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Discourse with Fellow Traders, Not Co-workers.

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I've spent a lot of time and plain hard work developing an options trading strategy that actually performs. It is very gratifying to finally reach a point where I am confident I can make money trading options. Maybe someday I'll be able to quit the 9-5 routine and live off of passive income.


Until recently, I have been sharing my trading travails with co-workers - people who know nothing about trading, let alone options. I have received some positive feedback, mainly in the form of philosophical analogies or simple supportive phrases such "very cool".


Overall, however, there is a lack of true appreciation by non-traders of the struggles involved in starting a trading system. Often there is cynicism regarding the markets in general. Don't get me wrong - these are great people I work with. They just don't trade. Come to think of it, it is a little unfair of me to expect anything more.


This is my first post in TL. It is simply an attempt to open lines of communication with fellow traders, rather than non-trading co-workers.


Perhaps others have had a similar experience with non-trading co-workers and friends when trying to get a trading system off the ground?

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When you talk to non traders they can't relate to the possibility of making a living without the guaranteed paycheck at the end of the week. And if you come across as 'I'm going to give up this 9-5 job and gain my freedom and wealth' ... well, they have no way to accept that without having to admit their own condition is not what they want.


Having said that, option strategies can be the most complicated subject requiring some sort of math degree just to figure out.


You're better off keeping your trading to yourself and other traders. Don't rub in your success onto those who would not have it.


Good luck with your trading and welcome to this forum.

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Yea... better off not trying to talk shop with folks not in the business... eyes will glaze over... you've lost them inside of 30 seconds (they're just being polite after that... or worse, they're quoting trading axioms that they've heard in the past... like they understand). Just smile and say: "it's going great"...


Welcome to the forum.

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Thank you both for your advice.


I won't initiate trading discussions with non-traders. If asked, I'll simply say something generic like "It's going fine".


Overall, I'm appreciating more and more that trading is a uniquely individual experience.

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I go through the same things, I am the only one I know that is even remotely interested in the markets. It is tough trying to quantify theories only in your head without outside reflection and opinion. But the "glaze" is all too real unfortunately, I think because most think that what we do is a crap shoot at best and they do not really understand the capital markets as a whole let alone do they understand that with hard work, understanding and a lot of luck you can actually make it. Its the entrepreneurial spirit vs. the working Joe, Joe likes it safe and you talking about your gambling addiction is against his/her religion.

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People can be categorized into one of two groups, those who understand or are in the learning phase of trading and those who are not.


It amazes me how many people cannot understand the concept of getting out of a loosing position at a small loss to try and get your cash into a gaining position, the standard response is "Can't you just hold on until it gets back to break even?".


The next stumbling block is convincing people that you can be loosing money when the market is rising and making a profit when the market is falling, people just tend to nod and smile when I try and explain that one.


Although I tend to be fairly reserved and elusive in telling people if I'm making or loosing money at any given point, they seem to have trouble grasping the concept of draw downs being statistically inevitable, and that I'm not going too well if I'm not constantly turning a profit. People also don't understand that trading results of less than say, a two year period are not overly representative of the systems performance or traders ability as even the best systems can have bad years.


I think that to understand trading, you actually have to open an account and actually do some trading, and when discussing trading win non-traders you just need to keep that in mind and give appropriate responses to questions.


In the near future I'll be making my first attempt at creating a trading system. Currently using some commercially available systems through a system assist broker and also using a system running in Multicharts with IB.


Welcome to the forum marktheshark.




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I am new in this forum and have about 8 months experience of trading options.

So, I am willing to learn and go on learning... it's a great but risky field and I like it.


But, from my experience with people and friends, most of them are afraid to deal with two things:

1. money.

2. free time


I, in the other hand like dealing with both, so here I am...

hoping to learn and trade more.

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    • ANALAYST 75..LIKE A PLAGUE.. hird plague pandemic From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia     Jump to navigation Jump to search For another third round of a pandemic, see Third cholera pandemic.   Plague patient being injected by a doctor 1897 in Karachi.   Picture of Manchurian plague victims in 1910–1911 Third Pandemic is the designation of a major bubonic plague pandemic that began in Yunnan province in China in 1855, fifth year of the Xianfeng Emperor of the Qing dynasty.[1] This episode of bubonic plague spread to all inhabited continents, and ultimately more than 12 million people died in India and China, with about 10 million killed in India alone.[2] According to the World Health Organization, the pandemic was considered active until 1960, when worldwide casualties dropped to 200 per year.[3] The name refers to this pandemic being the third major bubonic plague outbreak to affect European society. The first was the Plague of Justinian, which ravaged the Byzantine Empire and surrounding areas in 541 and 542. The second was the Black Death, which killed at least one third of Europe's population in a series of expanding waves of infection from 1346 to 1353.[4] Casualty patterns indicate that waves of this late-19th-century/early-20th-century pandemic may have been from two different sources. The first was primarily bubonic and was carried around the world through ocean-going trade, through transporting infected persons, rats, and cargoes harboring fleas. The second, more virulent strain, was primarily pneumonic in character with a strong person-to-person contagion. This strain was largely confined to Asia, in particular Manchuria and Mongolia. Contents 1 Pattern of the pandemic 1.1 Origin in Yunnan Province of China 1.2 Political impact in colonial India 1.3 Global distribution 1.4 The 1894 Hong Kong plague 2 Disease research 3 See also 4 References 5 Further reading 6 External links Pattern of the pandemic The bubonic plague was endemic in populations of infected ground rodents in central Asia, and was a known cause of death among migrant and established human populations in that region for centuries. An influx of new people due to political conflicts and global trade led to the distribution of this disease throughout the world. Origin in Yunnan Province of China A natural reservoir or nidus for plague is located in western Yunnan and is an ongoing health risk today. The third pandemic of plague originated in this area after a rapid influx of Han Chinese to exploit the demand for minerals, primarily copper, in the latter half of the nineteenth century.[5] By 1850, the population had exploded to over 7 million people. Increasing transportation throughout the region brought people in contact with plague-infected fleas, the primary vector between the yellow-breasted rat (Rattus flavipectus) and humans. People brought the fleas and rats back into growing urban areas, where small outbreaks sometimes reached epidemic proportions. The plague spread further after disputes between Han Chinese and Hui Muslim miners in the early 1850s erupted into a violent uprising known as the Panthay rebellion, which led to further displacements (troop movements and refugee migrations). The outbreak of the plague helped recruit people into the Taiping Rebellion. In the latter half of the nineteenth century the plague began to appear in Guangxi and Guangdong provinces, Hainan Island, and later the Pearl River delta including Canton and Hong Kong. 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Almost all cases were bubonic, with only a very small percentage changing to pneumonic plague. (Orent, p. 185) The disease was initially seen in port cities, beginning with Bombay (now Mumbai), but later emerged in Pune, Kolkata, and Karachi (now in Pakistan). By 1899, the outbreak spread to smaller communities and rural areas in many regions of India. Overall, the impact of plague epidemics was greatest in western and northern India—in the provinces then designated as Bombay, Punjab, and the United Provinces—while eastern and southern India were not as badly affected. The colonial government's measures to control the disease included quarantine, isolation camps, travel restrictions and the exclusion of India's traditional medical practices. Restrictions on the populations of the coastal cities were established by Special Plague Committees with overreaching powers, and enforced by the British military. 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Canton, China 1894. Hong Kong 1894. Taiwan, Japan 1896 (until 1923 Great Kantō earthquake). Jeddah, 1896. Mecca, 1898. Medina, 1898.[12] Bombay Presidency, India 1896–1898. Calcutta, India 1898. Madagascar, 1898. Kobe, 1898. San Francisco, 1899. Egypt, 1899. Manchuria, China 1899. Paraguay, 1899. South Africa, 1899–1902. Republic of Hawaii, 1899.[13][14] Glasgow, United Kingdom, 1900.[15] San Francisco, United States, 1900.[16][17][18] Manila, 1900. Australia, 1900–1905. Russian Empire/Soviet Union, 1900–1927. Fukien Province, China 1901. Siam, 1904. Burma, 1905. Tunisia, 1907. Trinidad, Venezuela, Peru and Ecuador, 1908. Bolivia and Brazil, 1908. Cuba and Puerto Rico, 1912. Each of these areas, as well as Great Britain, France, and other areas of Europe, continued to experience plague outbreaks and casualties until the 1960s. The last significant outbreak of plague associated with the pandemic occurred in Peru and Argentina in 1945. The 1894 Hong Kong plague The 1894 Hong Kong plague was a major outbreak of the third pandemic in the world from the late 19th century to the early 20th century. In May 1894, the first case occurred in Hong Kong. The patient was a national hospital clerk and was discovered by Dr. Yu Xun, the dean of the National Hospital, who had just returned from Guangzhou. When the Chinese-style buildings were built, the Taiping Mountain area in Sheung Wan, the most densely populated area in Hong Kong, became the hardest hit area of the epidemic. Controlling the epidemic naturally became the top priority of the Governor of Hong Kong. From May to October 1894, the plague in Hong Kong killed more than 2,000 people and one-third of the population fled Hong Kong. In the 30 years after 1926, the plague occurred in Hong Kong almost every year, killing more than 20,000 people. Through the maritime traffic in Hong Kong, the plague epidemic originating in Yunnan, China, spread to all parts of the country after 1894 and eventually spread to all continents where humans live.[citation needed] There were several reasons for the rapid outbreak and rapid spread of the plague. First, in the early days of Kailuan, Sheung Wan was a Chinese settlement. It is located in the mountains. The design of the houses there included no drainage channels, toilets or running water. Intensive buildings and a lack of floor tiles were also weaknesses in housing design at the time. Secondly, during the Ching Ming Festival in 1894, many Chinese living in Hong Kong returned to the countryside to sweep the graves, which coincided with the outbreak of the epidemic in Guangzhou and the introduction of bacteria into Hong Kong. In addition, in the first four months of 1894, rainfall decreased and soil dried up, accelerating the spread of the plague.[19] The measures[which?] mainly included three aspects: setting up plague hospitals and deploying medical staff to treat and isolate plague patients; conducting house-to-house search operations, discovering and transferring plague patients, and cleaning and disinfecting infected houses and areas; and setting up designated cemeteries and assigning a person responsible for transporting and burying the plague dead.[20] Disease research Researchers working in Asia during the "Third Pandemic" identified plague vectors and the plague bacillus. In 1894, in Hong Kong, Swiss-born French bacteriologist Alexandre Yersin isolated the responsible bacterium (Yersinia pestis, named for Yersin) and determined the common mode of transmission. His discoveries led in time to modern treatment methods, including insecticides, the use of antibiotics and eventually plague vaccines. In 1898, French researcher Paul-Louis Simond demonstrated the role of fleas as a vector. The disease is caused by a bacterium usually transmitted by the bite of fleas from an infected host, often a black rat. The bacteria are transferred from the blood of infected rats to the rat flea (Xenopsylla cheopsis). The bacillus multiplies in the stomach of the flea, blocking it. When the flea next bites a mammal, the consumed blood is regurgitated along with the bacillus into the bloodstream of the bitten animal. Any serious outbreak of plague in humans is preceded by an outbreak in the rodent population. During the outbreak, infected fleas that have lost their normal rodent hosts seek other sources of blood. The British colonial government in India pressed medical researcher Waldemar Haffkine to develop a plague vaccine. After three months of persistent work with a limited staff, a form for human trials was ready. On January 10, 1897 Haffkine tested it on himself. After the initial test was reported to the authorities, volunteers at the Byculla jail were used in a control test, all inoculated prisoners survived the epidemics, while seven inmates of the control group died. By the turn of the century, the number of inoculees in India alone reached four million. Haffkine was appointed the Director of the Plague Laboratory (now called Haffkine Institute) in Bombay.[21] See also Timeline of plague Great Plague of London (1665) References   Cohn, Samuel K. (2003). The Black Death Transformed: Disease and Culture in Early Renaissance Europe. A Hodder Arnold. p. 336. ISBN 0-340-70646-5.   Infectious Diseases: Plague Through History, sciencemag.org   ListVerse.com (2009). The Ultimate Book of Top Ten Lists: A Mind-Boggling Collection of Fun, Fascinating and Bizarre Facts on Movies, Music, Sports, Crime, Ce. Ulysses Press. ISBN 978-1569758007.   Nicholas Wade (October 31, 2010). "Europe's Plagues Came From China, Study Finds". The New York Times. Retrieved 2010-11-01. The great waves of plague that twice devastated Europe and changed the course of history had their origins in China, a team of medical geneticists reported Sunday, as did a third plague outbreak that struck less harmfully in the 19th century.   Benedict, Carol (1996). Bubonic plague in eighteenth-century China. Stanford, CA: Stanford Univ. Press. pp. 47, 70. ISBN 978-0804726610.   Pryor, E.G. (1975). "The Great Plague of Hong Kong". Journal of the Hong Kong Branch of the Royal Asiatic Society: 69.   Infectious Diseases: Plague Through History, sciencemag.org   Zaman, Rashed Uz (2013). "Bengal terrorism and the ambiguity of the Bengali Muslims". In Jussi H. Nhimaki; Bernhard Blemenau; Jussi Hanhim Ki (eds.). An International History of Terrorism: Western and Non-western Experiences. Routledge. p. 152. ISBN 978-0415635400.   Low, Bruce (1899). "Report upon the Progress and Diffusion of Bubonic Plague from 1879 to 1898". Reports of the Medical Officer of the Privy Council and bill gates is a disgusting filthy murdering jew cuntocal Government Board, Annual Report, 1898–99. London: Darling & Son, Ltd. on behalf of His Majesty's Stationery Office: 199–258. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   Low, Bruce (1902). "Summary of the Progress and Diffusion of the Plague in 1900". Reports of the Medical Officer of the Privy Council and Local Government Board, Annual Report, 1900–01. London: Darling & Son, Ltd. on behalf of His Majesty's Stationery Office: 264–282. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   Eager, J.M. (1908). "The Present Pandemic of Plague". Public Health Bulletin. Washington: Government Printing Office: 436–443. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   Welford, Mark (9 April 2018). "6". Geographies of Plague Pandemics: The Spatial-Temporal Behavior of Plague to the Modern Day. Routledge. ISBN 978-1315307411.   "Honolulu's Battle with Bubonic Plague". Hawaiian Almanac and Annual. Honolulu: Thos. G. Thrum, Hawaiian Gazette Co.: 97–105 1900. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   https://scholarsbank.uoregon.edu/xmlui/bitstream/handle/1794/7694/Bailey_Kevin_thesis2007.pdf?sequence=1   MacDonald, Kenneth (2 January 2019). "Rats 'wrongly blamed' for 1900 Glasgow plague outbreak". BBC News. Retrieved 2 January 2019.   "On The Plague In San Francisco". Journal of the American Medical Association. Chicago: The American Medical Association. 36 (15): 1042. April 13, 1901. doi:10.1001/jama.1901.52470150038003. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   "The Plague, "American Medicine," And The "Philadelphia Medical Journal."". Occidental Medical Times. San Francisco. 15: 171–179. 1901. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   "Bubonic Plague At San Francisco, Cal". Annual Report of the Supervising Surgeon General of the Marine Hospital Service of the United States for the Fiscal Year 1901. Washington: Government Printing Office: 491–. 1901. Retrieved 17 October 2010.   "1894上環大鼠疫". elearning.qcobass.edu.hk. Retrieved 2019-03-06.   楊, 祥銀 (2010). "公共衛生與1894年香港鼠疫研究". 華中師範大學學報. 49: 68–75.   Hanhart, Joel (2016). Waldemar Mordekhaï Haffkine (1860–1930). Biographie intellectuelle. Paris: Honore Champion. Further reading Media related to Plague, third pandemic at Wikimedia Commons Advisory Committee for Plague Investigations in India (1911), Report On Plague Investigations In India, 1906–1910 Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad, The Promised Messiah. Noah’s Ark: An Invitation to Faith. Gandhi, M. K. The Plague Panic in South Africa Gregg, Charles. Plague: An Ancients Disease in the Twentieth Century. Albuquerque, University of New Mexico Press, 1985. Kelly, John. The Great Mortality: An Intimate History of the Black Death, the Most Devastating Plague of All Time. New York: HarperCollins Publishers, 2005. ISBN 0-06-000692-7. McNeill, William H. Plagues and People. New York: Anchor Books, 1976. ISBN 0-385-12122-9. Orent, Wendy. Plague: The Mysterious Past and Terrifying Future of the World's Most Dangerous Disease. New York: Free Press, 2004. ISBN 0-7432-3685-8. External links
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