Jump to content

Welcome to the new Traders Laboratory! Please bear with us as we finish the migration over the next few days. If you find any issues, want to leave feedback, get in touch with us, or offer suggestions please post to the Support forum here.

  • Welcome Guests

    Welcome. You are currently viewing the forum as a guest which does not give you access to all the great features at Traders Laboratory such as interacting with members, access to all forums, downloading attachments, and eligibility to win free giveaways. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free. Create a FREE Traders Laboratory account here.

brownsfan019

Open and Free Discussion on Volume

Recommended Posts

So the idea is that if you folks say it enough times the masses will start to believe it?

 

The obvious answer to this rhetoric is no... I feel you adequately represent the masses (thinking and beliefs).

 

 

After all, are we to believe that bulk of the volume trade during the 15:25 EDT bar (based on Ninjatrader's time stamp) occurred prior to the price break, and price dropped in response to that increase in volume? Or did price break, and volume swelled as price continued to move down from the now broken support?

 

You are free to "believe" whatever you chose. It is the sequences of volume which must complete and these sequences are what are being monitored (This is not a single data set as you perceive - i.e. one volume bar). A trader performs a routine of monitoring and analysis and then makes decisions and takes actions based on this price/volume sequence.

 

In the end, the real question is how do you trade it? See my charts attached here: If I were not already in a short position, I would have traded that break with a sell stop at 896 and a stop loss at 899.25. I would have had a profit target somewhere just above 891.25 support. Anyone, including my nine year old daughter, can look at the chart, read my explanation as to how I would have traded that break, and duplicate it in the future. This is emphatically not the case with the contributions made by you and your friends to this thread.

 

There are many ways to make money trading markets. Spydertrader purports one way and I concur with the principles he ascribes.

 

The history of the world shows that people are many followers and few leaders. People are always looking for someone or something to follow.

 

My goal is to follow the market and listen to it. The principles of price and volume and the sequences provide (me) the information required.

 

As I said before, anyone can put "I sold here" and "I covered here" on a dead chart 72 hours after the closing bell and look, or I should say, try to look like a genius.

 

There is nothing glamorous about the day or the trade. In fact it was just mundane. It was a slow day (it is summer) and the market did not provide any signals other than hold the entire day (for the fractal I trade). This is not genius stuff or an attempt to appear as such.

 

 

But no one here could look at what you did and duplicate the trade in the future on the basis upon which you claim to have made it, because there has been no basis given.

 

The intent of the attachment was to demonstrate (more or less) a repeatable process of the application of the principles.

 

 

I really do not believe I am being unreasonable. If you folks are for real, then why not share the minimum required for intelligent and respectful human communication?

 

I participate here at TL because it has always seemed, for the most part, like a forum of seriously interested folks, with very little of the guru speak and fraud that one sees over at other forums, most notoriously notable, ET. I have apparently stirred the nest and we have attracted the the attention of the minions of a few gurus who have a near cult-like following (see how many who have rushed to defend the manifesto are new to TL, and who have a mere handful or even fewer posts here). In the interest of preserving the character of TL, and hoping that this contagion maybe contained, rather than spread throughout the forum, I will no longer participate in this thread.

 

So you are acquainted with and have observed the intelligent and respectful communication effort undertaken to transfer knowledge of the principles of price and volume. I take no offense at your beliefs. I simply was unaware of this forum until yesterday and thought I would join up and say hello to some of my colleagues. I apologize for interrupting. Open and honest dialogue is never a bad thing regardless of ones views and/or opinions.

 

Happy Independence Day

 

Peace.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just for fun, what is the 'day' or the time frame if you will, for people who trade the equity index futures markets (say ES for example) using price or price + volume? Is it 9:30 AM - 4:15 PM EST or is it a 'CME' day, which for practical purposes begins and ends at 4:15 PM EST (the 'fix or settlement' and the 'nap time' are considered to be part of the next day)?

 

CME Globex

(ETH)MON-THURS: 5:00 p.m.-3:15 p.m. & 3:30 p.m.-4:30 p.m.

(Daily maintenance shutdown 4:30 p.m.-5:00 p.m.)

SUN: 5:00 p.m.-3:15 p.m.

 

What I'm getting at is where (what time frame) do traders 'get' the information that they use to trade?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

What I'm getting at is where (what time frame) do traders 'get' the information that they use to trade?

 

I guess it depends on what (swing sizes) they are trying to capture, it does for me at least. I am prone to 'zoom in' too far (or more accurately for too long) and that can result in loosing sight of the forest through examining the leaves on the trees.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9:30-4:15 is what I use and all other traders I know who use day timeframe calculations use this too.

 

So do you disregard what has happened between 4:15 PM and 9:30 AM (all times discussed here are ES(D)T) with respect to it having an impact on how you trade? Obviously I don't know what sort of trader you are and if you were a scalper it may be that if a new contract high was made at 4 AM, the time itself wouldn't concern you as much as the fact that a new high was put in.

 

Another question if you will. From 4:00 PM till 4:15 PM, is it true that futures traders are relatively free of the 'influence' of the cash market, not unlike the equity players getting rid of the bondsmen at 15:00? If so, of what consequence, if any, is the price (P) or price + volume (PV) action during this 15 minutes for the next day's open? Is it a 'special' time, because the reality is that futures palyers are going to be without the 'influence' of the cash market until 9:30 AM the next day?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I guess it depends on what (swing sizes) they are trying to capture, it does for me at least. I am prone to 'zoom in' too far (or more accurately for too long) and that can result in loosing sight of the forest through examining the leaves on the trees.

 

By swing sizes, do you mean volume?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
By swing sizes, do you mean volume?

 

No, more the size of moves that you are trying to capture. Someone scalping for half a dozen ticks might want to look at different stuff to someone trying to get 10 plus point swings. I know that you said 'intraday' but within that sort of time there are a variety of different 'swings' you might focus on.

 

What you want to see should dictate what/where you look.

 

Of course things aren't absolute 'daily swings' tend to be bigger than 'hourly swings' but volatility plays a part too.

 

Put another way knowing how long you want to be a trade and roughly the size of moves you want to capture is likely to steer you towards suitable tools to see what you need to achieve your objectives.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
No, more the size of moves that you are trying to capture. Someone scalping for half a dozen ticks might want to look at different stuff to someone trying to get 10 plus point swings. I know that you said 'intraday' but within that sort of time there are a variety of different 'swings' you might focus on.

 

What you want to see should dictate what/where you look.

 

Of course things aren't absolute 'daily swings' tend to be bigger than 'hourly swings' but volatility plays a part too.

 

Put another way knowing how long you want to be a trade and roughly the size of moves you want to capture is likely to steer you towards suitable tools to see what you need to achieve your objectives.

 

So depending on your trading style you'd say, "Well, I'm going to stay in this trade until I make so many ticks or points, then exit, unless I get stopped out first." Correct?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So depending on your trading style you'd say, "Well, I'm going to stay in this trade until I make so many ticks or points, then exit, unless I get stopped out first." Correct?

 

I am not asked, but ...

 

well, I will tell you my view.

 

I thought I have learned to move my stop quickly to BE.

 

My action was, I moved it too quickly! Result BE or poorer.

 

I thought I have learned about risk and reward,

 

But, as I see it now, it depends on how I act, and when I act.

(Entry, cut/stop, exit.)

 

I thought I was at the point many times.

 

Well, I think I am at the point once more.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

P.S.: In my view it is still a process.

(An ongoing process.)

 

Forever!

Edited by HAL9000
;-) As alsways.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I am not asked, but ...

 

well, I will tell you my view.

 

I thought I have learned to move my stop quickly to BE.

 

My action was, I moved it too quickly! Result BE or poorer.

 

I thought I have learned about risk and reward,

 

But, as I see it now, it depends on how I act, and when I act.

(Entry, cut/stop, exit.)

 

I thought I was at the point many times.

 

Well, I think I am at the point once more.

 

Time will tell.

 

 

Regards,

 

Hal

 

P.S.: In my view it is still a process.

(An ongoing process.)

 

Forever!

 

Thanks for your input Hal. Anyone can say whatever they want in response to my questions. If you are an edge trader you use stops and targets and that's just the way it is and I agree it is non-trivial.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
So depending on your trading style you'd say, "Well, I'm going to stay in this trade until I make so many ticks or points, then exit, unless I get stopped out first." Correct?

 

Sort of, though you can only take what the markets offers. For example, your goal might be to trade from 10am to 12pm taking 'a handful' of trades trying to catch the 'main swings' (within that period) of roughly 'x points' in that period. How you define 'a handful', 'main swings' etc is up to you but that focus will dictate what tools will show you what you want to see.

 

I guess another way of putting it is pick tools that allow you to see what you want to see...rather than... pick tools and look at them and see what you see.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


  • Topics

  • Posts

    • Latest Binary Options No Deposit Bonuses in 2020 - https://binaryoptionsfree.eu/latest-binary-options-no-deposit-bonuses-in-2020/
    • A Friday look at covid1984 https://21stcenturywire.com/2020/06/04/lockdown-boris-karl-friston-80-not-even-susceptible-to-covid-19/     A Friday look at markets https://www.zerohedge.com/markets/staggering-powell-bubble-just-one-amazing-chart       A Friday look  at ‘race’ https://asiatimes.com/2020/06/why-americas-revolution-wont-be-televised/ btw If you have ANY concerns about race, you are racist !!! ... inevitable ... If you have no concerns about race, you are not racist !!! btw ‘afro americans’ need to wise up and discover who their real enemies are instead of just projecting  and breaking glass ...
    • https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/money-supply-m2 MOAI nflation in slow motion ie more Thank god Nothing and I mean NOTHING like Zimbabwe could ever happen in the developed nations because we are very smart and we don’t have any corruption or moral hazards...  We must understand that the zimbobs had no real need to nflate their money supply, while we do have a ‘real’ crisis that needs more money - insert  :sar chasm smilie for the many context deficits on board: ... We must understand that each increment of new fake money for the not very bright zimbobs (and also the inexperienced 'kingdumbs, viemers, venuzwalens, argents, etc etc')  was meant to be the last ... meanwhile - while  we are assured these measures are only temporary - we are provided no delusions contraindicating that we may have to go much much mush further ... but that we are still going to be THE exception... like - Federal Reserve Chairman Jerome Powell recently did an interview with Princeton economist Alan Blinder. Powell admitted that the central bank had “crossed a lot of red lines,” but insisted he was comfortable with the actions, given “this is that situation in which you do that, and you figure it out afterward.” (reassured yet?).  Binder then asked Powell if there is any limit to how much the Fed’s balance sheet can grow and Powell said he wasn’t concerned and the balance sheet has a long way to go. All ‘powell’ is doing is inflation. He is inflating the money supply. That is the definition of inflation. Expand the money supply. But ‘powell’ is not concerned. He’s a one indicator trader.  His indicator’s name is Falling Prices. ... and falling prices indicates to ‘powell’ that things are under the control of ‘normal’ economic cycles instead of under ‘powell’ control.  However it should be noted,  if ‘powell’ really believes there is no limit to the size of the balance sheet that means there is no limit to the depths to which the 'dollar' and all the other fake currs around the world can plunge.  In a podcast, Peter Schiff called it the Nancy Pelosi version of monetary policy. “We need to print the money to see where it goes.”  My momentary questions are 1 what % of denizens believe this is going to work? and 2 what would it take for them (you) to change these beliefs / this trust... ??? At this point please please please  DO NOT  look at a graph of the USD purchasing power for the last 110 years.   must stop now to BmoreofTFD :wink wink?:
    • Hyperinflation is a monetary phenomenon and demand is not as significant factor in pushing up prices. Prices go up because the value of the fiat paper money is falling as more and more is created. Example:  In Zimbabwe stores didn't even have goods on the shelves, people were hungry,  water and  electricity was scarce, no public transportation, gas was sold on the black market and large quantities of paper money confiscated...and yet the Stock market kept soaring... As the hyperinflation started to gain traction, there was a six week period in which the currency tumbled 10-fold. That’s a huge drop. During that time the stock market rose 500-fold. So corrected for inflation, the stock market rose 50-fold measured in US dollars. Six weeks later, the Zimbabwe currency had eroded another 100-fold and the Zimbabwe stock market went to zero. It fell 99.9% and then it stopped trading. In other words, ONLY those invested in PHYSICAL Gold and Silver were safe...the others lost it ALL!  Thank god Nothing and I mean NOTHING like that could ever happen in the developed nations because we are very smart and we don’t have any corruption or moral hazards ... see https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2  for how to smartly drag out destruction and collapse ... still, ultimately ... "Good money drives out the bad."  So we really just have the one little issue to deal with - for us  no good money currently exists on this planet to drive out the bad ...  ...maybe we should just trust them to build us a new eCurrency on their blockchain. .. I'm just sayin'
    • SP gets 'interesting' for me at ~3150 and / or ~ 06/15 ... just sayin'     ///   “I have love in me the likes of which you can scarcely imagine and rage the likes of which you would not believe. If I cannot satisfy the one, I will indulge the other,” Shelley’s Frankenstein ... could be anyone's Frankenstein ... we've all created a personal franken inside... just sayin'
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Terms of Use.