mister ed

Hello rednite and welcome. The answer is yes, the analysis can be applied at various 'scales', including the daily chart. There is a brief analysis of a stock on a daily time-frame at this thread, for example.

Thanks Db - let's give this a try. Any questions/comments re Db to his blog please, any that appear in this thread I will try to move across.

It seems there was a consensus reached a few pages back to refocus this thread on VSA/Wyckoff analysis but yet again the thread has diverted. This, I suppose, is inevitable; as the thread attracts more and more readers and participants the potential for going off on tangents increases, which is fine except the tangents have recently exceeded the content directly and specifically addresing VSA/Wyckoff. This is evidently frustrating for those interested in VSA and Wyckoff, especially given the thread's title and intent! A lot of the tangents seem to be generated from questions to Db, which he, quite rightly, helpfully responds to. So, Db, I suggest you start a thread along the lines of "Q&A with DbPhoenix", or something like that, so that questions not directly and specifically related to Wyckoff/VSA, that may perhaps be more related to your blog and its contents, can be answered and discussed, and this thread freed up for direct and specific discussion of Wyckoff/VSA by those interested. If you prefer I can start this new thread. I woud therefore request that questions for Db be directed to him at this new thread, while discussions of Wyckoff and VSA can proceed here.

Hello Nick and welcome. I don't know how much this is going to help...you are in Dallas and finish work at 4pm, so the after work option is going to be Asian markets (Tokyo open is about 4 hours or so after you finish work, I will leave you figure out the exact times) or the night sessions of the US and Europe markets. The FX markets are of course 24 hours, but even so the 4 to 5 hours after 4pm in Dallas are, generally, the lowest volume time of the 24 hours period. The before-work option will give you more choice of larger, deeper markets, starting 4-5 or so hours earlier you would see the opening of the European markets and the opening of the European session of FX. As to how beginner friendly these are ... well ... trading physical stocks would be classified as a bit more beginner friendly than say the DAX futures. I am sure others more familiar with these markets will have better views.

Sledge - great info, can I strongly second something you said We are getting more and more strong VSA / Wyckoff practitioners on this thread and I am learning and consolidating heaps.

What a great post smwinc ... it challenged my thinking ... I reckon it deserves a thread of its own. Thanks very much.

Great stuff Eiger - thank-you. While this thread is about VSA, and Wyckoff, and for those interested in it, I particularly like your point about:

Search and browse through these forums here on TL, and take a shortcut if you like on this thread, the Best of TL.

Your Last Chance - International VSA Thread If you only read one Educational Thread in 2008, get on your ass and read more! When putting our thread together we went out and asked you what you wanted to hear because we are determined that this thread will answer your questions (well, eventually, maybe) and provide real-world practical trading solutions (again, maybe). Here are some of the answers (and questions) we got back: I'd like to see presentations which keep looking at the right edge of the chart. How do you tell when the weakness changes to strength? after a period of accumulation and a successful Breakout - when you get a long sideways area, making it a rest area rather than distribution? I swing and position trade futures, I want to learn when to anticipate directional moves in these markets and when there is no current evidence of a significant directional move in play. I want to learn to see the market’s big picture. WTF are you all talking about? I want to see some guidelines as to how to get into a day trade, and how to get into a swing trade. Let's discuss money management. I'd also like to know about clues as to keeping winners overnight. I would very much like to see a concrete system of trading using VSA that has well defined rules of entry, trade management and finally exit. (hey, wouldn’t we all?) There has been enough theory so far, what we need is some real practical training on the application of these principles in real-time market conditions. It would be great to show some real-time trades during that weeks prior to the sessions, outlining thought processes, logical stops, targets, trade management etc. Who let the dogs out? It is easy to talk about capitulation, buying climax in hindsight but how do we trade capitulation? Same goes for absorption volume? I would like to see you cover Entry techniques based on Strength or Weakness in the background, price target methods and stop loss methods. A money management system explained. What are the signs of sector rotation? I would like to have more done on drilling down to the best stocks (what are they?) to trade and the best opportunities to wait for from an ever-updated short watchlist. Also from everything I have gleaned, I am more interested in trading the short side successfully. Where’s Wally? Once in a trade how do we know if a move against the trend is a minor reaction? How do we stay in a winning trade without being shaken out? What else can we use to confirm VSA analysis - ie. fibonacci, Elliot Wave, tea leaves, chicken entrails, etc. and examples (please provide your own cup of tea and/or chicken). How do we package it all together into a trading plan? We need to know when to stay with the trend, and how to read it across several timeframes. - how can I tell a false breakout from a genuine one? Is it advisable to wait for a test of the breakout level before entering a position? Or how can I tell if it will keep on going and not test the breakout? Did you turn the stove off? I want the information necessary to develop a trading plan. What does a buy signal look like? What does a short signal look like? What is the trigger? What is my stop if I'm wrong? For the One and Only Time, until you read it again, Your Chance to Hear Answers from the Masters (legends in their own lunchtime). Live on your screen! Also, thread printing options for those who cannot physically get to a computer!!! Fax it to your colleagues today! Yes, it’s the VSA thread (II) – click today! For those who can't make it, we also have available the one-and-only original VSA thread! But wait, there's more! For those who think VSA is a crock, we have MP, Candlesticks, FX, the list goes on!

If by 'this' you mean Wyckoff analysis then yes.

Zeon, saying that is being incredibly hard on yourself. By all means strive to improve your chart reading and therefore entry decision, but you know that not every trade is going to work out profitably. It is about risk management, strive even harder to get that right and you will be fine.

Bingo! ....................

Yes, yes, yes! We are getting somewhere here. Ya gotta remember those different scales Db - not everyone is going to have the same 'target' as you. Not every chart is going to be useful for the same thing. By all means use the 1 minute (or whatever) to help with entry for 'your' target, but recognise that a small interval is extremely useful for a small target for someone else's trade. In the end, reading price action is just one component of trading. Many novices miss this point. Yes its an important component of trading, but where the rubber hits the road its about risk management and to expect a 'pattern' on the 1 minute to give the same result as a 'pattern' on a larger scale is going to end in disappointment much of the time. Thank-goodness this is a pre-Fed announcement morning, allowing us the luxury of some navel-gazing! Over to you for the last word!

Agreed, no requirement for that at all. And one would do well to be aware that these small S & R forming will not necessarily translate into the grand poobah of trades .... different scales, different 'targets' (for want of a better word).

A common misunderstanding is that there is a 'one-size-fits-all' approach to support and resistance. S&R is present at different scales to diferent degrees, and there are traders trading at these different scales. If one cannot read the signals at these different scales, thats fine, stick to the 10-point or so fixed 'zones' of S & R, but for those more attuned to the dynamic nature of S&R, and who can trade dynamically, recogntion of the different scales within which the market trades is important. It is easy to get fixated on one scale and assume that is the only scale of relevance. It is a subtle distinction, though, not everyone gets it.

Really valuable point thanks Eiger, fully agree. If I can elaborate a little as some reading this thread, especially less experienced traders, may not fully appreciate your point and be left with an incorrect understanding. If I am wrong in my interpretation of your point, apologies. A bar on a 1-minute chart will have, on average, a much smaller range than a bar on a 5-minute chart, the 1-minute bar will also have, on average, much less volume than the volume on a 5-minute bar. Sorry to state the glaringly obvious, but... So, a set-up on a 1-minute bar chart that may, on appearance, look like the same set-up on a 5-minute chart, will have a much smaller expected price move from that set-up. Moves occur on different scales, again, sorry for stating the glaringly obvious. A trader looking for say a 5 point move off a set-up on a 5-minute bar may well be disappointed with perhaps only a 5 tic move from what appears to be the same looking set-up on a 1-minute bar chart. This is the sense in which I understand your important point that the set-up evaporates…very significant, thanks.

I really appreciated hlm's post (#27) - and like he said, he has plenty of other things to be doing on the weekend. Re precision definitions - if you hover your mouse over " value area " you will see a brief definition, more detailed definitions can be found on the TL site (I believe Soultrader has a sticky thread devoted to definitions etc. re MP - edit: there are two, this one, and this one). Mind Over Markets (the book) is also good for this. Re "definite starting and stopping point", hlm is referring to the open and close times of RTH (see his post as to why). Interesting questions you raise AK -

Congratulations Blu-Ray!

Yes, a big difference in liquidity between the March and June, the March a lot higher still - thanks Soultrader.

LOL James! Not pills, just lemons and apples, and some bananas (hope those don't make Walter hungry....)

Reminder, rollover day is the 2nd Thursday of expiry month for CME contracts, so Thursday 13 MAR 2008 is the day. For more info see this thread.http://www.traderslaboratory.com/forums/f3/roll-over-days-304.html

Good idea Eiger, One difference I noted was the price move down to the first low of the springs (i.e. the price low to the left of each blue box) is further in the 2nd example than the first. I have noticed on my chart I have blanked out the prices :crap:, I don't know how I did that (just talent I guess) ... but makes it a bit difficult sorry. Anyway, on the first example I see the price fall about 8 points, in the second example price fell around 10 points From the high between the 2 lows of the spring the price fell about 6 points in the first example, 7.5 odd in the second. From a volume perspective, the difference in the volume activity at the two lows of each spring is greater in the second example than the first - more noticeable reduction in volume in the 2nd leg down of the 2nd example. Also, the volume on the bar off the 2nd low of each example is quite diffierent - in the first example the volume on the bar following the low is about average, while in the 2nd example the volume for the bar off the second low is huge - urgency here.

Outstanding post thanks Eiger ... For ease of matching your post up with the chart I have attached a 5-minute chart here with the two times of springs marked with boxes. To convert the times on the horizontal axis to EDST, add 9.

Another good starting point is this thread by MrPaul. Might save you some time (or might not, there's pleanty there).

Hi Apsil, would be interested in your analysis on KRY?