Rocky Mtn Trader

I've read something online about using a Roth IRA for a trading account? Can anyone help? . .

This may not be the proper place to ask this question, but here it goes... Is there any way to set up a trading account, receive money through the account and not get taxed so heavily? I know the IRS wants their share, but come on. If anyone knows of a way and doesn't want to post a reply...please private message me. I would appreciate it. Thanks. . .

Going back to the golf analogy. Yes, Tiger does have a coach. The top golf coaches are extremely good golfers....in fact, they are as good as most pro golfers. The difference is this....Some of the top teaches/coaches...ie, Butch Harmon and Hank Haney are missing one thing that kept them from competing on the pro circuit. They don't have the mental toughness. I don't know if any of you are golfers, but mental toughness is what makes good golfers...great golfers. Trying to make a 6 foot putt when you are under a tremendous amount of pressure is not easy for a weak minded person. In other words...these coaches can't handle the pressure...therefore, they have found that they are very good teachers of the game. Trading is similar. For example..... You can take a very experienced Trader. This trader is successful, has a good trading plan, executes good trades, etc. This Trader can take 10 newbie traders and show them all EXACTLY what he knows...every trick....every secret. The outcome or success of each of these 10 traders would be different. Each one of these 10 people would develop their own style and technique. What it all boils down to is MENTAL toughness. Successful traders are mentally tough. They have learned how to control there emotions to make rational decisions. They have learned to recognize. I agree with what james gsx said. The best coach/mentor/teacher is one that shows the student what is needed, then watches the student perform or react to the instructions given. Each one of these students will have a different reaction to the same instructions. A good teacher will watch over the shoulder and help the student become mentally aware or tough. Good thread Brownsfan. If I become a very good trader and the question is posed to me about teaching someone...I would do it. Not for the money though...but for the satisfaction of passing along what I've learned to help someone else. A lot of people have helped me along the way...I don't have a problem with showing others what I've learned. I also am not threatened to show someone my setups. I guarantee that no one has a unique setup in this day and age. I've had people show me their setups, and after sim trading their methods, I have always found a way to change things that work better for me. Mentoring a student will result in the same. You will show them your setups and after they know what the h*** is going on....they will tweak your setups to better suit their mental toughness and their personality. RMT . .

hi walter, do you know if this twiggs money flow indicator has been produced for Ninja Trader? Thanks, RMT . .

Is it just me, or do other traders sometimes make a trade...put in their profit target and stops...watch the trade for a couple of minutes...then get up and walk away and let the trade play out? starring at the screen during a trade is very stressful to me. I'm getting better at picking more probable trades and just letting them play out. How do other traders in here handle this? Do you guys and gals all stare at the screen at day, or do you have confidence to get up, pour a cup of coffee, read the front page of the newspaper, and come back in a few minutes? Here is another thing I've been working on. When I get into a trade, I expect it to go in my direction...afterall, that's why I got into the trade. All of a sudden the trade totally flatlines for what seems like forever. My latest technique is to just get out...usually its for BE or +/- 2 ticks. I have looked back on those flatline trades and its a 50/50 proposition on which way its heading. When I stay in...it goes against me. When I get out...it goes in my favor. By getting out...I figure at least I didn't take a full stop loss and there will be other trades. . RMT

Hi Walter, I have another question? What is your winning percentage? It seems that it would be very high? Thanks again. . RMT

Hi Walter, I've really enjoyed your post...very informative. I need to take some time to set up some charts and test your method. I do have some questions? If you answered these earlier...my apologies...please bare with me. You mentioned that you usually target 5 ticks. Sometimes more...sometimes less? What is your daily goal for the number of ticks you want to achieve in a day? How many contracts do you normally trade? It seems that with this small number of ticks, your broker is making a good living off you every day? Am I missing something here? Looking at your setups and your chart examples...it seems clear that you had many, many opportunities to let your trade run into rather large winners? Thank you again for the time you put into this post...and thank you to all the other members that contributed to this post...it was awesome. . RMT

thank you for all these responses. Hopefully this thread is a good education on how the different markets move, and what causes them to move. In response to the last few posts....If IBM had some news that cause that stock to spike dramatically...either up or down....wouldn't that have more affect on the YM moving than more traders buying more contracts in the YM market?? Look at how closely the YM and ES move in unison of each other. Yet the ES trades 2.5 million contracts a day, while the YM only trades 600k contracts a day. Don't these underlying stocks have more effect on the ES and YM than traders trading these markets have? (I think we are clear that the underlying stocks are not the only thing moving these markets). I put this thread in the Market Profile section because I know that MP is heavily based on the Profile of the market in relation to price, time, and volume. I know that the ES, ER, and YM are traded by many different type traders from daytraders, floor traders, large institutions, etc... A question? Can large institutions, or "others type traders" have an influence on the ES, ER, or YM?...meaning...can they manipulate or become "market movers?" I know they can with the underlying stocks? Do I need to know this to trade these markets?...no, I don't. Just trying the better understand the total madness. .

Soultrader.... Have you heard of, or know anyone who trades the T-note? . At $100 per tick...you need bid b**** to play that game...lol .

soultrader.... Do you happen to know if the Japanese Governement Bonds trade similar to the 10 year T-note? I've been trying to follow the T-note and it seems to agree with the MP. Any help from anyone out there would be appreciated. .

I am currently studying MP...and have read the CBOT MP manual and Mind over Markets. I understand how and why MP works. Besides the standard futures markets...ES, YM, and ER, does anyone trade with MP in other markets?? I think MP is a worthy asset and I am trying to impliment this into my trading. Although, I'm not convinced that the ES, YM, or ER is the best fit for MP? Trading with MP in a more direct market, ie., soybeans, gold, etc.. seem to be more geared toward the whole auction process? A person can make money in any market. For example, a 5 point movement in the ES equals a 50 point movement in the YM. 5 points in the ES is worth $250. 50 points in the YM is worth $250. It's all relavent. Trading soybeans, gold, coffee, t-bills, or whatever, would also be relavent. Im just trying to get some feedback on different ideas using MP. .

I understand your point MC. Im not debating the things you said in your last post...they are true statements. My intentions were to show how the futures markets work, why they work, and why they move. I was hoping some of you experienced traders would help me with this thread without debating things. The information provided in this post was to shed a little light on the subject. There is a lot of head scratching sometimes by traders wondering why things are happening. I have done the same. I did some research and talked to many traders to get these exact answers. It did help me better understand the whole picture. I was hoping to help others who might of asked these same questions in their own minds. Whats the point in posting threads on this Forum?

"Its seemingly been a ploy to delve into certain intricacies of the markets" MC...isn't that what this Forum is for...to help people see the whole picture? Trading futures at time and price is not determining perceived value. That value is being determined for you in the underlying stocks. You are merely trading a price movement. A futures market is a barometer for what the underlying stocks are doing. Surely you knew this MC ? .

I have also learned something about the way the ES an YM move in price levels. It is not totally predictable (or I would be rich), but it has help me get out of trades and take a profit before giving it back. It has also helped me stay in a trade longer and get more ticks. This is an easy concept that all traders should be aware of. I'm sure most of you experts out there already know this. My trader IQ is only 10%...lol. It is also fascinating how close the ES and YM move together. There was an earlier post on this thread that told the odds of this...it was something like 95% of the time. There is a lot of information one could obtain from watching these markets move together. Sometimes one will give you a hint slightly before the other. I very much appreciate all the responses to this thread. I hoped this has helped many of you with a different perspective on the market. .

Soultrader... You absolutely hit it on the head...thank you! ! ! You are trading the price movements of the futures...and do not pay attention to the stocks...my point exactly. The institutional big guy trade the stocks...YES...and they are the ones who can, will, or do manipulate these stocks. I think we can put some closure on this whole thread. MP theory has merit and is very helpful while trading futures...although, it is much more useful in its original intent when used in a market where you have "floor traders" determining value during the IB period, and "other market makers" trying to control the value. If indeed the YM (used as an example only) was traded by this process, MP would be much more valuable for trading futures. I totally understand the VSA concept. I'm not so sure it has as much merit when trading futures. All the volume indicates is that "we" are buying or selling at that price at that time. Trading futures is a large portion of what people on the TL trade. Getting your piece of the pie anyway you can with whatever means works for you is the "game" we are all playing. When you try to sell the tops and buy the bottoms using S/R levels...although this does work quite often, it became very frustrating when approaching a S/R level. It was anyone's guess if the price was going to hold, or break through. Volume does not work with this...you can try and convince me til you are blue in the face. There are high volume breakouts and holds and low volume breakouts and holds. Flip a coin. I have found it to be more probable to...as Soultrader puts it..."take short term price swings" based on the momentum of the market. No you wont get the most points or ticks, but you can take a piece out of the middle. I wish there were more threads on here about how traders are taking these short term price swings? I know it would help a lot a people become better traders. There are some very basic, easy to learn setups that have a very high probability. Why don't more people share these ideas? .

Hey MC... I don't think the volume on the YM has anything to do with the volume on the 30 stocks in the DJI? Those 30 stocks move independantly on their own. The combination of these 30 stocks moving on their own make up the Dow index? One would conclude that if the 30 stocks in the Dow did not move, neither would the Dow. The value of the Dow would not be zero, because these 30 stocks already have a value. If for some unknown reason, those 30 stocks had no volume and did not move one day, the YM would be a flat line all day...Doesn't a flat line mean something is "dead"? Why would anyone trade the YM at that point in time? We would all be in trouble ! ! The YM has nothing to do with the 30 individual stocks. The YM is a measure of how these 30 stocks move together in a unit. So if no one traded the YM one day, the 30 stocks are still going to move (with their own volumes), which in turn would cause the YM to move. Traders trading the YM are merely trading price at time. No one is moving or manipulating the YM...its path is already predetermined (speaking in general terms of course).

I dont think we need to seperate anything. The YM and the ES move almost identically with some minor variations. These variations are obviously in the different stocks that make up these indexes. Notice that the ES trades 2.5 million contracts per day, while the YM trades only 250k contracts per day. Yet they both move up the same and down "proportionatly" the same. Ie., the YM moves 50 points when the ES moves 5 points. This is a very general term. The sheer volume of the ES would cause it to move differently if the "trading volume" had anything to do with its movements.

Back to what I stated earlier....if no one traded the YM, it is still going to move the way it would have if people were trading it. Am I correct in this statement MC ??

I am not saying these things to offend anyone. I'm just making a point how people seem to think that the ES, ER, the YM reference volume the same as the stocks that make up the index and cause it to move in the first place.

I agree with what you said...the markets are all innertwinded. News in one sector effects the emotions of traders in another sector...hence moving that individual stock...hence effecting the movement of the index. But it's these individual stocks in an index that makes the price of that index move up and down. If you are trading the YM for instance, the "volume" in trading the YM is not moving the market. The YM is generating its volume from people trading different price levels at time, while the index is moving as a whole. The "other timeframe" traders are not moving the YM. The "other timeframe" traders are moving the individual stocks in the YM. Yes...the pros are good at determining price at levels. Yes...you do not need to know this when trading the YM. You can still trade and make profits. I guess my point is that there is so much talk on this forum about volume at price on the ES, YM and ER. People who are trading these cash indexes are referencing volume as though they are trading individual stocks when volume actually has an impact at different price levels. I am not talking about being able to trade these indexes and make money doing it.

An index is moving according to a combination of stocks. If one sector of that index is on an upsurge, then the index most likely will be affected by this upsurge. I not saying that the markets don't move from human emotion. Of course they do. I also understand that the whole market in general in an auction process. Human emotion has more to do with an individual stock moving. In the auction process of stocks, the "other timeframe" traders have a big impact on manipulating the movement of stocks...as told to us by M.O.M. These "other timeframe" traders can affect how soybeans are trading, and the whole MP theory is directed toward that.

If you and every other person who trades the YM decides not to trade that day, the "volume" in the YM would essentially be zero. Right now the YM trades @250K contracts per day. I wouldn't say this is high volume by any means. The YM is still going to move up and down regardless if no one trades that day.

Soul Trader, you trade the YM...correct? When you speak of volume in the YM, what volume are you speaking of? Is it the traders that are trading the YM? I understand how profit works in the buying and selling structure of society. If you are trading the YM, you are buying and selling price movements of the YM. The YM moves according to what the stocks in that index are doing.

Thanks MC... This thread is not meant to be an argument. I am simply asking questions and would like the experts on this site to answer them. When you speak of volume...like in the ES...what volume are you talking about? People like you and I buying and selling contracts at different price levels? I understand perceived value at different levels. . .

thanks bh trade for your responses. First of all, I agree with your answers. Lets look at what they mean. 1) More aggressive buyers and sellers...ok. 2) The S&P moves according to the 500 stocks. So (in its most simple form) we could conclude that if 250 of these stocks were moving up more than the other 250 stocks were moving down...then the S&P 500 index would be moving up...right? 3) The ES, YM, and ER all move "basically" together because many of the stocks in these indexes are the same? I'm sure many of you experienced traders have watched the ES, YM, and ER at the same time. In fact, many of you watch them when you trade because often one will give you a signal that is slightly delayed from the others. Hence, helping with an entry or exit of a trade. Here is an interesting point ! ! !...pull up any day, and compare the ES, YM, and ER. It is quite obvious that they don't move exactly the same, but in general, they move in a similar path. On any given day, there are these sudden spikes in the market...either up or down. Why do ALL these indexes have the same spike? When one of these markets drops radically, they all do. If an auction had anything to do with their movement, this would not be possible. 4) Your answer to #4 was that the YM and ER also move according to the individual stocks in their index. 5) If the S&P is traded in the pit, then how can you say that the S&P moves according to the 500 stocks? It can't be both ways can it? 6) If the ES, YM and ER are all electronically traded, then what does volume have to do with how these markets move. The ES trades 2.5 million contracts a day, the YM and ER only trade 250 thousand contracts a day. Again, what does volume have to do with the ES, YM and ER moving. It doesn't. The ES, YM and ER are going to move according to what the stocks in these indexes are doing. If there is more up movement in these stocks than down movement, these indexes go up. I have been in an "auction market theory" live trading room in the last month to observe. I will not mention the site. While listening to the mediator explain auction market theory, we were watching the market footprint and volume at price as it was happening live. As he was explaining that the market auctions down when you have more selling than buying...the market started moving up. Let me tell you that there was a LOT more sellers than buyers on the screen, yet the market shot up. Someone in the trading room asked the mediator why this was happening? He would not answer the question. I witnessed this happening regularly. After watching this "price auction at price", it has nothing to do with the market moving up or down. This is my conclusion...please someone correct me if I am misinformed... The S&P moves according to the individual stocks. The pit traders are doing nothing but buying and selling at different price levels. They have no bearing on moving the market. The S&P will move up or down on its own. The pit traders are doing what we do at home except they are "in the action". If these pit traders didnt trade for any given day, the S&P will still move in accordance with the stocks in their index....just like the YM and ER are doing at that moment. If the pit traders could move the market, then the ES would NOT move the same as the YM and ER. Come on...this is common sense. Another interesting point...Have you ever listened to the auction process in the pit? It is obvious as the auctioneer is calling out the auction. Have you ever listened to what happens when the market suddenly sells off, or shoots up? The auctioneer stops talking. There is no way the auctioneer could talk that fast...let alone for anyone to understand him and be able to make a trade. If the "pit" was moving the market according to the footprint of buyers and sellers at a given price, then the actual auction would not be able to move up and down that quickly. Yes, the market would move up or down, but it would take a little longer for the auctioneer to move things along. Two new questions for you experts out there: 7) Are commodities, like soybeans, corn, gold, etc...traded by an auction? 8) Are any individual stocks in the ES, YM or ER indexes traded by an auction? After I get the answers to these two questions, I'll make my next points. By the way, I'm not discounting MP. .