[jonbig04]

Originally Posted by atto »

That's a great start, because it shows you're actually thinking about it (better than most). I highly recommend you read The Phantom of the Pits. Don't let the price (free) fool you, you'd have a hard time beating the wisdom for any less . This may help you with position managment, helping you take an idea and make it as profitable as possible.

Push yourself to quantify your entries/exits. You will struggle when you add real money to the equation if you don't have something exact to fall back on.

I will be all over that tonight as well. I love the internet...so much free information. My exits right now are a problem, so I will work hard on defining a more exact exit strategy. Supply and Demand is all I think about these days.

As for real money...I'm trying to not think about it. I try not to let money enter at all into my brain. It's difficult. I just try to think of points...like I'm Kobe and I'm trying to score as many points as I can before the end of the game (or trading day). I believe its starting to work. I get frustrated when I lose points sure, but I don't get fearful or greedy (I try not to).

I am new to trading, but I am not new to teaching myself (with the help of others on the internet) a skill that few have. When I was 18 I started a mortgage company and had a ball funding loans, later on I incorporated a real estate development company; so I am not new to the dedication that trading demands. The only different aspect is mental. I can't really do something part way, its 100% or nothing (which has its good and bad), so right now I am thinking about trading or something to do with trading pretty much 24/7...the difference is I have placed kind of a mental filter in my brain. Every thought has to be screened to make sure its not borne out of fear (" I could lose $10,000 in one day) or greed ( I can make $10,000 in one day!). Hopefully it pays off. I mean works out...haha

[jonbig04]

4th day of trading=1st losing day. Damnit.

The reasons I lost today are many, but the awesome thing about trading is that its only yourself that you have to change.

1.Trading too much. Instead of waiting patiently for the optimum entry points, I pushed it. I wanted to make something out of every move. It was greed in a form i wasn't prepared to deal with. Its covered now though.

2. My stops. My trailing stop was too close. Looking back i was in early on some large (8-10 point) moves, however i was only able to capture 1.5-2 of those points. I can't have it all, but I should be locking in more profits then that when I am right,

3. Revenge trading. Internally I was trading with one thing on my mind: making back my losses. I need to make every trade completely independent of the last, regardless of its outcome.


I am going to set a limit on how many trades I can do per day. I'm not sure what it is yet, but I will think on it. My stops will also be adjusted. Tomorrow is a new day, however I sure didn't like ending the day with a loss...sucked.

today's result: -6 points

[atto]

From a few of your posts, it seems like you are trading to be right: catch the most of a move (and every move), have only winning days, have only winning trades, etc. Not saying you expect these, but that your ultimate goal is those things. To be bluntly honest (which I assume you want), this is the mark of a newbie. While that sounds good, there are no trading awards for being right.

Instead, your job is to optimize your P/L. You may say that the above is simply a means to this result, but I don't see the correlation as directly. Making profits is your only goal. Re-read the last sentence. It doesn't ultimately matter if you miss a move, if you get out too soon, if you have losing days, if you take a bunch of losing trades, etc. In the end, all that matters is your P/L. Be willing to be wrong; let the market tell you what's right. While you need to look at the above issues, you need to purely focus on P/L.

I personally struggled (and still do at times) with missing moves. I see a perfect hindsight setup, missed it (for whatever reason), and create excuses to get in ASAP. The underlying cause is the same that drives you to overtrade and chase losses. You have to learn to let those go, and wait patiently for the next entry signal. Some periods/days are good, some aren't.

In line with the Phantom of the Pits, I challenge you to avoid hitting your full stop loss. If the market is not proving you correct, get out. You'll miss a few eventual winners, but will avoid many more full losers. I'm not a scalper, but I think you should re-evaluate what types of moves you are targeting. Commissions will eat you alive as is, even if you have a moderately profitable day. I count 24 trades, which will likely be over $100 in comissions per contract (5 NQ pts), which almost doubled your losses for the day.

[jonbig04]

Originally Posted by atto »

From a few of your posts, it seems like you are trading to be right: catch the most of a move (and every move), have only winning days, have only winning trades, etc. Not saying you expect these, but that your ultimate goal is those things. To be bluntly honest (which I assume you want), this is the mark of a newbie. While that sounds good, there are no trading awards for being right.

Instead, your job is to optimize your P/L. You may say that the above is simply a means to this result, but I don't see the correlation as directly. Making profits is your only goal. Re-read the last sentence. It doesn't ultimately matter if you miss a move, if you get out too soon, if you have losing days, if you take a bunch of losing trades, etc. In the end, all that matters is your P/L. Be willing to be wrong; let the market tell you what's right. While you need to look at the above issues, you need to purely focus on P/L.

I personally struggled (and still do at times) with missing moves. I see a perfect hindsight setup, missed it (for whatever reason), and create excuses to get in ASAP. The underlying cause is the same that drives you to overtrade and chase losses. You have to learn to let those go, and wait patiently for the next entry signal. Some periods/days are good, some aren't.

In line with the Phantom of the Pits, I challenge you to avoid hitting your full stop loss. If the market is not proving you correct, get out. You'll miss a few eventual winners, but will avoid many more full losers. I'm not a scalper, but I think you should re-evaluate what types of moves you are targeting. Commissions will eat you alive as is, even if you have a moderately profitable day. I count 24 trades, which will likely be over $100 in comissions per contract (5 NQ pts), which almost doubled your losses for the day.

In reading your post I could only keep nodding my head in agreement. Many times today during a trade, I would see something happen that I didn't expect (like 3,000 contracts in a matter of seconds) and while I knew I should just get out, I waited. Sometimes I came back from being 1.5pts down to being .5 points up, so I counted it a success, but the if i had simply cut my losses at 1.5 every time instead of hitting my full stop today's P/L would be VERY different, maybe even positive. What's strange is yesterday I was cutting my losses...but not today. I can't think why. It will be corrected and contained tomorrow though.

Hindsight is always 20/20, but the funny thing about trading is that hindsight is sometimes only 15-30 seconds ago, so I somehow think I can, like you said, salvage the trade or more of the time, make excuses to get in. This and not letting the market tell me my losses are the 2 reasons I lost today. Over trading, I think, stems from these 2 things.

Thanks again for your advice. I need it.

[brownsfan019]

I have a few observations... take it for what it's worth.

1) Holy cow you are trading... Wow. Your broker must love you.

2) Until you realize that you cannot and will not catch every single move or every single day, you'll always be chasing this dream.

#1 - if I am reading the chart correctly, that is a ton of trading going on for a new person. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm sure you realize that commission costs will eat away at profits at that pace.

#2 - It took me awhile to come to peace w/ the FACT that there is no possible way that you can be in every single move of every single day. I too wanted to be in when the big move came. Problem was that you have to take trades left and right to be there.

My suggestion at this point would be to start crafting more precise entries, unless being a scalper is what you are setting out to do.

[jonbig04]

Originally Posted by brownsfan019 »

I have a few observations... take it for what it's worth.

1) Holy cow you are trading... Wow. Your broker must love you.

2) Until you realize that you cannot and will not catch every single move or every single day, you'll always be chasing this dream.

#1 - if I am reading the chart correctly, that is a ton of trading going on for a new person. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but I'm sure you realize that commission costs will eat away at profits at that pace.

#2 - It took me awhile to come to peace w/ the FACT that there is no possible way that you can be in every single move of every single day. I too wanted to be in when the big move came. Problem was that you have to take trades left and right to be there.

My suggestion at this point would be to start crafting more precise entries, unless being a scalper is what you are setting out to do.

Thankfully no one is getting rich off me yet (this is all fake money), but I wont be taking anywhere near that many trades from now on.

[james_gsx]

What?

Another 20 year old from Denver?

Do I have a clone? What part of Denver and why haven't I met you?

Just some quick advice I picked up from scanning through this thread. Maybe instead of trying to trade, and inadvertently over trading, just sit and watch the market all day without doing anything. Just watch the order flows, the way the market moves. You will pick up a lot more information, and from there you will be able to find specific trends that suit your personality. After a sizable amount of observation, you will be able to piece together a basic trading plan that works for you. It will be much easier to trade, because you will know exactly what you're looking for. When you simply jump in making 20 trades a day, you close a lot of doors and miss a lot of opportunities that come in the form of information. Just my .02 cents.

[jonbig04]

Originally Posted by james_gsx »

What?

Another 20 year old from Denver?

Do I have a clone? What part of Denver and why haven't I met you?

Just some quick advice I picked up from scanning through this thread. Maybe instead of trying to trade, and inadvertently over trading, just sit and watch the market all day without doing anything. Just watch the order flows, the way the market moves. You will pick up a lot more information, and from there you will be able to find specific trends that suit your personality. After a sizable amount of observation, you will be able to piece together a basic trading plan that works for you. It will be much easier to trade, because you will know exactly what you're looking for. When you simply jump in making 20 trades a day, you close a lot of doors and miss a lot of opportunities that come in the form of information. Just my .02 cents.

My clone? I'm not sure. Great now I'm afraid I'm going to find out we're clones and part of some clandestine government project from the 80's...would be alright if i found out we were born with all these special abilities and hand to hand combat skills that we've yet to discover.

I just moved to Denver 10 days ago, I'm not sure if you're familiar with downtown at all (its the only part I am even remotely familiar with), but I live on 16th and Glenarm...it seems pretty like a pretty chill place so far.

Thanks for the advice. I was going to do just that when suddenly...I started trading haha. I guess because my last 3 days were decent up days I got over confident. Think I just lucked out those days.