New to Trading and Seeking Guidance

[MattSS 10]

Hi, I'm a young unmarried guy with no kids and I have a desire to learn how to be a profitable trader. I come from a internet poker background where I made the money I have now. I live in America and can no longer play internet poker. There are many parallels between poker and trading I've heard. They both involve a lot of psychology and math and are ways to risk money in order to make money. I figure since I was good at poker I can probably become good at trading if I put in the same amount of work towards trading as I did toward poker (which was about 4 hours every day for 2.5 years - though since I want to get my trading biz off the ground sooner than 2.5 years I would say I would study/practice at least 6 hours per day). Also, if I could be confident that I were making the right decisions with my money, I'd be willing to risk 5k toward trading. If I thought there were a high chance of losing everything I tried to invest with I would prob only want to risk 2k.

 

So I'm basically a complete newb to trading. I've read about 10% of an introductory investing textbook from 1992. I know some of the basic definitions of some trading terminology and have a rough idea of some basic principles of trading.

 

When I got good at poker I had access to affordable resources (books, free forum articles from experienced players,and training videos from a subscription site that I paid 30$ per month for), and I think I need similar resources for learning how to trade. Any thoughts on how I could get affordable (free = best!) training to learning how to trade on the stock market?

 

From the textbook I've been reading I've developed an interest in buying and selling options. The appeal for me is that you can leverage stock with smaller amounts of money than it takes to actually purchase the stock outright. Any thoughts on my current inclination toward options? Any recommendations for training?

 

Theres sooooooo many books on the stock market, any thoughts on which books would be best for someone in my position?

 

What does the learning process consist of when it comes to becoming good at trading? Like what are the "steps of the learning curve"? Can you detail any of the "aha" moments that all profitable traders went through?

 

When I learned how to play internet poker I started off at the "micro-stakes". Micro-stakes are the smallest stakes poker you can find in the world. The lowest (where I started) was only 1cent/2cent blinds.The average bet size was only 20 cents and you only had 1 or 2 dollars "on the table" (at risk IOW). This allowed players to start with say 20-40 dollars of a bankroll and build a bankroll from this small amount of money and gain valuable experience at a low "tuition" cost. As they built their bankroll they could move up to the next stake, gain more experience, battle tougher players, win larger amounts of money all at the risk of their small initial investment. Is there anything like this in the trading world so that I could get experience at a low risk?

 

Thanks for reading

[zdo 20]

This reply may have no value to you individually – but I’ll stick it out there because some other reader may benefit.

I’ve previously written several posts all under the zdo handle about gaming and trading and about how gaming is pretend trading ie it developed ’in the field’ as a limited surrogate for real trading. …Search if you care.

TL and other forums have some good ‘transition’ from poker threads…Search if you care.

 

In poker, you got three main styles of playing – loose medium tight. If you know which one you are in poker then initially orient your search through trading techniques to find trading styles compatible with your poker style.

 

Next, how did you manage your ever changing position at the table? Find what your personal equivalent to where your sitting’ at the table is in trading. Hint: think MM, etc.

 

Poker, especially online, does not train you to read multiple competing (and situationally cooperating) large dynamic ‘crowds’ ( crowds as in LeBon’sThe Extraordinary Madness of Crowds… and not). In trading, that’s ultimately what you’re learning to do – whether you end up ‘using’ fundamental or technical or ‘whatever’ data to represent those crowds. Inside, how do you react to that? Does knowing this expand things for you or narrow you down?

 

In poker there is really only one time frame you can play to. In trading you can trade from seconds to years timeframes. What does that open up for you?

 

Re: Reading. If you have the capacity to do it I’d suggest you not “read” anything at first. Rather “skim” as much as fast as you can and only slow down and actually read when something really resonates. Instead of ‘mastering the material’, make your work questioning and answering how does this fit with my true nature. I.e. Leverage your beginner curiosity to cover as much ground as possible. You’ll naturally gravitate to one of the multitude of styles – ie taking a “when the student is ready the teacher will appear” attitude…

 

... and if you and trading take, expect to spend more than 4 hours a day at the beginning... 10,000 hours pattern yada yada

 

Re: “As they built their bankroll they could move up to the next stake, gain more experience, battle tougher players, win larger amounts of money all at the risk of their small initial investment. Is there anything like this in the trading world so that I could get experience at a low risk? Contrary to what you’ll hear from a vast majority of posters, I advise noob’s to start with real money, learn to trade, then practice on sim as needed.

So - Re: Starting with 2 to 5 k . I normally point beginners in the direction of futures (and occasionally stocks) and recovering traders in the direction of FX but with this small starting capital maybe try OANDA. They offer infinitely variable account and position sizing and also self variable leverage levels which is a fit to what you’re starting with. And FX has plenty of movement…

 

My brother stood before us, not on a bank of the Big Blackfoot River, but suspended above the earth, free from all its laws, like a work of art.

And I knew, just as surely and clearly, that life is not a work of art, and that the moment could not last

… eventually all things merge into one – and ” A River Runs Through It.

[MattSS 10]

This reply may have no value to you individually – but I’ll stick it out there because some other reader may benefit.

I’ve previously written several posts all under the zdo handle about gaming and trading and about how gaming is pretend trading ie it developed ’in the field’ as a limited surrogate for real trading. …Search if you care.

TL and other forums have some good ‘transition’ from poker threads…Search if you care.

 

...

 

Next, how did you manage your ever changing position at the table? Find what your personal equivalent to where your sitting’ at the table is in trading. Hint: think MM, etc.

 

I will look up those threads. I don't know what MM means. But I do know how position affects your decisions at the poker table. The main principle is that the more people you have left to act behind you, the tighter you have to play and the more people you have acting in front of you the looser you can play. When you have no one acting behind you you can play your loosest.

 

Poker, especially online, does not train you to read multiple competing (and situationally cooperating) large dynamic ‘crowds’ ( crowds as in LeBon’sThe Extraordinary Madness of Crowds… and not). In trading, that’s ultimately what you’re learning to do – whether you end up ‘using’ fundamental or technical or ‘whatever’ data to represent those crowds. Inside, how do you react to that? Does knowing this expand things for you or narrow you down?

 

All that means to me is I just need to learn the psychology of crowd behavior as it applies to trading. Its just another skill I have to develop.

 

In poker there is really only one time frame you can play to. In trading you can trade from seconds to years timeframes. What does that open up for you?

 

At the poker table you have a very limited amount of time to make your betting decisions therefore the amount of analysis you can do is limited by this time constraint. So with trading it would seem that you have more time to analyse your decisions and more time over which they may come to fruition. I like that.

 

Re: Reading. If you have the capacity to do it I’d suggest you not “read” anything at first. Rather “skim” as much as fast as you can and only slow down and actually read when something really resonates. Instead of ‘mastering the material’, make your work questioning and answering how does this fit with my true nature. I.e. Leverage your beginner curiosity to cover as much ground as possible. You’ll naturally gravitate to one of the multitude of styles – ie taking a “when the student is ready the teacher will appear” attitude…

 

Not sure how to skim without reading. I think if I said "I'm going to skim this" then I'd just end up reading it anyway. I guess if you mean to only read something once and if it seems to be of more value than other things I've read then to go back and "zoom in" on it and focus on whats being taught.

 

 

Re: “As they built their bankroll they could move up to the next stake, gain more experience, battle tougher players, win larger amounts of money all at the risk of their small initial investment. Is there anything like this in the trading world so that I could get experience at a low risk? Contrary to what you’ll hear from a vast majority of posters, I advise noob’s to start with real money, learn to trade, then practice on sim as needed.

So - Re: Starting with 2 to 5 k . I normally point beginners in the direction of futures (and occasionally stocks) and recovering traders in the direction of FX but with this small starting capital maybe try OANDA. They offer infinitely variable account and position sizing and also self variable leverage levels which is a fit to what you’re starting with. And FX has plenty of movement…

 

 

I'll research OANDA.

 

In the sticky for beginner's written by soultrader, he says that he recommends dow and S+P e-mini futures. So I've been thinking of researching how to trade dow e-mini futures since they are only 5$ per tick and thats low enough to allow me some wriggle room. Any tips on trading these? Any software you think I should get that would help me trade these? What about ninjatrader software?

[ericmoles 10]

Matt SS,

 

I want to reply to your thread. In order to craft my response to your situation, I had a few questions. Were you playing poker for a living and was it your sole income or are you currently working another job?

 

What size account will you be trading?

 

What are your goals in trading? Supplement income, growth of retirement funds, speculative (looking for a win-fall), replacement of income?

 

If you are looking to solely earn an income from trading, how much would you need to earn in order to consider yourself successful?

 

Eric

[MattSS 10]

Matt SS,

 

I want to reply to your thread. In order to craft my response to your situation, I had a few questions. Were you playing poker for a living and was it your sole income or are you currently working another job?

 

What size account will you be trading?

 

What are your goals in trading? Supplement income, growth of retirement funds, speculative (looking for a win-fall), replacement of income?

 

If you are looking to solely earn an income from trading, how much would you need to earn in order to consider yourself successful?

 

Eric

 

Poker was my only source of income for about 2 years. I was and still am living at home with my parents. So rent, food, utilities are all pretty much taken care of. My monthly expenses at the moment don't exceed 330$. I don't currently have a job. I've been entertaining the idea of offering some of my poker expertise to other poker players in the form of coaching for an hourly rate (average hourly rate for poker coaching is maybe 100$ per hour) or starting a flea market business with the help of my friend who is already successful at it.

 

When you ask "what account size will you be trading?" I can say that I would like my initial account size to be 500-2000 dollars at the start so that I'm not risking too much and I can get experience for a relatively low risk. I'm not well versed in what proper bankroll management is when it comes to how much money is considered a "safe" bankroll size in order to withstand the potential losses of trading x amount. I was thinking of starting with dow e-mini futures (5$ each per tick) as recommended in the sticky. They appeal to me for their smaller size and therefore smaller risk. The max I could afford to risk on investing would be 5k right now. If I lost that 5k I would still have enough money to live on for 9-10 months which would give me plenty of time to make money from other sources.

 

My goals in trading are to become good at intra-day trading with a speculative aim. When I was playing poker my goal was to get to the high stakes where much money can be made and since I can't do that with online poker anymore I think my aim has transitioned to learn how to do intra day trading very well so that I can make "good money". I'd be satisfied earning 40k from trading (since thats more than what I could earn in a regular job (I only have a 2 year degree and not much work experience, esp last two years)) but my desire would be to improve my skill to the point where I could make hundreds of thousands of dollars.

 

I think on top of the income from trading I would also be playing live poker out of still having a passion for the game. I would need to set up means to be able to get easier access to games though (my nearest casino is 100 miles away).

[zdo 20]

MattSS.

 

re: "MM"

MM = Money Management. sizing, risk, etc.

 

re: "All that means to me is I just need to learn the psychology of crowd behavior as it applies to trading. Its just another skill I have to develop."

Preface to my reply…

"If you make people think they're thinking, they'll love you; But if you really make them think, they'll hate you."

- Don Marquis

 

...and "if you let people know they're stupid; they'll think you are stupid. ANON

Bluntly – “skill” ?? Please think again… :helloooo:

Even better – ask yourself some more tough questions comparing the two games in consideration here… Fortunately, there is no way on god's green earth you could waste your time...

 

re: “recommends dow and S+P e-mini futures”

in my experience, 2 to 5 k is “statistically” not sufficient capital to trade YM or ES

Exceptions abound… but…

 

Re: "Any software ...?" . Ninja is ok. At that level, also check out TradeStation. ie Sample a wide range of platforms to see which one best has the features and look and feel, etc you like .

 

hth and good luck... (luck is involved...)

 

PS EricM, the essence of those questions have already been answered in the OP. (I know - now I’m really being a smartass…)

[MattSS 10]

wrt predicting crowd behavior, while I understand that human behavior is pretty unpredictable, I would imagine (just guessing here) that investors (esp day traders) try to predict how say a certain piece of news about a company or some world event will affect the value of related stocks. Amirite? I wasn't trying to imply that you can get really good at predicting how thousands of people are going to behave, just simply that investors do factor in the information that is put on the news and how it influences the general investing public. The part about it being a skill was saying that someone new like me prob wouldn't be as good at factoring in this type of information into their investing decisions and so this implies there is some skill involved.

 

zdo, you said in your first post:

 

"They [OANDA] offer infinitely variable account and position sizing and also self variable leverage levels which is a fit to what you’re starting with. And FX has plenty of movement…"

 

I don't understand what infinitely variable account sizing is (or infinitely variable position sizing or self variable leverage levels). How do these factors make OANDA a better choice for a bankroll of 2k-5k? And if I'm going to use OANDA as my first trading platform you think I should specialize in futures on there?

[ericmoles 10]

Matt,

 

I have some advice for you, and you probably won't like it. I'm all about following your dreams and what I'm about to say may sound negative, but I just want to paint a realistic picture for you.

 

Get a job and learn to trade on the side. This will be a slower path to producing your income from trading, but will provide less stress not having to rely on trading for a living and give you time to learn the lessons every trader learns on their path to success without losing as much money.

 

Profitable trading is hard work and definitely not a get rich quick scheme. Commonly accepted failure statistics thrown around are 75-95% of people failing. There are many reasons for this, and a big one is under-capitalization. In my opinion, you should go nowhere near futures or options with only $5,000. The DOW moved in a 600 point range today. Not having dealt with the emotions that come with trading and having no plan, you could have easily blown out your account in one day. I've heard people say that a $25,000 account is SMALL to trade futures.

 

Other reasons for failure are impatience and unrealistic expectations. In order to make $40,000, you would have to produce a return of 800%. That is the definition of unrealistic expectations. It is possible, it isn't probable (like winning with 7 2 offsuit or playing 10/20 blinds with a $100 bankroll). If you could consistently return 20-30% per year, you could be an all star hedge fund manager.

 

For every trade you go long or short, there is someone taking the other side of your trade. Your competition will be much harder than the poker world. You will be competing against guys with more knowledge, ivy league education, more money, more technology, and research teams.

 

In order to trade successfully, you need a plan that includes a system with a positive expectancy, patience, the discipline to follow your system, the ability to take smart and small losses and realize they are part of the game, the ability to let your winners run, and proper money management to keep you in the game and prevent a blow up.

 

My suggested steps are:

 

1. Get a job

2. Start reading as much as you can about trading

3. Develop a system for the forex market

3. Back test that system or paper trade it until you have proven that you can make money with it

4. Trade the system risking no more than .5-1% per trade (25-50 bucks in the case of your 5000 acct)

5. Analyze your results

6. Keep compounding your winnings and adding to your acct. from your job savings if you are successful.

7. Add non-correlated systems or strategies as your account grows.

8. Come back and re-read this after you have decided not to heed my advice and donated your $5000 to other market participants.

 

My suggested book for you is Trade Your Way to Financial Freedom by Van Tharp.

 

Good luck!

[ericmoles 10]

Here is a link to a good video/webinar to learn some of the basic components in order to become successful.

 

TL! Videos

 

If that link doesn't work, go to the video section of the TradersLaboratory website and search for 12 commandments of trading.

[ericmoles 10]

zdo, you said in your first post:

 

"They [OANDA] offer infinitely variable account and position sizing and also self variable leverage levels which is a fit to what you’re starting with. And FX has plenty of movement…"

 

I don't understand what infinitely variable account sizing is (or infinitely variable position sizing or self variable leverage levels). How do these factors make OANDA a better choice for a bankroll of 2k-5k? And if I'm going to use OANDA as my first trading platform you think I should specialize in futures on there?

 

What zdo is referring to is how big a position, or the minimum value of a position you can trade. With a stock, the least you can trade is 1 share. With futures and options, the least you can trade is 1 contract.

 

I'm not a forex trader, so maybe others will chime in here. A full size forex contract controls about 100,000 dollars of the currency you are trading. You get to profit or lose just like you owned the full 100,000, but you only have to put up a smaller amount (your margin) in order to trade that amount.

 

I think most US forex dealers offer 50 to 1 leverage. This means that to control 100,000 you would only need 2,000 in your account. Futures offer around 10:1 to 20:1 leverage. Stocks offer 4:1 if you have 25000 in the account, and 2:1 to hold overnight.

 

As a new trader, you don't need leverage. You need a plan and experience. Instead of trading 100,000, I think Oanda allows you to trade any dollar size you want (infinitely variable position sizing). I also think you can limit your leverage with them-- i.e. tell them " I don't want anymore than 20:1" and they can have the platform you trade on not let you buy anymore than that (self variable leverage).

 

Again, I'm not a forex trader, but I think I get the basics. If anyone wants to correct me, please do so.

[zdo 20]

Eric explained FX, Oanda pretty well.

Available leverage with Oanda is 10:1 , 20:1 , 30: … 40: and 50:1. Instantaneous changing via clicking a drop down vs going through office, etc… Eric suggested no leverage. I suggest finding what is true to your own nature re leverage. You’ll also have to discover for yourself which instrument classes are best for you to trade. Check

Forex vs. Stocks etc and

re “dow e-mini futures (5$ each per tick) as recommended in the sticky. They appeal to me for their smaller size and therefore smaller risk. The max I could afford to risk on investing would be 5k right now. “ Be advised: Generally speaking, the brokerages that will allow you to daytrade for less than 5K per contract are going to eat you up in commissions.

 

In summary, the advantages to using OandA for you would be:

You could

1. Be real / trade live from the beginning.

2. Use small size so that your stake is never at risk

3. Oanda platform is simple and straightforward

4. Looks like they just added access toMT4. Never used it but understand it is one of the best free platforms out there… not sure MT allows small position sizing though… but Oanda platform could be used ‘side by side’ with MT to just place orders

5. Account size can be $1 USD. Many firms have minimums - account size, etc..

 

I’ve used them off and on over the years and have had no problems. Since they had to pull offering leverage on PMs, I will not likely be giving them any business going forward… but continue to refer traders like you to them.

 

Idea: Open a demo account and see if you like the whole ball of wax… they aren’t the only game in town. If I were in your shoes, I would also seriously consider opening a TradeStation FX account ($5k minimum?) and trade mini lots.

 

 

 

 

I really don’t want to bust your bubbles but

re: “I would imagine (just guessing here) that investors (esp day traders) try to predict how say a certain piece of news about a company or some world event will affect the value of related stocks. Amirite?”

Vast majority do not understand the game (even though they write pages and pages about it). Actually that is a valid way of playing, but fyi, I personally have NEVER, NOT ONE TIME (yet ) tried to predict how a certain piece of news about a company or some world event will affect the value of related stocks. btw, I personally go around breaking half the all businessy 'trading plans and rules that work' too...

First find out if you really are a trader. (btw I would never tell a real trader to find a job. Plain silly...)

then

Find your own way!

hth

[ericmoles 10]

I would never tell a real trader to find a job either, but MattSS isn't a real trader, yet ; )

 

As per leverage, it isn't that I don't recommend it, it is that I don't recommend if for MattSS, yet. We don't learn to drive in a Ferrari.

 

Leverage is a tool, and will be around when MattSS needs it and is able to take advantage of it.

 

Small building blocks of success and confidence and realistic expectations will do far more for MattSS's future than will a quick double of the account followed by a blow up. IMHO.

 

See ya!

[zdo 20]

Eric, I understand what you're saying and appreciate your intentions, but the "38 or whatever list of rules of successful trading" is not the way. It's the consensus - but it's herd joining bait... the four lane to looserville.

Just maybe a quick double of the account followed by a blow up will do far more for MattSS's future than will "small building blocks of success and confidence and realistic expectations". It’s conceivable he has no idea how self virtuous you have to be as trader. I’m serious! You have to be so self virtuous that even the ‘discipline’ (as the 'paradigm' is hurled around in all the trading advice, etc) seems stupid!

[ericmoles 10]

ZDO

 

And I can understand what you are saying, but there are a couple of facts that Matt will have to deal with.

 

1 Most don't make it

 

and

 

2 If he blows up, he'll have to find another stake to start over.

 

It is my belief that the advice I've given Matt is based upon common traits of successful traders. If you have achieved success another way, that is great and we can all use the advice. Matt will have to decide what resonates with him and go from there.

 

Without difference of opinion, we would have no markets ; )

[Tradewinds 12]

Hi, I'm a young unmarried guy with no kids and I have a desire to learn how to be a profitable trader.

 

I think it would be great if Trader's Laboratory had a section for people who were willing to be trading mentors. Each person willing to be a trading mentor would need to outline a program that they would implement, and be subject to review from the people they mentored.

[dano42 10]

I think it would be great if Trader's Laboratory had a section for people who were willing to be trading mentors. Each person willing to be a trading mentor would need to outline a program that they would implement, and be subject to review from the people they mentored.

 

Fantastic idea. Reading, studying and researching (for most things I've found) are an important means, but when it comes time to "get into it," nothing beats one on one training and guidance..and of course experience (for me anyway). Going hands on with an instructor at your side (so to speak) improves the learning curve, helps confidence and works on curbing reluctance. Overall it is a great tool to help folks get started on their way...training wheels, if you will. After that, we're off with a sense of direction and confidence.

[MattSS 10]

Ericmoles and zdo thanks so much for all your info so far. I'm going to research the links you've provided (have done so a bit already). I had some follow up questions to your recent posts.

 

Matt,

 

 

3. Develop a system for the forex market

3. Back test that system or paper trade it until you have proven that you can make money with it

 

Where do I learn how to develop a system for the forex market?

 

Where can I learn how to back test or paper test a system? (don't know what a papertest and I think a backtest is where you take data from the market in the past and see how a system would have worked in that market)

 

(I think the table of contents of the book you recommended indicated it had some ideas about systems but I was wondering if there were any other resources that would be good in this area)

 

 

As a new trader, you don't need leverage. You need a plan and experience. Instead of trading 100,000, I think Oanda allows you to trade any dollar size you want (infinitely variable position sizing). I also think you can limit your leverage with them-- i.e. tell them " I don't want anymore than 20:1" and they can have the platform you trade on not let you buy anymore than that (self variable leverage).

 

Again, I'm not a forex trader, but I think I get the basics. If anyone wants to correct me, please do so.

 

 

In summary, the advantages to using OandA for you would be:

You could

1. Be real / trade live from the beginning.

2. Use small size so that your stake is never at risk

3. Oanda platform is simple and straightforward

4. Looks like they just added access toMT4. Never used it but understand it is one of the best free platforms out there… not sure MT allows small position sizing though… but Oanda platform could be used ‘side by side’ with MT to just place orders

5. Account size can be $1 USD. Many firms have minimums - account size, etc..

 

I’ve used them off and on over the years and have had no problems. Since they had to pull offering leverage on PMs, I will not likely be giving them any business going forward… but continue to refer traders like you to them.

 

Idea: Open a demo account and see if you like the whole ball of wax… they aren’t the only game in town. If I were in your shoes, I would also seriously consider opening a TradeStation FX account ($5k minimum?) and trade mini lots.

 

 

On OANDA, could I trade forex for like 1$ per trade to test out a system I've backtested/papertested? Would commissions be too high?

 

Is there a place where I could learn how to use OANDA side by side with MT? (don't know what MT is btw and I'm not sure if I'd want to use it)

 

What are mini lots?

 

Also, wrt whether I want to risk alot (high leverage) the answer would be no (atleast at the start). When it comes to taking risks and learning something like trading, I like to keep my tuition costs as low as possible so my plan is to develop a good system and try it out risking small amounts and keeping good records and refining my system. When I think I have a good winning system then I'll start taking more risk.

 

Thanks for all the info so far everyone.

[zdo 20]

re: “What are mini lots?” 10,000 instead of full 100,000. Most fx brokers have fixed sizes. Oanda is one of the few that doesn’t … so re “On OANDA, could I trade forex for like 1$ per trade to test out a system…?” Yes. And the commissions (actually the spread) on 1 unit (not 1$ unless 1st three letters are USD) would be miniscule.

 

You’ve been talking about whether to leverage or not, etc. As far as sizing goes in FX and Oanda, maybe set your leverage to 10:1 and then place stoplosses where no trade is risking more than 1 (-3) % of your total equity. That’s crude MM, but it will suffice until you get a better understanding of MM in general and a better feel for the risk profile of your particular system(s) There are threads all over the place about MM and risk of ruin, etc. You should also do the rounds of threads comparing poker to trading. Most emphasize the similarities, but per individual the differences can be determinant of whether trading is right for you or not. Random vs random-like. Discrete hands vs continuous data. Limited outcome vs ‘unlimited’ outcomes. etc etc. If you keep in mind that you’re really studying yourself though, not the games, clarity will come sooner...

 

re: “Where do I learn how to develop a system for the forex market?”

There are thousands(?) of FX websites and forums and thousands of available ‘systems’ for free. No, I can’t recommend any, because I”ve never looked at them… I did follow one link to babypips once… Never been in it but, Oanda has a forum too. Most ‘systems’ (free and for sale) are trash, but all of them work sometimes and learning when to do what is where it’s at. It’s totally central to my game – but that’s just me… Find you own way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Just like ‘practicing’ / playing poker, you have got to get in there and pile up screen time.

re: “Is there a place where I could learn how to use OANDA side by side with MT? (don't know what MT is btw and I'm not sure if I'd want to use it)” Hello, have you been to Oanda.com??? MT is a trading platform provided by various brokers to their customers.

 

re: “Where can I learn how to back test or paper test a system? (don't know what a papertest and I think a backtest is where you take data from the market in the past and see how a system would have worked in that market) ” Unless you really are into backtesting, (in which case I would recommend TradeStation ) how about Don’t backtest! Instead Forward test!

If you’re freakin scared then do it via sim mode. But I always tell noobs to get right up in there and learn how to lose correctly.

“Professional money is not professional money because it is never wrong........... It is professional money because it is BETTER at being wrong.”

 

But be wary - the good advice may actually be bad and the bad advice may actually be good...

hth… time to kick yourself out of the nest…

 

Have a great weekend all...

[sheaphilip 10]

Hi, I'm a young unmarried guy with no kids and I have a desire to learn how to be a profitable trader. I come from a internet poker background where I made the money I have now. I live in America and can no longer play internet poker. There are many parallels between poker and trading I've heard. They both involve a lot of psychology and math and are ways to risk money in order to make money. I figure since I was good at poker I can probably become good at trading if I put in the same amount of work towards trading as I did toward poker (which was about 4 hours every day for 2.5 years - though since I want to get my trading biz off the ground sooner than 2.5 years I would say I would study/practice at least 6 hours per day). Also, if I could be confident that I were making the right decisions with my money, I'd be willing to risk 5k toward trading. If I thought there were a high chance of losing everything I tried to invest with I would prob only want to risk 2k.

 

So I'm basically a complete newb to trading. I've read about 10% of an introductory investing textbook from 1992. I know some of the basic definitions of some trading terminology and have a rough idea of some basic principles of trading.

 

When I got good at poker I had access to affordable resources (books, free forum articles from experienced players,and training videos from a subscription site that I paid 30$ per month for), and I think I need similar resources for learning how to trade. Any thoughts on how I could get affordable (free = best!) training to learning how to trade on the stock market?

 

From the textbook I've been reading I've developed an interest in buying and selling options. The appeal for me is that you can leverage stock with smaller amounts of money than it takes to actually purchase the stock outright. Any thoughts on my current inclination toward options? Any recommendations for training?

 

Theres sooooooo many books on the stock market, any thoughts on which books would be best for someone in my position?

 

What does the learning process consist of when it comes to becoming good at trading? Like what are the "steps of the learning curve"? Can you detail any of the "aha" moments that all profitable traders went through?

 

When I learned how to play internet poker I started off at the "micro-stakes". Micro-stakes are the smallest stakes poker you can find in the world. The lowest (where I started) was only 1cent/2cent blinds.The average bet size was only 20 cents and you only had 1 or 2 dollars "on the table" (at risk IOW). This allowed players to start with say 20-40 dollars of a bankroll and build a bankroll from this small amount of money and gain valuable experience at a low "tuition" cost. As they built their bankroll they could move up to the next stake, gain more experience, battle tougher players, win larger amounts of money all at the risk of their small initial investment. Is there anything like this in the trading world so that I could get experience at a low risk?

 

Thanks for reading

thanks to sharing this nice experince of your life in this essay

[Jleon 10]

I would recommend not trading Forex and trading futures instead. Forex is a brokers game not a traders.

 

The pip/commission is a lot more than a futures round turn of 4-5.00 per trade.

There is no way to legitimately know the underlying supply and demand health since there is no regulated exchange. This is the #1 reason why I wouldnt trade Forex.

 

If you need guidance or material I offer books by Richard Wyckoff and Jessy Livermore for free on my site (Tradewithvolume) a long with many videos and a book of mine as well. If you have any questions feel free to drop a line. I just know to many people that blow up accounts a in Forex until they cant take it anymore and move on. Its better to get started off right!

 

Have a great day!