[zdo]

Since the forum structure allows multiple posts in reviews, I’ll piece this together across several posts – first entry follows… more in subsequent posts… hey, I never was very swooft at book reports and still haven’t figured out how to actually write a review ....

As if I was somehow above the freakin fray , when reading this book the first time my intention was to assess its value for new and struggling traders for correctness and completeness. Big mistake! More about that mistake in later posts. Anyways, I persisted with first goal and this bunch of (ultimately inane?) questions piled up:

> Will readers conclude from their first reading of the book that the author has extensive experience and a deep understanding of trading?

> Did the author use all new ‘stuff’ to put this protocol together?

> People come in many fuzzy types, gradients, and capacities. Will this protocol be useful to all ‘types’ across the board?

> Did the author contain the usage of the concept / phrase ‘cognitive dissonance’ within its typical meanings?

> Was the listing of nine trading fears complete?

> The (Ericsonian) developmental categories utilized - are they sufficiently inclusive of all the necessary developmental stages to consider in this context?

> Did the author address all the ‘energy’ levels and dynamics in play for elevated performance trading?

> Will a high percentage of readers have the ‘maturity’ to readily relate to and do serious work at the level of Jungian archetypes? Via DIY voice dialogue in an inner archetypal counsel?

> Was adequate consideration given in the book to the feminine and the feminine archetypes in trading? …and to the ’non human and animal’ archetypes?

> Backing up a little bit from the whole business of voice dialogue, and generally questioning ‘speech’s importance in changing pattern – is cognitive labeling / naming of emotions really crucial to / pivotal in effective inner work?

> In this work, did the author explain and discuss all the parts of his model and protocol for trader improvement and development?

> Will this protocol bring you to oneness and true spiritual joy?

At this point in time, I personally answer either “don’t know yet” or “no” or “maybe” to all of the questions above.

But to these questions below, I answer “yes! yes! yes! categorically! yes!”

> For trading ‘psychology’ work, is this book ‘state of the art’?

> Had I known how good this book is, would I have initially read it to apply to my own life? Will I be starting over on page 1?

> Do I recommend the book to every TL member? Even to the ones who don’t have any ‘psychological’ issues and are totally satisfied with their trading?

[zdo]

For sourcing the book -
Mindful Trading: Mastering Your Emotions and the Inner Game

Author: Rande Howell

[Kiwi]

Interesting zdo.

My review of the book is not nearly as positive.

1. At the start and repeatedly throughout the book Rande is selling the reader on his other material and on personal sessions. He even goes as far as saying that if you think you can fix yourself reading the book you are deluding yourself (not the exact words). It is far far worse than Van Tharp's fixation on selling the next course and starts off suggesting the book will answer the issue (later) but keeps putting off later and pushing it toward the great but much much more expensive course.

2. I don't want to be overly unkind but ... well it is clearly self-published.

3. The Jungian stuff is interesting ... and if one is really attracted to the Archetype approach then it says a lot about the reader. If one gets really involved then its like the people who see the Parent/Child/Adult from the I'm Ok era ... but it is old and somewhat discredited as psychology.

4. The whole committee of self is really questionable.

So, I read it and even converted it to epub and then mobi so I could read it on my new kindle. But if you're hoping for solutions to issues in trading then you'd be better of starting with Mark Douglas for descriptions of the sources of fears; and Ari Kiev for approaches to dealing with them and perhaps Steenbarger. Much better off.

I don't regret buying the book for a bit of a read but I surely wouldn't buy the approach at all.


But understand that everything Rande is doing is in the form of "little bits of free stuff" to upsell you to the expensive and continuing stuff. And the book is in that form.

[zdo]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

starting with Mark Douglas for descriptions of the sources of fears; and Kiev for approaches to dealing with them and perhaps Steenbarger ...
I don't regret buying the book for a bit of a read but I surely wouldn't buy the approach at all...

One of my questions went to this too - "People come in many fuzzy types, gradients, and capacities. Will this protocol be useful to all ‘types’ across the board?". We're getting a little bit into which types of 'briggsy myerslies' [roughly] resonate with this and which with Kiev or Douglas or Steenbargar, etc. etc. I guess I'm encouraging a little bit more 'resistance to closure' for all 'types' - especially for beginning traders... kicking in some awareness that in ideal individuation a person is 'going to' his or her recessive type... etc

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

1. At the start and repeatedly throughout the book Rande is selling the reader on his other material and on personal sessions. He even goes as far as saying that if you think you can fix yourself reading the book you are deluding yourself (not the exact words). It is far far worse than Van Tharp's fixation on selling the next course and starts off suggesting the book will answer the issue (later) but keeps putting off later and pushing it toward the great but much much more expensive course. ...
I don't regret buying the book for a bit of a read but I surely wouldn't buy the approach at all...
But understand that everything Rande is doing is in the form of "little bits of free stuff" to upsell you to the expensive and continuing stuff. And the book is in that form.

Thanks. Prior to getting the book I had skimmed some of Rande Howell’s articles and posts, and had generally accepted that much of his content was promotional material for his big ticket items. In the book he also stops short in several spots from explaining important processes and refers the reader to one of his ‘guided’ products. Although this is a much deeper ‘trading psychology’ book than any of Mark Douglas’s publications, Douglas has set the standard collectively and I personally have never had the impression in any of his work that Mark was withholding and baiting for a bigger ticket purchase.

Regarding what parts should be ‘guided’ and what parts are not, in the ideal every step of a person’s development would be ‘guided’ and supported; but paradoxically, all development is ultimately DIY. Therefore, all ‘psychological’ methods can be disclosed. The onus is on the ‘consumer’ to apply them. Also, for many individuals, some parts of the book where no ‘guidance’ is available are precisely the places where they need the most ‘coaching’. My point is I think he could have included the same excellent and full description of all parts of his program that he did for most parts. If a reader is wise enough to understand any of it, a reader is wise enough to understand all of it. Beware the ‘beyond the scope” phrase. Nothing relevant is ever really ‘beyond the scope’.

I think he needs to pull the book until he completes a revision to add ~ 120 pages that 1. Completes the discussion of all the ‘archetypal’ work started, even if he has to just reference and regurge others' material. and 2 fully discloses all his procedures. A revision to completeness would imo really up the chances of the book going blockbuster in the trading community and that would incite far more requests for his coaching programs and products than do ‘baiting’ techniques. ie Mark Douglas does not have to solicit for his ‘big ticket’ annual seminars…

This does not detract in the slightest from my wholehearted recommendation of the book. Tension resolution has different outcomes than does tension ‘management’, ‘avoidance’, etc. Particularly, new traders need to take advantage of the opportunity early on to establish patterns of tension resolution instead of developing and entrenching hard to break 'brain-habits' of tension avoidance. This book plants the seeds for acknowledging that in one’s real time experiences and offers the framework for a highly efficient, but not necessarily easy, protocol, for developing adaptive trading patterns.

[Kiwi]

Yes, I agree on the tension resolution ... but this is (as you said) simple stuff that should be included in the book. It isn't the mysterious magic that Rande keeps implying.

I'm not so sure about the value of archetypes and the hubble bubble that comes from it.

Rande actually seems a little confused and it becomes apparent that his doctorate isn't in science, medicine, or psychotherapy. In this post he seems to put forward his reasons for doing what he does but he's mixing things up pretty magically http://www.traderslaboratory.com/for...072#post111072

I'd go through it with a thorough attack but I don't have time today. Maybe later.

The funny thing is that I suspect that Rande's approach can enable a trader to overcome their issues (if they are the right type to resonate with him) but that doesn't make his approach "true" or "right." It just makes it effective in particular cases.


PS. Glad to see the moderator has finally started deleting his URLs. He really is trolling for business.

[n00btrader]

Originally Posted by Kiwi »

The funny thing is that I suspect that Rande's approach can enable a trader to overcome their issues (if they are the right type to resonate with him) but that doesn't make his approach "true" or "right." It just makes it effective in particular cases.

If it does work, what's wrong with it? What would you suggest instead?

[steve46]

Hello

In answer to the question "what works" I can respond affirmatively....I can explain in simple terms and in a way that is personal to you (Noob) if you can aswer a few simple questions.

1. Do you have any experience, or have you ever had contact with.....a person who is very good at what they do (sports, business, science, any endeavor). I mean "world class good"... among the the very best....?

2. Have you ever set a goal for yourself, and been prepared to give up everything else to get there?

3. What is your most significant achievement to date?

Thats it....you see you have asked a very important question, and I am sure you ask it relatively casually, not knowing that it is the basis for your success in life. To get an answer that actually means something to you....can YOU answer these questions in thoughtful and honest way?