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noego
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Posts posted by noego
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I'm not sure what I'm missing, but it seems that scalping is incredibly profitable with enough capital.Start with 3k
Open an account with Interactive Brokers.
If you find a stock that oscillates about .1 percent, you'll be making a minimum of a dollar profit every time you trade after spending about two dollars for a round trip purchase.
Let's say you trade once every minute, that pretty much guarantees you sixty dollars each hour and usually it's way more than that.
Imagine the same oscillations except with more base capital. 30k equals at least six hundred dollars each hour...that's 5.1k in a day. My parent's didn't make that much in a month.
So why don't many people scalp? When does it fail?
True scalping is something very few people (<3%) can successfully do long term. FACT. No offense...really, but what you are missing is the experience necessary to even frame the question. How would you possibly know when a "stock" is going to oscillate vs. trend out without really spending time learning the craft watching a live market. Also....as far as the $3k in an IB account, pattern day trading requires a minimum of $25k or you are limited to just a few round turns a week. "Guarantees" of ANYTHING in trading (profit per hour,day, week, month, year) are not only not possible but improbable. Traders who have earned their stripes simply take what the market gives based on their own reward/risk parameters/setups and nothing more or less. Again no offense to you or your question but your inexperience and current back testing method of finding a stock that "oscillates" a minimal amount are a recipe for disaster.
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Very well said Vaughn.
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So you changed your handle from light65536 to Predictor !That's snakey.
And still very successful by most measurable means.
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BTW here is a good consideration..Imagine you work for Levine as a sales rep. How much you think they make? I imagine they don't make a ton! Maybe some do.. But, the point is now let's say you find out that he has a room that generates 8k per month on only 5k accounts -- that's 96k per year.
What do you suspect you'd do? Hell, if I were you'd quit as soon as I got the money to go the room and go to room and make 100k per year. After 3 months you'd had 15k, you could do 200k your first year.
What they will say is.. but you're not expected to just blindly follow the room. blah blah.. I tell you 2 things:
#1 I consider myself one among the best in world at calling the market.
#2 If it really worked I would blatantly take every trade without thinking and without any ego. That's saying something!!
Some people will say "but what's wrong with this?" What's wrong with it is that its a lie. They are using that to get peoples money and its not true. People are spending thousands of dollars because of a lie. It is just like the con trick that the cold readers play on people. As James Randi would say, its not just harmless fun. It has potential to be very damaging. It is also detracts from what people who are actually achieving in the markets manage to do.
More over, as some people didn't focus on: I'm already very successful. There is no greater ill then to waste my time. If the claims are true then I would need to refocus my trading and consider more angles. I would be required to consider such a style because my capital base is low. If the claims, as likely, are false and lies then it would be a huge cost and a waste of my time.
Dude...you are a trip. If you spent half as much time working on watching the market and learning as you do trying to run others down you might be able to answer the questions yourself. I don't know the room of which you speak but I hope he doesn't have the pleasure of having you in the room. As a moderator myself, I find the blame game by inexperienced/poorly disciplined traders to be disgusting at best. You are responsible for your trading decisions. No one can make you a great trader. Period. Grow a pair and do your own work and then produce your results for the world to see. It would carry more weight than the "I am a very successful trader" garbage.
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First, let me start by stating that I'm a *very* successful trader. I am already more successful by measurable means then most.I honestly, think, it would be difficult to trade the ES for a living with even 100k. Most everything has told me one needs around 300k to trade for a living
a trader who claims that he/she is a successful trader need to, imho, already know answers to those two above questions/statements.... shouldn't he/she....?
in terms of reality, if you think that you are already a very successful trader.... great, congrats, more power to you....
mind you, there are miles and miles of significant differences between posting on c2 and trading live....; similarly there are also significant differences between backtesting and trading live signal.... they are altogether mutually exclusive....
if and when you already learn the ins and outs of trading real time and live.... you surely do not need 300k nor even 100k.... in your trading acct to trade profitably....
for those who are just learning how to trade.... not necessarily learning how to trade profitably and consistently yet.... these two concepts and practices are also significantly different.... as well....
another misconception about what a trader should receive in return at the end of the trading session, some say they expect 200 usd per day, some prefer 300 usd per day, some 500 usd per session.... so on and so forth.... of course, most of these questions are raised by not yet experienced traders.... for an experienced trader, he/she would take whatever the market would give for that particular session.... no more and no less.
another factor directly relates to the amount that one can expect as profit at the end of a trading session is.... what the trader puts at risk when he/she trades.... if you only trade one contract at a time, it is very difficult but not entirely impossible to take home 500 usd profit.... at the end of the trading session.... :missy:
if you have time, pls take a look at the attachment and see.... if the trader is successful or not.... he insists that he is still learning how to trade more proficiently.... :o
Well said...I made an abbreviated attempt to say the same thing above. The questions alone are enough to expose the inexperience. Now for the amounts. Yes it can be done ($5-10k is a stretch) but 100-300k is not necessary for the average person. Some start with that when learning and quickly get to trade with much less
....If you don't need a huge amount of monthly income (Huge is a relative term of course) you can successfully trade the futures markets with much less than the 100-300k. But you must know who you are as a trader and have an edge of some kind and unflinching discipline. That and real time LIVE market experience (thousands of hours of "forward testing"....that is predicting price action before the bars are there rather than reading the chart from right to left after the fact). Absent of those critical pieces, it does not matter what you have in your account. It probably won't be enough. A room with a true mentor type moderator will help you shave some of the time....a "system" being sold by anyone will seldom bear fruit. As I said in a previous post...every trader is different with varying degrees of skill, resources, and discipline. Find a simple approach, learn and trade one market and you have a shot. -
@bobcollett Avg hold is around 20 hours. You can see at C2: it does change. My old bread&butter was a 2-3 day trade. It tends to be around 20-30 hours.My associate does not use the scalping he room. He is very satisfied but trades in using the MP room.
It is rumored that Levine made his money by arbitraging the big contract against the mini. Arbitrage is basically profiting from the bid/ask spread. Most pit traders profited by capturing the spread, many times per day.
Very interested in more first hand experience, i.e not what is rumored or what one hopes or thinks or dreams. Has anyone scalp the ES or other futures with a 5k account and made 100k per year? Has anyone scalp the futures and made 100k per year with any size account? What size was needed?
It's not as much about account size as it skill.....a good trader (very few of those) can make money with a small account as it has more to do with discipline and money management than a "system". You must wait for proper setups and learn to sit on your hands for hours at a time. The questions you are asking tell most of us (taking some liberty here) that it won't matter how many contracts you trade or how big your account is...scalping your account will likely cause you to lose more than you make as it is the case with most traders....advice is to stop looking for someone to make your living calling trades and find a little edge that works for you under most conditions and exploit it. Just my 2 pennies. Not trying to be abrasive but I don't see a real way to answer your question as no two traders are alike and most of them suck.
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I think you are just another snake oil salesman using the questions as disguise to spam the forum.If you are so successful, why don't you become a paid sponsor of this board?
Maybe you can't afford the fees?
Agreed....this is not a discussion topic. A slam and promote. Dead Thread.
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Correction.....trading is not simple. The waiting and discipline is what should be simple yet very few folks find that to be fun and exciting so that was the basis for my comment. Trading is work. No doubt about it. There is no need to make it harder by slamming the buy/sell button everytime a candle changes color. Sorry for not clarifying.
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yes i agree - for most people trying to trade, they treat it like a form of gambling, it just easier and more fun to try and pick tops and bottoms instead of sitting down, putting together a risk-management plan, wait for the 1 or 2 trading opportunities, execute, and watch it for the exit. its just too much boring work! its more fun to buy and sell throughout the day! - mslkSo True....My favorite line is "I get paid to wait"......if you can do that and only look for quality PLANNED plays and MANAGE your money you have a chance to keep some of your money. Fail to do that and your resume will need to be updated. Very simple but very few actually do it.
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I like one but never more than 2 markets and I look at a few bigger time frames for reference and major patterns and pivots. I then use an entry chart with volume profile and delta study. If you can locate the critical areas you don't need much more than that nor do you need 12 monitors. I'm not sure how anyone can honestly say they can fully focus all day on that much information.
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No offense to you and your struggles but in the big scheme of things time-wise you are still in grade school as a trader. I am a trading educator (I do not solicit or take business from this or any other site so I am not tooting my horn---just giving an opinion from a vantage point that others may have missed). For most of us this is a lifetime labor of love. As with most difficult things becoming a professional can take +- 10,000 hours to gain true skill and competence. I am not saying you are or are not going to make this work. Most do not have the discipline to go along with the technical skills they gain so for some it doesnt matter if its 10,000, 20,000 or 50,000 hours of study. I truly wish you well in your trading and your study. I caution you not to focus on "system" over solid market technical skills across multiple time frames using volume and price action as your keys. This is where the time comes in...watching live markets for many hours days weeks months and years is the greatest lesson of all....charts are easy to read when they are not moving (right to left reads vs. left to right). Again good luck and good trading to you.
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Now that is funny. I don't care who you are.
Signed,
Larry the Cable Guy
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Well said Loustrar1...Those are great points. Those of us who have made it aren't heard by those who want the quick fix....I teach and coach trading and have to say that I lose a lot of clients when I tell them it will take time and effort and there is NOT a quick fix. The truth is not what most want to hear. Sadly. I have much better success with those that have not already be programmed by the courses that tout "work from home in your underwear for 30 minutes a day and live the life of your dreams"...
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Simple answers. Not everyone is cut out for it but everyone who trades think they are. Not everyone is willing to put the time in to learn and watch in a LIVE market (they spend their time back testing and looking at charts from right to left instead of from left to right). Not everyone is willing to admit that it is their lack of discipline to wait for proper setups that causes their huge draw downs. The 10% who make it have paid the price in time (10,000 hours or more) and money....They have EARNED it.
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No Offense....But are you really serious about trying to trade a $5k account by reading a few books and then not trying to gain some experience by simulating live trades under real market conditions first? Simulated trading has some limited benefit in learning your execution system and testing yourself to see if you will honor your trading plan and your patience. However, after awhile paper trading will hide your mental flaws as a trader because we all act differently under the pressure of the real trade with real cash. My advice, don't rush in and become the guy or gal that the rest of us neighborhood bullies pick on. There are only a very small few traders who really make it...the rest jump in and find out very quickly that they are in the majority who should have found something else to do with the $5k. Take your time and put in about 5000 hours watching live markets under the watchful eyes of someone who has been there. You will thank yourself many times over down the road. Good Luck.
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yes....what they said on the last two posts expounding on my comments. Excellent advice folks....10000 hours is absolutely correct. Learning to trade is a full time job.
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Hindsight and backtesting your "edge" are fine as the other posters above mentioned. The real issue is understanding overall market structure and changing with it. You are buying or selling based on lagging indicators which can stay overbought/oversold for longer than you can stay solvent. As one of the other posters mentioned you must be quicker to admit you are wrong. When a position your are in is not acting correctly based on the premise you used to enter the trade, a full stop out is not only not necessary but it is psychologically damaging to a trader. You don't have to be in the market all the time. Patience and discipline and better understanding of trend and change of trend will really help. Experienced traders were not trying to buy and hold long positions near the S & P 1220 level.
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Time for this thread to die. There will be no winners here. This is clearly not a forum where fair and honest critiques are given. Allowing this to continue on the part of the staff here has taken a fair and honest dialogue and watch it become Jerry Springer TV. No value for anyone at this point. I support the right of people to give a fair critique of any business. Slander and open use of the internet for self serving purposes should be snuffed out.
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This is simply another attack Kiwi....most people are NOT in the room to have their trades called for them. Most are there because he willingly teaches all day long and answers emails late into the night to truly assist other traders in becoming better. He preaches everyday to learn this stuff so that you can do it on your own in a market of YOUR choosing. Speaking without knowing for yourself is no different than those who defend. Take the time to observe for a month or two and see if the honesty about the market and the perils it provides those who do not take the time to learn before trading are not preached on a constant basis. I know Huddy would agree with me that there are some absolutely fantastic technicians out there. He readily admits to being good but not great or perfect. And he begs the members of his room to be selective and safe every single day. There are no "get rich" quick promises ever. Only the willingness to help others. I am disgusted by this entire thread.
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@Koifan, sorry to spill your enthuasm but Huddy is NO WAY a profitable trader. He lives solely on the (good) money he makes from "educating" others! You might learn a thing or two in his room, no question, but in the end it comes down to the point, can he make money solely trading?? I have seen him trade live (not just in the traderoom but executing live trades) and all he did was lose money, very consistently. He lost over 50k in probably about 6 weeks (while he was still posting positive results on his twitter page) and its not even the fact that he lost money, but the way he lost it. He did not follow his own rules, he constantly took 3-4 tick profits (only about 15% were winners, seriously) while losses were far bigger!!Anyway, I gotta run but after reading those positive posts about channel-trading and huddy it made me want to puke! I can prove that everything im saying here is nothing but the truth but let me ask you this? Did you ever SEE huddy execute 1 trade even on demo? Did you see his DOM putting his order in? Let alone he will NEVER EVER send you a trading statement. (Hey, I could send out a trading statement of him and you can compare that to his twitter posted trades and you would be shocked)!
You might think he´s a nice guy and maybe he is (i kinda liked him too) but one thing i know for sure, he does not live on trading but on "educating"! Choosing an "educator" that can not make money for himself?? hmm, maybe not so wise
I know Huddy very well. A decade of trading and learning from him. This post is not only untrue but a slander of a kind and well-meaning individual who ALWAYS puts his clients and friends before himself. There is simply no reason for anyone to post comments as inflammatory and derogatory about someone with whom they have no personal knowledge or experience with. He teaches in the room all day and the trades called in every case BEFORE price gets there. If the trade does not fill others in the room it does not post on TWITTER. Period. This slander should be removed. A fair review of the experience in the room is fine. A personal attack from a blind source is criminal and should be treated as such.
Why Don't Most Day Traders Scalp?
in Day Trading and Scalping
Posted
Jerry...I don't take offense. I will simply say this. I have been a professional trader for more than 15 years. I am not the best trader in the world nor do I claim to be anything but disciplined and profitable. I teach trading to 100's of people per year (and no I am not pimping my stuff-. I have a huge data set of proof from other traders as part of my training is evaluating their results. Most of the traders who try to scalp...(matching the number I posted about 3% or less being LONG TERM profitable scalping)...fail HUGE. I network in and through the broker world as part of my business and they all say the same thing....most traders put more money IN their accounts than they take out and the number that make a ton of round turns a day (scalpers) fail at a MUCH higher percentage than those who trade a few times a day. When they leave the broker for greener pastures it is usually with a very large draw down. Not me sayin'...Broker sayin'... The key in the FACT part is Long Term success. Every squirrel can find a nut or get on a hot streak in Vegas but at the end of the week, month, or year most scalpers cannot regularly pull a paycheck out of the market or their ass. Me Sayin' ....No Offense.