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Old 07-05-2009, 02:12 PM   #9

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Thanks for sharing this. I know several people wanted a more in-depth description of what you do. Perhaps you might be able to show some real-time analysis of these concepts this coming week? As you know full well, annotating a chart in hindsight is very different from being able to do the same thing real time (which is very different from being able to act on observations).
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Old 07-05-2009, 02:42 PM   #10

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydertrader »
Gaussians

The Volume Sequences (represented by Dominant and Non-Dominant Gaussian Formation) when matched with the above drawn trend lines for each trading fractal create the B2B 2R 2B (uptrend) cycle, as well as, the R2R 2B 2R (downtrend) cycle. Increasing Volume in the direction of the current trend represents dominant Volume. We represent such phenomenon with an increasing Gaussian line in our Volume Pane with the goal of syncing our trend lines with our Gaussian lines of equal weight See Attached.



To Be Continued ...

- Spydertrader
So price and volume move in sync, as you have illustrated, with price and volume peaking at the the same moment. No argument with that. How do get from this to "volume leads price".
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Old 07-05-2009, 03:19 PM   #11

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by atto »
Perhaps you might be able to show some real-time analysis of these concepts this coming week? As you know full well, annotating a chart in hindsight is very different from being able to do the same thing real time (which is very different from being able to act on observations).
There are five threads over at ET with a combined 5135 pages (and counting) devoted to this method.

Having not subjected myself to reading the full 5135 pages, I cannot say for certain that there is not one real time example where both technical analysis and a specific trading action were simultaneously posted, but if such a real time example exists, I have not found it. If one does exist, it still does not excuse the OP and his cohorts from having ignored repeated request by myself and others that they show how their method is applied in real time.

I doubt that Jack Hershey (aka Mr. Black) or Spydertrader or any of their followers will ever post real time analysis with a concurrent tradable action. I hope I am wrong, because if they were to do so, then folks could begin to discuss and debate the merits or demerits of the method intelligently.

Here is an excellent mini-essay on Jack Hershey and his method:

http://www.tradersnarrative.com/jack...ethod-971.html

The author of that essay cites a caution from Curtis Faith's Way of the Turtle that would be very instructive for any newcomer to the trading world (or those not so new but nonetheless still struggling) to type, print out, and tape to his or her computer monitor:

"One sure sign of a Pseudo-expert is writing that is unclear and difficult to follow. Unclear writing comes from unclear thinking. A true expert will be able to explain complicated ideas in ways that are clear and easy to understand."

All the information that is posted here by the OP can be found at the beginning of the ET threads. If there is to be no real progress to communicate the application in real time of this method here at TL, then perhaps he will at least explain his motives for bringing it here.

I know this post will likely be reported. I know that it may be deleted. I would hope that James refrains from doing so.

TL participants need to press on with the request that the OP demonstrate the method he represents in real time. If he does so, then we will have a wonderful opportunity to discuss, debate, and possibly learn something that might be put to real use (I will always maintain an open mind in the face of real-life, practical examples; but I also maintain a healthy skepticism in the face of nothing other than pedantic pronouncements of self-professed absolutes). If he does not provide such examples, then we will have protected all but the most desperate from being fooled into wasting precious time and money learning a method of dubious practical value.

Best Wishes,

Thales

Moderated Message:
Thales is expressing an opinion and I do not see the need to moderate this post despite being reported several times. Until further disputes escalate, this post will remain as it is. Thank you. - Soultrader -
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Last edited by thalestrader; 07-05-2009 at 03:27 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old 07-05-2009, 03:47 PM   #12

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

First, whatever does or does not go on at ET is irrelevant to what goes on at TL.

Second, neither Spydertrader nor Jack Hershey are required to prove anything to anybody unless they are selling something.

Third, there is no such thing as a "real-time" trade posted to a message board. Even if there were, neither Spytrader nor Jack Hershey are required to post one. Nor are either of them required to provide real-time trades in chat, particularly since such trades can also be massaged and do not offer proof of anything.

Fourth, TL members do not need to "press on" with anything. The chief difference between ET and TL is that TL members will examine a particular assertion or approach or "method", and, if it appears that there is no substance to it, they will ignore it, and it will drop to the bottom of the barrel. ET members, on the other hand, will launch into multi-hundred-post threads which consist mostly of personal attacks, insupportable rebuttals, and so forth.

If you leave this alone, it will wither since TL members are more interested in the work than in pointless arguments about trivial pursuits. If you don't leave it alone, you will prompt and perpetuate just that outcome which you claim you want to avoid.

Even if it were possible to prevent the gullible from being led down the garden path, one would first have to determine what is or is not a garden path, then determine who is or is not qualified to prevent the gullible from walking it. There are a number of ongoing threads which to me are pure nonsense, and those who follow what's being said in those threads are very likely to come to grief. But even if I could prove beyond any reasonable doubt that they are wasting their time, it's really none of my business. People have to do what people have to do, and no one has a lock on the path to profitability.

Locusts swarm and then move on.
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Old 07-05-2009, 03:57 PM   #13

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by DbPhoenix »
If you leave this alone, it will wither since TL members are more interested in the work than in pointless arguments about trivial pursuits. If you don't leave it alone, you will prompt and perpetuate just that outcome which you claim you want to avoid.
Though I disagree with your comments concerning the posting of real-time trades, this point is well taken.

I will henceforth leave this alone.

Thank you,

Thales
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:19 PM   #14

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by atto »
Thanks for sharing this.
You are most welcome.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atto »
I know several people wanted a more in-depth description of what you do.
As I indicated in the "Open and Free discussion on Volume" thread, as long as an interest exists, I'm happy to provide a more detailed description of how I trade each day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atto »
Perhaps you might be able to show some real-time analysis of these concepts this coming week?.
I have always been a strong proponent of learning to crawl before choosing to walk, run or fly. All things in due time.


Quote:
Originally Posted by atto »
As you know full well, annotating a chart in hindsight is very different from being able to do the same thing real time (which is very different from being able to act on observations).
I have yet to talk about taking actions, or even seeing the sequences unfold in real time. I've simply offered a way, by which, people can learn to see that which the market provides each and every day.

I don't plan on continuing on with this same thread, post after post, a year (or even a month) from now. However, if, during that time, my words, actions or posts bother people, and whip them into a lather, then I encourage those individuals to stop reading my posts.

- Spydertrader
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Old 07-05-2009, 05:22 PM   #15

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by euclid »
So price and volume move in sync, as you have illustrated, with price and volume peaking at the the same moment. No argument with that. How do get from this to "volume leads price".
Unless and until the Volume Sequences complete on each and every fractal then (and only then) can the Price trend change.

1. Sequences Complete.
2. The market provides a signal for change.
3. The trend changes direction.
4. The process repeats - this time in a different direction.

Volume leads Price. Always.

- Spydertrader
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Old 07-05-2009, 06:41 PM   #16

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Re: The Price / Volume Relationship

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spydertrader »
Unless and until the Volume Sequences complete on each and every fractal then (and only then) can the Price trend change.

1. Sequences Complete.
2. The market provides a signal for change.
3. The trend changes direction.
4. The process repeats - this time in a different direction.

Volume leads Price. Always.

- Spydertrader
And price continues in a straight line while these "volume sequences" complete? I'm questioning your terminology here. You've not shown any volume sequence that isn't coloured by price. For me that's a price and volume sequence. Do you understand what I am saying?
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