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Old 08-17-2010, 01:22 PM   #1

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Discussion About Broker Connection Types (e.g. Patsystem, TT, Zen-fire, Etc)

Hi,

I am in a transition to day trading futures (ES) and I'm in the process of choosing a futures broker. Consequently I'm interesting in learning more about connection types, specifically in regards to order execution speed. I am currently using NinjaTrader 7 and a Kinetick (DTN IQ Feed optimized for NT7) data feed.

1) What role do broker connection types play in order execution speed?
a) For example if two brokers use the same connection type, e.g. Trading Technologies (TT), will the order execution speeds be the same by default?
b) Or do other factors come into play, e.g. broker bandwidth, broker relations with the exchange, etc?

2) If I'm using an unfiltered data feed and only need a broker for order placement, then
do I need to to worry about connection type? If so, what types of things should I be
considering?

3) What are API and FIX?


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Old 08-17-2010, 04:00 PM   #2

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Re: Discussion About Broker Connection Types (e.g. Patsystem, TT, Zen-fire, Etc)

Basically, your performance will depend on the brokers IT architecture. It's a bit of a null point though because HFT's will always beat the fastest DMA solution like Ninja or TT.

Most well known software providers will have API's. TT's is quite good I hear. Pats is utter crap - more on them later...

So, TT at one broker may be slightly better than anothers.

I have no experience of Ninja, but many here like it - that cant be bad.

Now for Patsystems.

DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES TRADE ON PATSYSTEMS. This includes J-Trader, Pro-Mark, or their API. It also includes Strategy Runner & Ninja Trader IF the broker is connecting the front end (which is all Strategy Runner & NT are) to the PATS back-end.

These are some of the scenarios you WILL face if you use Pats:
- Wrong PnL
- Slow prices
- Incorrect contract naming (you trade x, get filled on y)
- Random fills
- Stops being executed at random times.
-The auto spreader is an utter joke. Slow & painful.

A friend of mine works for a hedge fund. They clear via one of PATS biggest customers who gave them PATS screens. They lost over $250,000 due to errors caused by the software. The broker refunded them and was going to sue PATS for the money before they paid up and re-reimbursed the FCM. It almost broke PATS.

I too have had loads of bad experiences with PATS. I ditched it after 2 months.

Do yourself a favour. Go with TT or Ninja. TT isn't the markey leader for nothing! I also hear good things about CQG execution.

Good luck
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Old 08-21-2010, 06:59 PM   #3

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Re: Discussion About Broker Connection Types (e.g. Patsystem, TT, Zen-fire, Etc)

Hello,
There are several types of Forex dealers with online access. They range from the perfectly legitimate brokerage firms to illegal betting houses. Each trader will have to choose their type of dealer carefully to select the right type of dealer – many share similar qualities and access to the Forex market, but their policies and procedures differ quite dramatically.

Beginning traders need to be especially vigilant about the type of dealer they select. Remember, the Forex market remains loosely regulated and this allows for a wide range of trading services that may not be suitable for many traders, particularly beginning traders.

Each type of broker represents a different level in the Forex market. Some levels are very high and have direct access to the Forex market while others are very distant and have very little connection to the Forex market. Yet most of these types of broker are legal in most countries and are used by different types of traders.

* Bucket Shops

This type of broker has virtually no connection to the real-world Forex market. Bucket shops depend largely on using currency futures and options. These types of brokers will essentially “book” or take the opposite position of a trade made by a retail trader. However, they will not actually execute them on any exchange. Basically, the bucket shop is betting against the trader. Since the legality of bucket shops is questionable, this type of broker should be avoided by beginning traders.
* Book makers

A book maker is very similar to a bucket shop. However, the book maker does not earn profits by winning the “bet”, but rather makes profits based on the spread (difference between the buy and sell price) of the trade. Like the bucket shop, this type of broker has little or no connection to the Forex market. Book makers are illegal in the United States and many other countries. Book makers are also called spread betters or spread betting companies.

thanks!!

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Old 11-10-2012, 12:09 PM   #4

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Re: Discussion About Broker Connection Types (e.g. Patsystem, TT, Zen-fire, Etc)

May I renew this thread by asking more about PATS api? Is it that bad? My company was to use them as a primary api to connect to LME select. Now I am worried.
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Old 07-21-2015, 03:15 AM   #5

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Re: Discussion About Broker Connection Types (e.g. Patsystem, TT, Zen-fire, Etc)

You may find that using Trading Technologies over it's native X-Trader
You will find the connection to both CME and Eurex is rather very fast as oppose to integration with others.

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Matt
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There is a risk of loss in futures trading. Past performance is not indicative of futures results.
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