The Race

[TMBTC 10]

...one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period...

 

Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make many times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

Edited May 5, 2010 by TMBTC

[thalestrader 14]

... Days like today I usually make hay but something was not right in my head and I'm wondering if it was "the race". .

 

From the pnl thread two months ago ...

 

wow! i need to be spanked! I broke the ultimate trading axiom - never let a winner turn into a loser. was up $370 and in a futile attempt to get $130 more bucks wound up losing it all +another 470

 

Not for nothing enoch, but The Race is not what is wrong with your trading. As a matter of fact, as crazy as I'm sure this sounds to the vast majority of TL lurkers reading this thread, I believe that you may find that The Race can help you identify what's wrong, if you use it as the tool it is.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

I wouldn't try to race to a million with, say, 10k in an account. I do not have that kind of "play money" and one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period.

 

May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[MightyMouse 12]

Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make 100 times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

 

I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

[sicktrader 10]

I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

 

MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

[MightyMouse 12]

MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

 

We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

[sicktrader 10]

We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

 

 

Thanks. Will do. Have fun watching.

[sicktrader 10]

Hey guys, if I am fortunate to turn a dime into a mil, please be quick to to verify my account. Once verified, I want to draw it back down to zero so I don't have to pay taxes. Thanks in advance.

[bathrobe 10]

-269 I began day biased long and then missed a short later in the day due to distractions

[MightyMouse 12]

May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Thales,

 

I have been involved in similar discussions and it ends up with a bunch of name calling and I don't have the energy for it, nor do I want to dirty your tread with it. I have already discussed the need to pay taxes on returns and debated my poor use of "one" when I rightfully should have used "I". However, I trust that you know that the answer to that question depends on a lot of variables that are different for every single trader.

 

I use the word reckless to categorize the behavior that might cause you to blow up your account in a very short period of time.

 

MM

[MidKnight 12]

Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

[amswak 10]

Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

Interesting point. What if the rules next time are to get to 100,000% return, or maybe square an account (i.e. $1,000^2 = $1,000,000)?

 

Personally, I think this will be a good learning experience, both for those participating and those lurking....lol, and it may just become an "I told you so" for those who are not fans...

 

p.s. got my sandbox account opened today and hope to have it funded tomorrow. Will post initial balance asap

[luker 10]

Hi guys,

 

I trade the australian markets, and today, i have seen the first sign of strength in a while. Some serious demand came into some of the stop 60 of our markets today, RIO, BHP, NCM, FMG, all showed very strong signs of demand, and often are indicators of market sentiment for the following few days.

 

In my opinion, our markets dont follow the US that strongly, but lately tend to price "ahead" of time, so i would not be suprised if we see some strength in the US tonight. Looks to me like this may be the spring in another possibly very little profitable short term move.

 

I think i may be the only one in this competition trading stocks?

[ADarkerRattlingMe 10]

Off to an appalling start.

 

40% gone on my first day.

 

[Trader Dante 10]

Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

[thalestrader 14]

Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

 

I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

My statement for yesterday will be late today as I am going golfing, though like I mentioned already I had lost 18 points on the Aussie. This morning was a bit worse with a 28 point loss on the Euro. My system said long, so I went long into a sinking market.

[BlowFish 10]

I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

I would second that. Another strong contender is my hunch!

[enochbenjamin 10]

very disappointing day yesterday - shorted oil near the top and got out with a 1 tick gain before the MASSIVE selloff! then started revenge trading - you see the results....

[yeaheah 10]

Also a losing day.

 

[fxThunder 10]

More steps forward. Account growing at a steady pace...

 

Cheers,

fxT

[yeaheah 10]

I'm considering to open an account with a broker who can offer a 1:500 leverage or more.

 

I'm a pure scalper and when try to hold positions i mostly get stopped out.

 

Haven't done significant progress since the start.

[fxThunder 10]

Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

I have opened an account with MB Trading and will probably fund it with 3k during next week. I may switch to trading that account for the balance of "The Race". My initial small account certainly does put me in a bit of "catch up" mode to get to the starting capital of the rest of the racers....

 

Cheers,

fxT

Edited May 5, 2010 by fxThunder
typo

[sicktrader 10]

I managed to get back some of my huge euro loss, only down 15 for the day. Missed a winner while I was golfing, seems to always work that way.

[thalestrader 14]

... If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes...

 

If it were a % gain on initial stake contest, I'd stand down and have my daughter trade another microlot account.

 

I really didn't give this much thought, as The Race was my response to sicktrader's "1k to 1,000,000" phrasing in the "let's Trade" thread. I wanted to keep it close to 1K. In future iterations of The Race, I'd be open to allowing different equity levels depending upon the trader's chosen market and style, e.g. 3K for futures day traders, 10K for futures swing traders, 25k for stock day traders, and 50K for stock swing traders. Off of the top of my head, each of those amounts would control a similar notional value of securities/ instruments (give or take, folks, give or take).

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales