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Please don't take this as a bash, please respond to this, because it does make me curious as to how you said you have no idea about how someone could make a thousand dollars in 10min. Anybody that trades futures would know this is possible to gain 1000 or lose thousand in 10min.

 

 

You missed out the qualification: consistent basis

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I never said that you could consistently make 1,000 dollars every consistent 10minutes that would be ridiculous. I simply stated how it is not uncommon for that to happen once in a while trading futures. I average about $3,000/day some of my friends can get about 10K.

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I am confused with this post, because it lacks two things. Firstly, you are making an assumption about something that you have never tried. How can you judge something which you are not a part of...

 

because those of us who have been at this for a while know the game. We know how tough it is to make money, let alone consistent money, and we also know that if we had a consistent way to do that, we wouldn't be selling it to anyone.

 

The problem with your logic is that it would lead you to purchase every 'get rich quick' scheme that shows up on TV. After all, 'how can you know it won't work until you try it?' !

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because those of us who have been at this for a while know the game. We know how tough it is to make money, let alone consistent money, and we also know that if we had a consistent way to do that, we wouldn't be selling it to anyone.

 

The problem with your logic is that it would lead you to purchase every 'get rich quick' scheme that shows up on TV. After all, 'how can you know it won't work until you try it?' !

 

Yes Biko, the logic is off and likely the gentleman is a shill. The way he phrases his comment is meant to suggest that he is making a lot of money, and that we should all be looking at this website because he "knows" that others are doing this as well...

 

You are correct, this is a difficult profession. Recently I have tried to help several retail traders so I know just how difficult it is...the first hurdle is getting a tradable system in place and learning to use the tools, the next is probably the most difficult and that is the psychological issues. The truth of the matter is that most retail traders are unprepared to accept risk (they simply can't accept loss/they are risk "intolerant")...It takes a while to show them that you have learn to "lose" before you can win in this game...I try to do this in steps....first I demonstrate what it is like to put on consistently winning trades....then as we move forward I show them that when you trade very conservatively.....although you don't lose much....you miss important opportunities to profit...and the final hurdle is showing them how to "compromise" and to trade with "controlled agression"...so that they catch as many important opportunities as they can, given their risk tolerance....Based on what I have seen recently THIS is the critical issue, not setups, not indicators, not systems, but learning how to trade aggresively, how to tolerate minimal losses and still come out with a profit at the end of each time period...It sounds simple but in reality it is THE LIMITING FACTOR for retail traders....

This is why when I read like the ones about Shadow Traders, I am skeptical...

 

Good luck people

Steve

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Yes Biko, the logic is off and likely the gentleman is a shill. The way he phrases his comment is meant to suggest that he is making a lot of money, and that we should all be looking at this website because he "knows" that others are doing this as well...

 

You are correct, this is a difficult profession. Recently I have tried to help several retail traders so I know just how difficult it is...the first hurdle is getting a tradable system in place and learning to use the tools, the next is probably the most difficult and that is the psychological issues. The truth of the matter is that most retail traders are unprepared to accept risk (they simply can't accept loss/they are risk "intolerant")...It takes a while to show them that you have learn to "lose" before you can win in this game...I try to do this in steps....first I demonstrate what it is like to put on consistently winning trades....then as we move forward I show them that when you trade very conservatively.....although you don't lose much....you miss important opportunities to profit...and the final hurdle is showing them how to "compromise" and to trade with "controlled agression"...so that they catch as many important opportunities as they can, given their risk tolerance....Based on what I have seen recently THIS is the critical issue, not setups, not indicators, not systems, but learning how to trade aggresively, how to tolerate minimal losses and still come out with a profit at the end of each time period...It sounds simple but in reality it is THE LIMITING FACTOR for retail traders....

This is why when I read like the ones about Shadow Traders, I am skeptical...

 

Good luck people

Steve

 

Steve try this, listen to the 1 hours webinar on tuesday afternoon while she trades on live market data using a demo account. Match it with your charts, and mymic her trades on YOUR software. I'm sure you'd be surprised with the fact that she just made you money off copying her trades live. Just try it man... Look I live in Texas, shadowtraders is located in FL and TN... i dont work for them.

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Hey guy, I own the Shadow Traders software. The KEY to they method is set of MOVING AVERAGES. They use 13 EMA, 20 SMA, 50 SMA, 100SMA, 200 SMA. They also have some proprietary indicators which I personally do not use. Is the software good? I think so. Is it a holy grail. NO! The key to success in trading is discipline and a good trading plan tightly followed. I hope this helps.

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Hey guy, I own the Shadow Traders software. The KEY to they method is set of MOVING AVERAGES. They use 13 EMA, 20 SMA, 50 SMA, 100SMA, 200 SMA. They also have some proprietary indicators which I personally do not use. Is the software good? I think so. Is it a holy grail. NO! The key to success in trading is discipline and a good trading plan tightly followed. I hope this helps.

 

Hey Pickon, finally glad to see someone else here that uses the software as well as I do. Although you are correct about the EMA and SMAs the main problem though with what you stated is that your method would only justify success when the averages break out of a fist... You'd be waiting 4 hours inbetween those periods starring at a screen. You need to go back and learn to use pivots and everything to be far more productive. :)

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Hey Pickon, finally glad to see someone else here that uses the software as well as I do. Although you are correct about the EMA and SMAs the main problem though with what you stated is that your method would only justify success when the averages break out of a fist... You'd be waiting 4 hours inbetween those periods starring at a screen. You need to go back and learn to use pivots and everything to be far more productive. :)

 

Hi there Oatman;

I am also using Shadow Traders software but I am struggling. Can I get more info from you in a private discussion? As you say, it is very ineffective to stare at the screen for 4 hours waiting for a set up. My temporary email is temp34@num.hush.com where you can contact me and then I can give you my real email. (I don't want a lot of spam!) Thanks a lot!

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Is this the shadow traders stuff where they have either one of two women demo the software on a Tuesday night at 8 PM EST and they show the 6E contract live and pick off 2 pips in the trading sim?

 

Then, when anyone asks what the stop-loss would be on a trade like that, you won't get a straight answer and she'll act like you don't need one because "shadow trader knows" where the market is going just about all the time?

 

Guys, I only have 8.5 years trading the futures full-time, but the whole thing (to me) wreaks of the ST software sellers posing as real traders, appealing to the primary weakness within all newer traders: the desire to trade a high winning pct system.

 

It is bogus to scalp at market noise levels even at the 90% winning level. You never want to have just 1-2 trades taking back 5-10 super small winners. You want to look for systems more in the 50% winning area and look to get 1.5 to 2.5 more on the wins (averaging out) in the long-term to the 1.8-2.0 area.

 

This woman showed what looked like simple short-term trendlines and attached a different name to them. The big warning sign was when she said that this was just a very small portion of the overall package. It's a warning because newbies perceive "more" as better while more experienced traders strive for as little as possible to find the trading opportunities.

 

Another weird thing was that youtube was showing seminar attendees giving short testimonials from some resort in the Caribbean. WTF? So they can say make claims which would not be legal on American soil?

 

Cut your looses and learn some price action type trading. Stay away from trading groups which promote a trading system, let alone want your money for its use. NO ONE is in the business of selling you a winning system. They're in the business of convincing you to part with your money before the market takes it from you first before you quit.

 

All of these people are NOT TRADERS. Instead, they give you the impression that they are so that you drop your guard and think your just doing what you need to in order to succeed (i.e., paying someone else for help). If it were all real then they would be attracting all kinds of hedge fund money to apply their methods to and would be making 100's of millions in performance fees and not this small-timer stuff (like you, at the retail level of the biz).

 

I've said my piece. ST software, Woodies CCI indicators, "red light / green light" black box infomercial stuff...whatever...it's all the same...the quickest way to a blown-out account. All of these have one thing in common: the sales pitch to the objective observer sounds to good to be true.

 

Look if you're a day trader in the futures and you can't see loads of price action opportunities on a simple 5 min candle chart with a 20 ema as a trend reference point where all it demands is your research time and execution practice and not extracing $1000's from your wallet on "proprietary indicators" and "advanced workshops", then you really need to reconsider if this is a game you should be playing. The beginners who survive everything I've warned about return to simplicity backed by research, not complexity which was welcomed when they started and thought to be greater protection against the probability of losing...it's not.

 

[interesting note. nkhoi over at elitetrader did a business lookup on them and it appears there are 4-5 people involved running several shell companies related just to this ST biz. Since when do you need that kind of business structure for so few people involved?]

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[interesting note. nkhoi over at elitetrader did a business lookup on them and it appears there are 4-5 people involved running several shell companies related just to this ST biz. Since when do you need that kind of business structure for so few people involved?]

 

possibly when you have multiple sales teams with multiple products so that you can cut and run quickly if need be - maybe they are traders??? ;)

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I too am intrigued by shadowtraders. However there are some red flags:

 

#1-When you sign up for their free webinar they have just about every week, they are always trading in sim mode. Why cant they show us a real account? (In fact doesnt almost every software or chat room vendor never show you his p/l statements??? I wonder why?)

 

#2-When you watch some of their you tube videos, the minutes that pass in the video is always much less time that in real life. In other words when an 8 min video starts it might show the last trade at 10:35am and 8 min later on a 1 min chart you see 25 or 30 bars have gone by and it shows on the chart it is 11:05am. ****This last one is the one that really bothers me!

 

I hope to hear from more of you who took the shadowtraders course and can tell us more about it. But the gentleman who said he was trading 8.5 years and thinks if it works they would just give it to a hedge fund has got a point. Also, if they are scalping just a few ticks at a time, they would have to be buying on the bid and selling on the ask all the time. What happens if they dont get filled? They never mentioned in 3 free webinars I watched what their max risk is. Hmmmmmm..........

 

Yet for a co, in biz so many years, they dont seem to have that many complaints.

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Ok guys,

 

I just got an invite from shadowtraders to join tomorrows free webinar. They for the first time since Ive been skeptically following them thru the freebies, they had sent this out about having a paid student call you. Maybe if several of us leave our number and see if the same guy calls us back or not, that will tell us if this is a scam, or the real deal. Here is what they sent me. You can ask them questions at:support@shadowtraders.com Remember...Im as skeptical as most of you are!!! Maybe if we all check out the free webinar tomorrow, we can come back here and intelligently compare notes. This co. does scare me.

 

Excerpt from their email to me:

 

Here's the key...Many of you have been burned by expensive vaporware (trading software that doesn't work), expensive courses,

expensive seminars. We know, we get lots of students who tell us about their experiences. Because we would like to get you going in the right direction, here's what we want to do. We have students who are willing to talk to you one-on-one about Shadowtraders.

They will tell you the honest truth, no sugar coating...we made sure of that. These are students who took the leap of faith. Most of our students are referrals from other students, family members, etc. So they are willing to share their experiences with you.

 

If you are thinking of doing Shadowtraders seminar this weekend but want to hear the truth from existing students, email back your telephone number, best time to call, and your time zone. One of our students will call you back and give you their honest opinion. Again, this is not some sugar coated, greatest thing since sliced bread.

They will tell you their honest experiences with Shadowtraders. That's what you want to hear.

--

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Be wary of anyone in the trading business selling ANYthing, especially a sucker's web site like the one in question here. Please, save the money and give it to the market instead and at least you'll get some real experience.

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Be wary of anyone in the trading business selling ANYthing, especially a sucker's web site like the one in question here. Please, save the money and give it to the market instead and at least you'll get some real experience.

 

Yep. Couldn't say it better myself. Take joshdance's advice. Keep away from software that offer signals. To trade you really have to learn about market by yourself. Can't depend on a software!

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I tried their program a couple of years ago -what a mistake ! In a very short time I realized I had been hoodwinked. It was quite the task to get my money back but I did - I was so po'ed.

This forum is worth 100 trading books and courses and much more because of the folks that are willing to share their ideas. If you can't find any good ideas here I'd say you have a problem. I think the very first response in this tread from Tams eluded to this.

Anyway that's my take.

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