[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

Thanks I think here is an interesting lesson here I don't wan't to put words in your mouth but it seems that you would not trade to the short side unless the recent fairly major support is well and truly broken. I can understand that as it keeps you clear of tests and prods looking for stops and such. And of course support that has developed over a month is likely to be a wider zone than support that has developed over an hour or two.

I would would have probably treated this the same way if the same patterns presented itself on a 15 minute chart. And for what its worth, I found in the past that the 6C and I did not get along on the 15 minute, and so I would only trade it if I saw something on a larger scale. Hence, I would treat the USDCAD spot pair the same. I am not at all interested in trying to day trade using a 15 minute trading chart unless it is at a significant S/R visible on a 240 minute or higher time frame.

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

A trade from higher ground(provided there was sufficient room to make target above support) would be a different matter. Presumably you would consider that counter trend so would want to see a good indication that shorter term resistance there was developing.

Right. But again, probably not on this pair.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

I realise this might be over thinking things (a trait that is often not helpful) but I am trying to get a better handle on the contextual cues that you might be acting on (even if sub consciously).

I cannot tell you how much of the "contextual cues" I use comes from two sources:

William O'Neil's How to Make Money in Stocks and the technical chapters of Frost and Prechter's Elliot Wave Theory. Nothing I can say or post will be able to replace the benefit you will get from reading and studying the material and then following along here to see how and where I may be applying it.

One thing I have said here and elsewhere at TL in the past is that S/R is not all that matters. What is as important is 1) how does price get there, and 2) what does it do once it arrives.

Let me give you an example of how I use something I learned from studying O'Neil. You can read the notes on the charts. Each basically has the same information, presented somewhat differently.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by daedalus »

Remember folks - NO ONE DAY SHOULD MAKE OR BREAK YOU OR YOUR ACCOUNT. If you start drawing down hit the panic button and walk. Its only ONE day in your CAREER!

Absolutely! Excellent post, Daedalus.

I wish I could trade with the cool emotionless calm that others apparently are able to muster (most notably here at TL the example of DbPhoenix, who strikes me as the Dr. Spock of the trading world - and I mean that in a most complimentary way).

If I lose twice consecutively, I stop trading. I will still watch the markets, but the trading platform is put away until the next day. I have lost more money "trying to get it back" than the money I initially lost in the first place. Discipline easily goes out the window. I am no longer waiting for my trades. I over trade. I switch down to tick charts and try to finesse a few ticks, doubling and tripling my usual size just "to get back to even."

Even never comes. Ever. I finally learned that I have a two loss limit.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[forrestang]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

Absolutely! Excellent post, Daedalus.

I wish I could trade with the cool emotionless calm that others apparently are able to muster (most notably here at TL the example of DbPhoenix, who strikes me as the Dr. Spock of the trading world - and I mean that in a most complimentary way).

If I lose twice consecutively, I stop trading. I will still watch the markets, but the trading platform is put away until the next day. I have lost more money "trying to get it back" than the money I initially lost in the first place. Discipline easily goes out the window. I am no longer waiting for my trades. I over trade. I switch down to tick charts and try to finesse a few ticks, doubling and tripling my usual size just "to get back to even."

Even never comes. Ever. I finally learned that I have a two loss limit.

Best Wishes,

Thales

Has this thread made you a better trader, explaining what you do? I realize you've been doing this for a looong time so you've surely been proficient at what you do for a while, but did this thread make you better?

By better I don't jst necessarily mean better in terms of the amount of 'time' this thread has been active, but is there anything special you've learned from your postings here?

[thalestrader]

Originally Posted by forrestang »

Has this thread made you a better trader, explaining what you do? ... is there anything special you've learned from your postings here?

Interesting questions. I would say that I have certainly become more conscious of how I have incoprated various ideas and concepts from certain sources into my trading (for example, my above post on William O'Neil and the wedge examples). My interchange with MidK has been especially helpful in that regard. There are certain things that I have come to take into account while making my trading decisions that, while not "subconscious," are nontheless habitual and not necessarily at the level of a "checklist". In other words, I note, for example, price consolidating, the shape of the consolidation, the nature of the rally or decline that preceded that consolidation. Based on that information, I decide whether I am getting ready for a short, a long, or possibly getting ready to trade whichever way the next break comes. I know I am looking at these things, but whereas at one time I would be consciously going through a "mental checklist," I no longer do so. I look out of habit for what I feel is important.

That being said, I am still of the mind that says that what I do is very easy to learn. What is dificult is the emotional control and intellectual discipline both to sit and learn it and then to apply it. My participation in this thread has made more plain to me than ever the central role that emotions play in the success or failure of a trader.

For example, I get many PM's from folks who are struggling. Here is a quote from one I received today (I am removing the Poster's ID out of respect for his/her privacy):

"Hey there, i just read a post you sent up in Dec 08 about the emotional side of trading. Something im struggling with massively. I've been through a few mentors and educators and they've given me a great deal of ideas - prob too many - and helped with analysis but i cant seem to get out of a destructive over trading habit amongst other things.
I was wondering if you knew of anyone that i might be able to trade with / along side of / chat with while im trading? Ive looked at FX and ES.. and had a horrible time of it..

Would really appreciate any help you might be able to give."



And here is my response, which, after having sent it, I thought should be shared here in the thread for all:

Originally Posted by thalestrader

The emotional side of trading is something with which I too continue to struggle. I post to a thread here at TL entitled "Reading Charts in Real Time," and the subject of emotional control comes up frequently.

I do not have anyone to whom I could refer you. But I invite you to participate in the "Reading Charts ..." thread. You might find the support and help you are looking for among the other participants of that thread, and it will not cost you anything but your time to find that out.

My only other advice would be this: Define your trade decision process, i.e. what many call their "set ups". Write down under what circumstances you will enter a position, how you will determine your stop loss, and how you will manage the trade (for example, some folks use pre-determined profit targets at which to exit, while others use a trailing stop method).

Once you define your trade decision process, then you must apply it and stick to it with absolute rigor. I just made a post myself about how when I am trading, I quit after two consecutive losses. If I do not quit, I know I will tend toward forcing trades, over trading, over leveraging, etc.

As Socrates advised, "Know thyself." I now know myself, and I set a trading regimen in place that protects my capital from the kind of "self" I know myself to be. You need to do the same, and no mentor or educator can do that for you.

I hope to see you in the "Reading Charts ..." thread. If not, I wish you all the best and much success.

Best Wishes,

Thales

I guess you might say, Forrest, that the more I learn about and from the good folks I have met through this thread, the more I learn about myself, both as a trader and as a human being.

Best Wishes,

Thales

[brownsfan019]

Originally Posted by thalestrader »

Absolutely! Excellent post, Daedalus.

I wish I could trade with the cool emotionless calm that others apparently are able to muster (most notably here at TL the example of DbPhoenix, who strikes me as the Dr. Spock of the trading world - and I mean that in a most complimentary way).

You are making the assumption that someone who has never shown a blotter actually trades. Turns out it's very easy to keep a cool head when you have nothing to lose.

[BlowFish]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

You are making the assumption that someone who has never shown a blotter actually trades. Turns out it's very easy to keep a cool head when you have nothing to lose.

Probably not the place to take this but a blotter doesn't really prove much (though you have to wonder why any one would bother to fake it). Really the only thing you can use to judge what someone is saying is....what they are saying. There is a catch 22 there particularly for those with less experience of course.

To bring stuff back on track this is one of the good things about this thread. "Trading Charts in Real Time". You don't need blotters or what not you can see potential entries posted before hand (often way before they trigger). Usually a chart with the action that triggers them, and one of the real crux's of the matter (as I know you would agree Brown) which is management of the trade to exit. About the best you could hope to manage in a forum environment. Who cares whether it is real money sim or all fantasy....the trades speak for themselves.

[forrestang]

Originally Posted by BlowFish »

To bring stuff back on track this is one of the good things about this thread. "Trading Charts in Real Time". You don't need blotters or what not you can see potential entries posted before hand (often way before they trigger). Usually a chart with the action that triggers them, and one of the real crux's of the matter (as I know you would agree Brown) which is management of the trade to exit. About the best you could hope to manage in a forum environment. Who cares whether it is real money sim or all fantasy....the trades speak for themselves.

Just about this thread, I appreciate that it is the ONLY thread that deals with the 'hard right edge.' Which is what trading is about. Not saying dead charts are useless or anything, as explaining things on them are sometimes necessary, but showing someone what the right edge looks like prior to a trade is an awesome perspective.

And that most trades posted are kind of swing/position trades lends itself well to be able to show someone your 'right edge read.'

So I am appreciative of all those that have put themselves out there showing what they see on their 'right edge read,' irrespective of whether that trade was a winner or loser.