you will learn from NT is not all for loss because there are many other brokers that will take live trade signals from NT.

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trbates,

If your question is if TS strategy ( in auto mode) can do the scaling as in your example, the answer is yes. You would have to program the strat using EL. If you were to try to do that discretionary from Dome ( matrix) in TS, then it would be hard to do. Complex orders are possible in TS, but they are static, and can be adjusted manually, but not in rapid trading with such a close stops.

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Hi,

 

I posted this on the TradeStation Forums ... but they were less then helpful :) So I thought I would try you all ... and see if I couldnt get some help. Basically I'm looking for either how to do this order, or if you do something similar if I could use your order as a template that would be great as well. Below, I will copy/paste the original Post ...

 

<Begin Copy/Pasted Text>

I am new to TradeStation and was wondering if the platform was capable of handling this order ...

 

I scalp the YM and would like for my protective stop to move with profit.

 

What I was thinking is something along the lines of ...

 

Enter at Market

Once I have 5 points profit in the trade I would like to move my stop to break even.

Once I have 8 Points, then move the stop to 5 points profit.

Once I have 10 Points, then move the stop to 8 Points Profit.

Once I have 15 Points, then either trail the stop by 3 points (or if its easier ... put my stop to 10 points with a final target of 20 points)

 

This way, the trade doesnt end until I am stopped out.

 

Is this possible?

 

Thanks

 

<End Copy/Pasted Text>

 

Any insights into how I might accomplish something like this would be greatly appreciated.

 

Travis

 

Travis,

 

AT has a trailing stop function.

For example:

You can originally enter the market with a 10 tick stop loss.

Once market moves 8 ticks in your favor stop will move to 3 tics below the market and trail the market tick for tick.

 

AT has a stop loss to break even function

For example:

You can originally enter the market with a 10 tick stop loss.

Once market moves 8 ticks in your favor stop can move to break even plus 1 tick which should ensure you at least break even and cover costs.

 

AT has a multiple bracket & trailing stop function

For example:

You can set the original stop loss to 10 ticks

Profit objective of 5,10,15 ticks.

Trailing stop can trail market by 5 ticks,once market moves 11 tics in your favor.

In this scenario stop is entered normally with 10 tick stop loss.

market moves in favor of trader 11 tics - meaning first two profit objectives filled.

Last profit objective can be left were it is or it can be manually canceled leaving unlimited upside profit potential with trailing stop automatically moving 5 ticks below market all the way up.

 

Hope this helps.

 

Best regards,

 

 

Tom

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I'm no expert, but your exit strategy in EasyLanguage for TS might go somethting like this:

 

Input:

InitalStopValue(20);

 

Variables:

MyStop(0),

Target1(false),

Target2(false),

Target3(false);

 

// Place Your Buy Condition Here

 

{ Entry Code }

 

 

// Exit strategy for long trades

 

If (MarketPosition = 1 ) Then

Begin

 

If ( OpenpositionProfit < 25 ) Then

MyStop = InitalStopValue;

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 25 ) And ( Target1 = false ) Then

Begin

MyStop = EntryPrice;

Target1 = true;

End;

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 40 ) And ( Target2 = false ) Then

Begin

MyStop = EntryPrice + 5;

Target2 = true;

End;

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 50 ) And ( Target3 = false ) Then

Begin

MyStop = EntryPrice + 8;

Target3 = true;

End;

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 75 ) Then

Begin

Sell("20pt Target") next bar at EntryPrice+20 limit;

MyStop = EntryPrice + 10;

End;

 

 

// Sell on MyStop

 

Sell("Stop") next bar at MyStop stop;

 

End;

 

// Reset target flags once position is closed

 

If ( MarketPosition = 0 ) Then

Begin

Target1 = false;

Target2 = false;

Target3 = false;

End;

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"If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 25 ) And ( Target1 = false ) Then

Begin"

 

i dont understand the "target1 = false" statement. ive had a look in the easylanguage dictionary but it said its reserved for futures use. Whats the equivalent for forex?

 

+ what happens if the openpositionprofit becomes less than 25, will the stop still exist if the openpositionprofit had been greater than 25 during the trade?

 

cheers

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Target1 = FALSE is changed once the first target has been reached to Target1=TRUE, so that the next target(2) can be processed and Target1 will not take off any more contracts.

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On 6/5/2008 at 2:43 PM, swansjr said:

I'm no expert, but your exit strategy in EasyLanguage for TS might go somethting like this:

 

 

 

Input:

 

InitalStopValue(20);

 

 

 

Variables:

 

MyStop(0),

 

Target1(false),

 

Target2(false),

 

Target3(false);

 

 

 

// Place Your Buy Condition Here

 

 

 

{ Entry Code }

 

 

 

 

 

// Exit strategy for long trades

 

 

 

If (MarketPosition = 1 ) Then

 

Begin

 

 

 

If ( OpenpositionProfit < 25 ) Then

 

MyStop = InitalStopValue;

 

 

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 25 ) And ( Target1 = false ) Then

 

Begin

 

MyStop = EntryPrice;

 

Target1 = true;

 

End;

 

 

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 40 ) And ( Target2 = false ) Then

 

Begin

 

MyStop = EntryPrice + 5;

 

Target2 = true;

 

End;

 

 

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 50 ) And ( Target3 = false ) Then

 

Begin

 

MyStop = EntryPrice + 8;

 

Target3 = true;

 

End;

 

 

 

If ( OpenPositionProfit >= 75 ) Then

 

Begin

 

Sell("20pt Target") next bar at EntryPrice+20 limit;

 

MyStop = EntryPrice + 10;

 

End;

 

 

 

 

 

// Sell on MyStop

 

 

 

Sell("Stop") next bar at MyStop stop;

 

 

 

End;

 

 

 

// Reset target flags once position is closed

 

 

 

If ( MarketPosition = 0 ) Then

 

Begin

 

Target1 = false;

 

Target2 = false;

 

Target3 = false;

 

End;

 

Is there a way to add an order line to the stops for a visual reference?

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    • I'm gonna pull a crazyCzarina and reply to a long dead post ... One sure thing about trading forums - The great questions never get an answer.  Ask  even the greatest posters a great question... silence, no nothin’, not even crickets.          First a few comments about Elliott Wave Wave Theory is a ‘science’ of socionomics.  Socionomics is about how societal ideas ‘ideally’ or typically unfold -  wave 1 is the early adapters, wave 3 is broad collective acceptance, wave 5 is continuing valuation narratives but with narrowing collective assessment of actual value... with all kinds of ‘ideal’ sub patterns... Socionomics starts with a simple observation: For lots of issues, how people FEEL influences how they will BEHAVE.  (Equally true = How people BEHAVE influences how they will FEEL... but that’s for another topic) Anyways... Elliott Wave theory is an attempt to apply socionomics  to trading   - and  yes analyst75 “theory” is the key word.  Imo, it’s a jump too far.   First, price is not a good metric for socionomics.... especially across decades when currencies are being viciously  'corrupted'.   And practically, socionomics does not transfer over to trading nearly to the degree Ellioticians would like.   It simply does not deliver enough of those ‘ideal’ sub patterns because  crowds of traders’ behaviors and ‘feelings’ about pricing are not sufficient equivalents of broader collective behaviors / socionomic waves... ESPECIALLY as time frames shorten... (ie waves may appear to ‘fractal’ down ... but they really don’t.)   If you’re going to use EW to trade, probably the most important point you can acknowledge is that 5 wave patterns are EXCEPTIONS to normal trading crowd behavior ie  the best thing a 5 wave pattern indicates is that corrective patterns will soon resume.  I’ve described it differently in other posts*  ... but basically, at any given point in time it is possible to reasonably project that ANY freakin wave ‘count’ / pattern will enfold.   It is just as reasonable to project that a nice 5 wave completion will go on to a nice 7 or 11 or 17 or whatever wave count as it is to project that the market will now have a ‘trend’ change.  At the end of any nice 3 wave corrective pattern, either projecting a huge 5 wave pattern unfolding in the other direction or projecting a long flat congestive pattern or another 3 wave correction pattern... or... all are equally reasonable.  Or, a pretty wave 1, 2, and 3 doesn’t not mean a pretty wave 5 will unfold.  Ie it’s just as reasonable to count it over and project that the next sequence will be corrective or a 5 wave impulsive move in the opposite direction. etc etc       ... to get back to the unanswered question - So what do you propose as an alternate? Long ago I read Hurst.  In a short section of his book he mentioned it.  It didn’t sink in.  Then one day it really hit me.  There is no Elliott wave sequence or any other ‘technical’ price pattern that cannot be better explained via ‘summation of cycles’ ...   * fun example can be seen by searching for 'trading chaos by bill williams' thread on t2w ... TL is so special we don't even allow links to other trading forums? ... other snarky EW comments at http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/topic/7555-do-you-use-the-elliott-wave-to-trade/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-146022      
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