Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

thalestrader

The Race

Recommended Posts

...one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period...

 

Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make many times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

:2c:

Edited by TMBTC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... Days like today I usually make hay but something was not right in my head and I'm wondering if it was "the race". .

 

From the pnl thread two months ago ...

 

wow! i need to be spanked! I broke the ultimate trading axiom - never let a winner turn into a loser. was up $370 and in a futile attempt to get $130 more bucks wound up losing it all +another 470

 

Not for nothing enoch, but The Race is not what is wrong with your trading. As a matter of fact, as crazy as I'm sure this sounds to the vast majority of TL lurkers reading this thread, I believe that you may find that The Race can help you identify what's wrong, if you use it as the tool it is.

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I wouldn't try to race to a million with, say, 10k in an account. I do not have that kind of "play money" and one would need to get reckless to try to make a million with a $10k account in anything less than a 20 year period.

 

May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Don't assume that because you would need 20 years, everyone else would also need 20 years. Is it that hard to believe that there are traders that are much better than you and could make 100 times what you claim is possible without getting "reckless?"

 

It'd be different if you said that you would need to get reckless, but you said "one" would need to get reckless...implying that it applies to everyone.

 

:2c:

 

I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am 100% sure that there are traders that are 100 times better than me at trading, the thing is that I am not 100% sure that there are traders who are 100 times better than you and if I was 100% sure that there were traders who are 100 times better than you, I wouldn't care to point it out.

 

At a 30% tax bracket it would take a 37% annually compounded rate of return to have an account worth +- $ 1,000,000 at the end of 20 years if you started with $10,000 today. I did not mean to imply that I thought I could do that in 20 years because I know for a fact that I can’t unless I get incredibly lucky. I simply threw 20 years out there as a large number.

 

And, I apologize for crushing dreams if your dream is to make that type of return. More power to you. Make sure you pay taxes in your dreams too because they will get taken out every year.

 

MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MM, you don't pay it if you don't make it. Nonetheless, you need to open your brain a bit, there is more to accomplish that what you have set forth in your mind. Just follow along on this journey and perhaps you'll see other ways of accomplishing things.

 

We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
We pay taxes on everything we make every year in the USA. There is no avoiding it unless you are very poor.

 

It is crystal clear to me that there are lots of ways to accomplish things. but thanks anyway for your advice and I hope that you and your mind accomplish all that you set out to accomplish and have a good time doing it.

 

 

Thanks. Will do. Have fun watching.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey guys, if I am fortunate to turn a dime into a mil, please be quick to to verify my account. Once verified, I want to draw it back down to zero so I don't have to pay taxes. Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
May I ask, MM, what you think is a reasonable profit one might expect from a good trader actively trading a 10K stake over, say a twelve month period? At what point would you consider the gains to be the result of recklessness? Is 50K on a 10K base too much to expect? 20K? 10k? 5K? 2K?

 

I'm not trying to be adversarial. I think this is a fair subject for discussion within this thread - what do folks reading this thread expect, in terms of profit, from their trading. What do you expect from your trading?

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

Thales,

 

I have been involved in similar discussions and it ends up with a bunch of name calling and I don't have the energy for it, nor do I want to dirty your tread with it. I have already discussed the need to pay taxes on returns and debated my poor use of "one" when I rightfully should have used "I". However, I trust that you know that the answer to that question depends on a lot of variables that are different for every single trader.

 

I use the word reckless to categorize the behavior that might cause you to blow up your account in a very short period of time.

 

MM

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

Interesting point. What if the rules next time are to get to 100,000% return, or maybe square an account (i.e. $1,000^2 = $1,000,000)?

 

Personally, I think this will be a good learning experience, both for those participating and those lurking....lol, and it may just become an "I told you so" for those who are not fans...

 

p.s. got my sandbox account opened today and hope to have it funded tomorrow. Will post initial balance asap

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi guys,

 

I trade the australian markets, and today, i have seen the first sign of strength in a while. Some serious demand came into some of the stop 60 of our markets today, RIO, BHP, NCM, FMG, all showed very strong signs of demand, and often are indicators of market sentiment for the following few days.

 

In my opinion, our markets dont follow the US that strongly, but lately tend to price "ahead" of time, so i would not be suprised if we see some strength in the US tonight. Looks to me like this may be the spring in another possibly very little profitable short term move. :2c:

 

I think i may be the only one in this competition trading stocks?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi Thalestrader,

 

This is an absolutely fantastic idea for a thread and I would love to participate.

 

I am starting a new spread betting account for the purposes. I will put just enough in to cover margin for the first trade I am going to take. As soon as I have found a setup and deposited the money, I will post a screenshot on here.

 

Thanks again for this.

 

I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My statement for yesterday will be late today as I am going golfing, though like I mentioned already I had lost 18 points on the Aussie. This morning was a bit worse with a 28 point loss on the Euro. My system said long, so I went long into a sinking market.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I'm very happy to have you aboard, Trader Dante. I recall your journal at T2W from some years back where you were trading a small spread betting account, and I look forward to watching you do it here at TL. Welcome to The Race, and I hope you hit the million!

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

 

I would second that. Another strong contender is my hunch!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm considering to open an account with a broker who can offer a 1:500 leverage or more.

 

I'm a pure scalper and when try to hold positions i mostly get stopped out.

 

Haven't done significant progress since the start.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Bit of debate about starting account sizes and that some would have preferred larger balances. If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes - just putting that out there in case it wasn't considered (of which I highly doubt from the astute folk here).

 

With kind regards,

MK

 

I have opened an account with MB Trading and will probably fund it with 3k during next week. I may switch to trading that account for the balance of "The Race". My initial small account certainly does put me in a bit of "catch up" mode to get to the starting capital of the rest of the racers....

 

Cheers,

fxT

Edited by fxThunder
typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... If the goal was instead a huge % gain on initial stake then the initial account size criteria all changes...

 

If it were a % gain on initial stake contest, I'd stand down and have my daughter trade another microlot account.

 

I really didn't give this much thought, as The Race was my response to sicktrader's "1k to 1,000,000" phrasing in the "let's Trade" thread. I wanted to keep it close to 1K. In future iterations of The Race, I'd be open to allowing different equity levels depending upon the trader's chosen market and style, e.g. 3K for futures day traders, 10K for futures swing traders, 25k for stock day traders, and 50K for stock swing traders. Off of the top of my head, each of those amounts would control a similar notional value of securities/ instruments (give or take, folks, give or take).

 

Best Wishes,

 

Thales

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Date: 7th June 2024. ECB closer look: All options open for the second half of the year! ECB officials continue to dampen rate cut speculation, following on from Lagarde’s hawkish comments yesterday. Officials have been out in force this morning to continue stressing that the inflation outlook remains uncertain and that the central bank is not committing to a particular rate path for the rest of the year. The ECB cut rates by 25 basis points, but as we expected it was a “hawkish” cut that left all options open for the second half of the year. Lagarde repeatedly stressed that future decisions will be data dependent, and even refused to confirm that yesterday’s move was the first step of an easing cycle. Rate cuts in September and December are still a possibility, but not cast in stone. Simkus admitted that there may be more than one rate cut this year, but on the whole, the comments were designed to keep a lid on speculation that the central bank kicked off a rate cut cycle yesterday. Austria’s central bank head Holzmann went on record yesterday to confirm that he was the sole dissenter objecting to a cut yesterday, and so far the doves have been quiet, which is helping to affirm Lagarde’s hawkish message yesterday.   Details of the Rate Cut The ECB delivered the first rate cut in five years and lowered key rates by 25 basis points. The deposit rate is now at 3.75% and the main refinancing rate at 4.25%. It was a “hawkish cut,” as near term inflation forecasts were revised higher, and Lagarde flagged that domestic inflation remains high. The statement stressed that the ECB is not pre-committing to a particular rate path, and the comments leave all options on the table for the second half of the year.   Economic Activity and Forecasts  The ECB noted the improvement in economic activity through the first quarter of the year. Lagarde also highlighted that manufacturing is showing signs of stabilization, with stronger exports expected to support growth in coming quarters. At the same time, monetary policy should be less of a drag on demand over time, according to the ECB. The new set of forecasts show GDP rising 0.9% this year, which is more than the 0.6% expected back in March. The forecast for 2025 has been revised slightly down to 1.4% from 1.5% previously, and the ECB still expects a slight acceleration to 1.6% for 2026. The inflation forecast for this year was raised to 2.5% from 2.3%, and the projection for 2025 was hiked to 2.2% from 2.0%. As such, inflation will fall toward the target later than previously anticipated, though the forecast for 2026 was left unchanged at 1.9%. This means the headline rate is still expected to fall below the target at the end of the forecast horizon.   Upside Risks to Inflation The statement noted upside risks to the inflation outlook from wages and profits, which could be higher than currently anticipated. Geopolitical tensions and extreme weather events could also push up prices once again, according to the ECB. At the same time, the ECB acknowledged that inflation could come in lower than anticipated if monetary restrictions have more of a dampening effect than currently anticipated, or if global growth weakens more than projected.   The press conference was mainly dedicated to driving home the point that future decisions will depend on data available at the time of the respective meeting. Lagarde even refused to confirm that the central bank has effectively kicked off an easing cycle, and said in response to a question that she wouldn’t necessarily say that the ECB started a “dialing-back process”. She suggested it is likely, but refused to confirm it, which in theory means rates could actually go up again. This seems unlikely, given that this move was a near unanimous decision, but its makes clear that the ECB will not cut rates at every meeting and that the outlook for the rest of the year is still very much open. The ECB still thinks that monetary policy needs to remain restrictive for the foreseeable future against the backdrop of high domestic inflation. However, as chief economist Lane suggested recently, officials will have to debate at every meeting whether the data allows the central bank to dial back the degree of restrictiveness.   Employment and Inflation Dynamics Wage growth, profits, and services price inflation will remain the key numbers to watch through the rest of the year. Lagarde pointed to data on the compensation of employees, due to be released tomorrow, but also flagged that current wage agreements are often still backward looking, as they reflect attempts to compensate for the sharp rise in prices since the start of the Ukraine war. As we flagged previously, the multi-year wage agreements in Germany are a prime example of that. However, as Lagarde highlighted, the deals on the table so far show sharp increases for this year, but also imply a slowdown in wage growth in coming years. However, unemployment is at a record low and the number of vacancies has dropped only slightly. At the same time, service price inflation remains stubbornly high, which suggests that companies have sufficient room to pass on higher labor costs. With real disposable income rising, thanks to lower inflation and higher wages, companies could find it even easier to hike prices in the second half of the year, and yesterday’s rate cut is also likely to boost demand. In the current situation, this could add to domestic price pressures. Looking ahead, the only thing that is clear is that Lagarde did her best to keep expectations of back-to-back cuts under control. The chances still are that the ECB will deliver two more 25 basis point cuts in September and December, but at this point, nothing is cast in stone. Always trade with strict risk management. Your capital is the single most important aspect of your trading business. Please note that times displayed based on local time zone and are from time of writing this report. Click HERE to access the full HFM Economic calendar. Want to learn to trade and analyse the markets? Join our webinars and get analysis and trading ideas combined with better understanding on how markets work. Click HERE to register for FREE! Click HERE to READ more Market news. Andria Pichidi Market Analyst HFMarkets Disclaimer: This material is provided as a general marketing communication for information purposes only and does not constitute an independent investment research. Nothing in this communication contains, or should be considered as containing, an investment advice or an investment recommendation or a solicitation for the purpose of buying or selling of any financial instrument. All information provided is gathered from reputable sources and any information containing an indication of past performance is not a guarantee or reliable indicator of future performance. Users acknowledge that any investment in FX and CFDs products is characterized by a certain degree of uncertainty and that any investment of this nature involves a high level of risk for which the users are solely responsible and liable. We assume no liability for any loss arising from any investment made based on the information provided in this communication. This communication must not be reproduced or further distributed without our prior written permission.
    • TRGP Targa Resources stock narrow range breakout watch above 119.02, https://stockconsultant.com/?TRGP
    • ROOT stock, short term downtrend break, bullish stats , https://stockconsultant.com/?ROOT
    • CVNA Carvana stock great setup at 101.16 support area, high trade quality, target 128-136, https://stockconsultant.com/?CVNA
    • IBM stock attempting to move higher off lower support area, https://stockconsultant.com/?IBM
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.