The Race

[amswak 10]

I'm in. I'll get the image of the account statement tonight. Started an account with $800.

 

p.s. had a terrifying morning. Never used TurboTrader and thought it was straightforward, ended up entering a ton of market orders not knowing why they weren't filling...then found out they had all been limit orders and they all started filling at the wrong times!! Luckily was able to figure it out and still close out $100 up....LOL, my wife just called me an idiot for not at least watching the demo videos first...

[brownsfan019 17]

I'm in. I'll get the image of the account statement tonight. Started an account with $800.

 

p.s. had a terrifying morning. Never used TurboTrader and thought it was straightforward, ended up entering a ton of market orders not knowing why they weren't filling...then found out they had all been limit orders and they all started filling at the wrong times!! Luckily was able to figure it out and still close out $100 up....LOL, my wife just called me an idiot for not at least watching the demo videos first...

 

You're trading on something you never even tested?

 

Good luck.

[yeaheah 10]

No trades yetserday and today.

 

Next week i'll have much more time for trading.

[amswak 10]

Browns,

 

Short answer, Yes.

 

I am here to have fun with a challenge and maybe learn a little along the way. I posted my experience from this morning purely for other trader's amusement. You (and I) already know the amount of risk that will be required if one were to actually accomplish this feat. I figured if I am going to take that much risk, how much more was it to try a new trading platform for the first time? There is a calculated reason I started an account with only $800 and not any more.

 

Plus, if it makes any more sense, I am only using TurboTrader to execute my discretionary trades. I still use TradeStation for timing entering and exiting of positions.

 

Good Luck,

 

Hunter

[fxThunder 10]

Started the morning with good drawdowns due to increased agressiveness and position sizing. went back to basics in the later sessions and managed to recover a fair amount of the loss.

 

Nothing ventured nothing gained......

 

Cheers,

fxT

[thalestrader 14]

Started the morning with good draw downs due to increased aggressiveness and position sizing. went back to basics in the later sessions and managed to recover a fair amount of the loss.

 

Nothing ventured nothing gained......

 

Cheers,

fxT

 

Nice trading overall, fxT. You are correct in that you will need to increase your size as your equity increases if you wish to reach the finish line. However, you do not need to increase your trade frequency or be more "aggressive," (by aggressive I take you mean that in an effort to increase your gains quickly, you took entries that previously you would not have taken).

 

You need to do exactly what you were doing that worked. Just do it bigger and bigger oer time.

 

One lesson that I think you will see proven as The Race progresses is that the trader who trades least will make the most.

 

I look forward to crossing the finish line and finding you already there to greet me.

 

Good luck!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Edited May 7, 2010 by thalestrader

[sicktrader 10]

Thales,

 

Are you ever going to post a losing day? Nice trading.

[thalestrader 14]

Thales,

 

Are you ever going to post a losing day? Nice trading.

 

This reminds of the following exchange from Linda Raschke's interview in Schwager's New Market Wizards:

 

Jack Schwager:What percentage of your trades are profitable?

Linda Raschke:About 70 percent.

 

Jack Schwager: Is your average winner also larger than your average loser?

Linda Raschke: On my short-term trades, on a per contract basis, my average win is about $450 (the figure would be higher if I included longer-term trades), and my average loss is just over $200

.

Jack Schwager: With both the percentage and average magnitude of your winning trades outdistancing the losers by a better than two-to-one ratio, it sounds like you would be profitable in every month.

Linda Raschke: Every month! My philosophy is to try to be profitable every day! Of course, I don't quite achieve that consistency, but that's my goal. I'm probably profitable nearly every week. Remember, I do this for a living, and I use my own money. I really value the fact that I've learned to trade as a craft. Like any craft, such as piano playing, perfection may be elusive - I'll never play a piece perfectly, and I'll never buy the low and sell the high-but consistency is achievable if you practice day in and day out. - all emphasis added by Thales

 

Equity, like price, moves in waves, so losses are to be expected. But unlike price, losing days are random. Here is what I mean: If you are trading according to your plan, and if your plan dictates that the average win is a multiple of average loss, etc. and so on, then a losing day is simply the result of the exchange banging the gavel to close out the "day" before the market presents me with the opportunity for a win to recover more than I had lost on that day up to that time.

 

All of which is to say that I will post the days as they come. My goal in this contest, as in all of my trading, is to be profitable everyday. Like Raschke, I'm not quite there. But it is my goal. And it does not bother me in the least to know that I will never succeed in being profitable everyday. But by making it my goal, and by doing the things necessary to achieve that goal, I am able to get close. Losing days happen, as do occasional multi-day draw downs. As a matter of fact, we are in a time of year where my trading hours are cut dramatically, and as a result, the chances of such a multi-day losing streak goes way up, since it becomes more possible that I find myself trading when the losing trades occur, but I am away from the market when the winning opportunity's present themselves. I will post a losing day soon enough.

 

At any rate, one could do worse than start the day off reading that paragraph from Linda Raschke:

 

My philosophy is to try to be profitable every day! Of course, I don't quite achieve that consistency, but that's my goal. I'm probably profitable nearly every week. Remember, I do this for a living, and I use my own money. I really value the fact that I've learned to trade as a craft. Like any craft, such as piano playing, perfection may be elusive - I'll never play a piece perfectly, and I'll never buy the low and sell the high-but consistency is achievable if you practice day in and day out. - Linda Raschke

 

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Thanks. I have never read a book about trading, but when I do, that will be the one. Listened to many favorable comments about that book.

[bathrobe 10]

sorry for the late post yesterday I suffered the largest loss of my trading career in another account. The results here are no better. I am going to Europe through June 13 for a long 31st birthday celebration with friends so I will start up again when I get back.

[bathrobe 10]

Thanks for posting that Thales, I love the original Market Wizards book and believe it has great advice in it like what you posted above. Last year I incorporated some of the advice given by Paul Tudor Jones into my trading by scaling up size when I was trading very well for a stretch, which led to my most profitable year (5x my next highest) I have not read the one with LBR in it but it is next on my list.

 

Chris

[amswak 10]

I am officially in! I didnt do too hot today, lol :doh:, but I definitely made out better than it could have been. I'll post my new balance in the morning. $800 starting balance.

 

[thalestrader 14]

Hi Folks,

 

One trade on the 6E for +33 ticks ...

 

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[daedalus 10]

Great trade Thales. I'd love to see more of your setups even with the MA's deleted to get a better idea of the pullback trades your taking (that is basically what your doing, in the direction of a predefined trend?)

 

Cheers!

[amswak 10]

Here are my results from yesterday's roller coaster ride. Went up a good bit, went stupid, then went down a bit more. Day's ending balance, $722.

[yeaheah 10]

Weekly statement for Oanda:

 

 

 

And here for the Exness account:

 

 

Have a great weekend.

[sicktrader 10]

Nice work to all. Seems to be a nice group of profitable traders. At this point I feel that I am a week behind, as I was expecting to reach my 2,600 goal this past week. The Greece situation has limited my set-ups, and I don't expect that to change. It is my choice to stick with my current system, and I will, so there won't be any excuses. In the long run everything should even out, so I am not very worried at this point. Anything can happen in 18 weeks. Good luck to all.

[thalestrader 14]

...While I'd love to make a million out of my sand box, I am starting off with a much humbler goal of doubling the $1500 to $3000 without falling below $750 in the process. We'll see how that goes. After all, if I am to make a million, I have first to make $100, right? Making a $100 profit on a $1500 stake hardly seems ridiculous, now does it? If $100, is reasonable, then, given some time and opportunity, is $500 ridiculous? Hardly. And if $500, why not a double? A $1500 stake run to a $1500 profit? No mean feat, but certainly not insurmountable, wouldn't you say?

 

I am extremely grateful to have had the opportunity to reach that initial doubling from $1500 to $3000 that I mentioned above. Within that milestone, were smaller mile markers: Allow me to round my figures to make this easier to type: My first goal was to reach a $600 profit on the initial $1500, which would bring the total equity to $2100. I was thankful to reach that goal during the Week One. My second mile marker was to reach a profit of $800 on the $2100, and that was reached this week. My next goal is to reach a profit of $1100 on the $2900, and that task is currently underway. If I were to assume no future intervening losses (an unreasonable assumption, to be sure) I am $163 into that goal, with $937 remaining to complete the my third mini-stage. This would bring the equity to $4000 upon completion of stage 3.

 

An additional note on my mini-stages or mile markers: While the contest is conceived to be a 20 week run, my plan, and my mile markers are merely tied to equity levels, and not time. It is mere coincidence that I accomplished marker 1 during week one and marker 2 during week two. A marker could be reached in a day, or a month, or, heaven forbid, not at all!

 

While I would like to hit the million in twenty weeks, it is more important to hit the million period, even if it takes 20 months instead. So the markers are not time oriented goals; they are merely profit objectives which allow me to break this most ridiculous goal into much more reasonable, though still quite challenging goals.

 

My plan calls for adding contracts at $1500 increments. I now have $3000, so my plan calls for me to increase my trade size to two contracts from one.

 

However, given the recent volatility, during the upcoming week, when I am trading, I will be swinging either one or two lots based upon the particular trade opportunity's initial stop requirement. Initial stops are based on price, as are stop adjustments (as evidenced by the variances among my last four losing trades, -10, -3, +1, and -14 ticks, respectively {I count a +1 stop out as a loss since I must split that tick with the broker. A trade does not hit my win column unless I earn at least one tick for myself}).

 

This represents an adjustment to my initial plan: trade size will still be a function of units of equity, and my intention is to trade one lot/$1500. However, should the initial stop required exceed 14 ticks, trade size for that particular opportunity will be reduced by 1/2.

 

Additionally, I am going to have my broker put a $750 daily loss limit on the account for Monday. If I suffer a loss of equity of $750 and the account falls to $2250 or lower, which would represent a loss of 50% of the profits to date, my position(s) will be auto-liquidated and all orders auto-canceled, and I will stop trading this account for that day. I will reduce size back to one contract, where it will stay until the account trades to a new equity high.

 

Otherwise, my plan is intact - I am trading the same system with which I started, I am trading the same contracts with which I started, I am using the same money management with which I started. The only changes that have been made have been to help control and reduce the additional potential risk posed by the recent increase in volatility.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Thales,

 

If your first trade is a winner, do you quit for the day? I haven't went back and reread the threads, but based on the verbage from the book yesterday, and my fuzzy memory, I think you may. Please elaborate.

[thalestrader 14]

If your first trade is a winner, do you quit for the day? I haven't went back and reread the threads, but based on the verbage from the book yesterday, and my fuzzy memory, I think you may. Please elaborate.

 

Interesting observation, sicko, and the answer is yes and no. What I mean by that is this: In addition to this little sandbox account, I trade my own futures account, and I also day trade an equities account. So, as far as this little account goes, my thinking has been if I can make $200/contract traded on a day, I'll shut it down.

 

I do not cut my trades at $200. As you can see by my last trade, I want it to go to target or run for as far as it is willing to go. But If I hit a $200+ trade, or my cumulative profit, net of commissions and fees, is $200/lot traded, I call it quits. Going forward, if I am trading 2 lots, then if I hit a profit of $400/ or more, I'll likely shut her down. However, I will also be trying to let these trades run for $400-$600-$800 per lot, depending upon market conditions.

 

So, to answer your question, if my first trade is a sufficiently large enough winner, I am inclined to stop trading this particular account, as my attention does get rather stretched between the three accounts. Also, I own a non-trading business that mostly runs itself, but there are several times each year when, like it or not, I have need to get dragged into its daily operations for a period of time, typically lasting 4-8 weeks. This is currently one of those times, and so my trading hours are basically the AM session of the US, and the AM session of Tokyo. This is why I say I will post a losing day in this account soon. Last Monday, for example, I had four losses in a row, and I was down $312.50 +commissions and fees. I only had about thirty minutes left before I had to go to a meeting related to my non-trading business, and I was sure I was gong to be posting a losing day. Then, what do you know - two back to back winners, one of which completely erased the prior four losses, the second of which put me up by almost $350 for the day after commissions and fees. Had those signals hit forty minutes later than they did, I'd have been gone and my book for the day would have been a loss. So, it is only a matter of time before I string together a set of losses one morning and I have to leave before I have the opportunity to take the trades that will erase them and put me positive.

 

Tokyo has been a bit flat for me the last five months or so, though that 6E trade from yesterday was actually done Thursday night soon after the Tokyo open. I do not like to trade Fridays this time of year until September, and unlike you, I am not a "news trader," so I was happy to rest on my Tokyo laurels and not trade the US session yesterday, especially as it was NFP friday.

 

Sorry for the long answer, but you did ask that I "please elaborate."

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[sicktrader 10]

Also, I own a non-trading business that mostly runs itself, but there are several times each year when, like it or not, I have need to get dragged into its daily operations for a period of time, typically lasting 4-8 weeks. This is currently one of those times, and so my trading hours are basically the AM session of the US, and the AM session of Tokyo. Thales

 

Thales,

 

I would think that most here have other obligations. If you started in trading and made money, then you probably have invested in other areas. Or, like myself, you had other interests first and then embarked on the trading aspect.

 

While I have a few systems, trading the new is by far my favorite. I am at the computer ten minutes or so before a possible trade, and either a have a set-up or I do not. If not, I go back to bed, if so then then I set my brackets, enter the trade, then go back to bed. Really not much to it. My other systems I need to constantly watch, which I can't, and I will miss some.

 

In regard to your money management rule of locking in $200 winners, I can go either way on that, particularly since you have your max loss set. Otherwise, the numbers won't work out as I am sure you know. I have more to say here but, as I have said before, after 9:00 I really shouldn't post.

 

Good Luck.

[WorldTrader 10]

Looks like I am a little late joining the party. I will start, I have an account less than 3K and from reading the posts, I will have to do just Forex. I like to trade the Futures as well, but that would require my taking some cash out. I look forward to Joining the Fun.

[thalestrader 14]

While I have a few systems, trading the new is by far my favorite...

 

I wasn't criticizing you for being a news trader, sicko. I was only saying that I am not a news trader, and if given a choice, I would prefer to be out of the market when news hits unless I am already sitting on a nice open profit and my position is in the direction of the overall trend. Many folks do fine trading the news.

 

In regard to your money management rule of locking in $200 winners, I can go either way on that, particularly since you have your max loss set...

 

When I hear someone say they are "locking in $200 winners," I think either he is limiting out with a $200 profit, or moving his stop to capture a $200 profit if price retraces against is posiiton. That is not what I was saying at all. My profit objectives are based on current volatility and proximity of S/R, and stops are trailed behind what I call "natural stops," i.e. price levels where price had been halted by buying/selling. If I am stopped out or limited out with a $200 profit, that is pure coincidence. All I meant to imply was that if I find that my equity has increased by $200 or more per lot of size traded, I am inclined to call it a day and focus on other activities. I do not have an arbitrary $200/lot/day profit objective.

 

I am also experimenting with an auto trailing stop feature. In these cases, stops are not necessarily coincident with ":natural stops."

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

Looks like I am a little late joining the party. I will start, I have an account less than 3K and from reading the posts, I will have to do just Forex. I like to trade the Futures as well, but that would require my taking some cash out. I look forward to Joining the Fun.

 

Welcome to The Race, worldtrader. In order to be officially entered, you need to post a screen shot of your account's latest daily statement. Your starting equity will be the equity shown in your inital post. Only trades that occur after an initial statement will be counted for the purpose of The Race.

 

Good luck, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

[thalestrader 14]

The Race - Week 2

 

An uneven week , with some of the Racers continuing to make progress away from the starting line and others finding themselves back behind the starting line. A testament to the difficulties this week is that while we had a combined positive mileage last week of +1609.4 miles, this week finds the combined mileage by all racers to be -706.99 miles, a swing of -2316.39 miles!

 

A couple of notes on this week's summary: First, I never received any update from enochbenjamin or ADarkerRattlingMe after Thursday, so I based their figures on the last statement posted by each. If they should provide an update that is different from those figures, I will publish an updated Week 2 summary. Second, amswak officially joined the race this week, but he had placed some trades in his account prior to posting the initial equity screen capture. Therefore, I am starting him at his revised equity level, and not counting his trades on Friday towards his total for The Race. Third, we have at least two folks who have posted their interest in joining The Race. I cannot officially enter anyone in The Race's field until a screen capture showing initial starting equity is posted to this thread.

 

I know bathrobe is intending to take vacation, and will not be updating for about four weeks or so.

 

If anyone of those declared has decided to drop out of The Race, please PM me so that the weekly summary can reflect that fact. If you are simply not trading for a period of time, please post that information to the thread so we know not to look for updated statements from you.

 

 

Good Luck to all in the coming week!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales